Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 August 9



Category:5th millennium BC in fiction

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  ℯ  xplicit  04:19, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:5th millennium BC in fiction to Category:Fiction set in prehistory
 * Nominator's rationale: merge to a more general category, since there is nothing in this fiction relating to historical events in the 5th millennium BC. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:26, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

- Merge as most of the other contents in the target are in the Sword and sorcery genre, which is more similar to Middle-Earth than straight caveman stuff. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:32, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep This is a category by era of setting, how does it not relate? Dimadick (talk) 06:26, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * epic delete The contents of this category is Tolkien's Middle Earth books. They are not set in the prehistory of the real earth. Mangoe (talk) 13:16, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I still think this is wrong, but in any case the books are already included as part of Category:Novels set in prehistory. Mangoe (talk) 15:35, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Mangoe makes a fair comment, there is nothing in this fiction relating to historical events in prehistory in general either, so I'm not opposing plain deletion. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:57, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Tolkien placed his Middle Earth in the prehistory of Earth and even estimated dates. "Tolkien said that he thought the time between the end of the Third Age and the 20th century AD was about 6,000 years, and that in 1958 it should have been around the end of the Fifth Age if the Fourth and Fifth Ages were about the same length as the Second and Third Ages. He said, however, in a letter written in 1958 that he believed the Ages had quickened and that it was about the end of the Sixth Age/beginning of the Seventh. " Dimadick (talk) 14:49, 11 August 2017 (UTC)


 * We shouldn't put fiction in a period just based on anyone's beliefs (even if it is the author's beliefs) if there is no connection with actual events in that period. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:23, 12 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete - The contents of this category is Tolkien's Middle Earth books. The contents do not fit in any age of this earth, whatever Tolkein may have suggested.  The societies he describes may bear a nostalgic view of early modern England (Shire) and medieval Europe (Gondor), but they are ultimately a Fantasy or fictional universe that fits with no age of this earth.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:03, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 * It fits prehistory, and the setting is our Earth, not a fictional universe. Dimadick (talk) 06:01, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That last is arguable, whatever Tolkien wrote in a single letter, and criticism in general has taken Middle Earth as a completely fantasized setting. After all, Tolkien provided a creation mythos perhaps consonant in theme to the Catholicism of his own faith (although perhaps owing more to Paradise Lost than doctrine), but quite unlike it in detail. And at that, he provides detailed historical timelines, which is essentially antithetical to prehistory. It's not out of line to take Middle-Earth as the progenitor of a new genre fusing sagas, traditional fantasy, Genesis, and medieval romances, but in any case it has nothing to do with works set in something resembling the real prehistory of mankind, to which Numenor and Beleriand bear no resemblance at all. Mangoe (talk) 18:32, 14 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Generally we do not categorize fantasy works that have no strong reference to our earth as set on our earth. I have long questioned periodization of fiction, but in Tolkien's case he clearly made no attempt to reflect historical reality of the period from 5000 BC to 4001 BC. He also clearly does not in more than an extremely lose sense reflect geography of the earth during this period. This is a bridge too far in categorization.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:49, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment Periodization by setting or periodization by release? Dimadick (talk) 16:50, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Periodization by setting. In fiction, especially fantasy and science fiction, the swetting often has no relationship to reality. Does 2001 A Space Odessy belong in the same category as a film on the attack on the World Trade Cetner on September 11th, 2001?John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:41, 27 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Lutheran revivals in Finland

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge.  ℯ  xplicit  04:19, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Lutheran revivals in Finland to Category:Lutheran revivals and Category:Church of Finland
 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, both this category and its Category:Lutheran revivals parent are very small. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:22, 9 August 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.