Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 December 2



P(a)ediatrics

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 08:12, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Pediatrics in Australia to Category:Paediatrics in Australia
 * Propose renaming Category:Pediatrics in the United Kingdom to Category:Paediatrics in the United Kingdom
 * Nominator's rationale: Local spelling in both Australia and the UK is "paediatrics" (cf the paediatricians subcats). Grutness... wha?   23:49, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Rename - perhaps this could have been a speedy of the bleeding obvious variety? JarrahTree 00:23, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The speedy criteria specifically exclude changes related to local variants of English. Grutness... wha?   00:29, 4 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Rename - correct British English spelling. However, that does not mean that the US category should be changed if it is the correct American spelling.  Peterkingiron (talk) 22:10, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Which is why I only proposed the UK and Australia categories :) Grutness... wha?   00:29, 4 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Dissolution of the Monasteries

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep.  ℯ  xplicit  00:32, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Dissolution of the Monasteries to Category:Monasteries suppressed under the English Reformation
 * Nominator's rationale The category's scope is restricted to just England; however the current title gives the impression of universal application. Also, to conform with similar categories such as Category:Monasteries suppressed under the Irish Reformation, Category:Monasteries suppressed under the Scottish Reformation and Category:Monasteries suppressed under the Icelandic Reformation. If this is successful, the main article, Dissolution of the Monasteries, should also be renamed to match. Am also open to an alternative of Category:Dissolution of the monasteries in England. At the very least, "Monasteries" ought not to be capitalised. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:53, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep – the article is correctly titled Dissolution of the Monasteries (which is the common name in England for what happened) and the category should follow suit. Oculi (talk) 17:54, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Query So would you support an alternative of Category:Dissolution of the monasteries in England? Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:22, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment if could be helpful to have the article renamed first. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:35, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Groan. OK. I'll nominate the article. It could be helpful if you visited the nomination. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:43, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep or add "in England" or "in England and Wales". This is a specifically an English category, but the present name is liable to pick up suppressions in other countries and at other times.  However purge: with the exceptions of alien priories suppressed during 100 years war and a few small ones used by Wolsey to endow an Oxford College, they were all dissolved in 1536-9, so that categorising them as dissolved is the same as categorising them as monasteries, quite apart from friaries not being monasteries.  Peterkingiron (talk) 22:31, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose, category renames do not lead, instead move the parent article and then rename categories to follow. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:23, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Since the RM does not seem to lead to the desired result, I support the nomination here, thus by exception prioritizing WP:C2C over WP:C2D. Moreover, it makes some sense that we do not regard Dissolution of the Monasteries to be the main article, since the article is about a topic (an event) while the category is about a set (of monasteries). Marcocapelle (talk) 22:34, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
 * "Since the RM does not seem to lead to the desired result"? Oppose this, categories should support articles, not become their own beast.  You can argue freely in the RM, but should respect the consensus there.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:18, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. Categories are navigational aids. This means that they should support, in a consistent way, navigation through similar topics (e.g. in Scotland, Iceland, Ireland, England). So while a particular topic might wish, for local reasons, to cling to a particular common name, nevertheless, the category may, for navigational purposes, diverge from that peculiar local name. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:24, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Categories lose their viability as navigation aids if they become de-coupled to the articles. The substance of the argument made here should be made in the RM on the article talk page. If this thing has parallels in other countries and other times (it does), then the article titles should reflect that. COMMONNAME is being used for local naming minimalism. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:51, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The RM Talk:Dissolution_of_the_Monasteries was just closed "not moved". "consensus that the current name is the commonly-used name for this event".  I think we agree that this is non-ideal.  COMMONNAME is overwhelmed by local use.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:10, 11 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hebrew Bible events

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete, after moving the main list and battles subcategory to Category:Hebrew Bible content. As noted, the remaining articles are already in one or more subcategories of the parent category. -- Black Falcon (talk) 06:15, 11 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting hebrew bible events


 * Nominator's rationale: delete, the category consists of an arbitrary selection of articles regarding the content of the Hebrew Bible, while nearly all of it is already in one of the more specific bible book categories. The only exceptions are the battles subcat and the list article, they should be moved to Category:Hebrew Bible content if this category is going to be deleted. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:47, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Support largely duplicates Hebrew Bible content. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:55, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment: This was first created in 2004 by user:IZAK as Category:Hebrew Bible/Tanakh events. It was probably better used initially, but now contains only 20 pages, including the more useful List of Hebrew Bible events which was started in 2005 by the same editor. The other contents are now all categorised in Bible books categories, so this category may no longer be necessary. If this category is not kept, its sub-cat Category:Hebrew Bible battles and that list must be moved up into Category:Hebrew Bible content as the nominator says. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:22, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment -- Apart from the battles which can be merged to the parent, this is a random list of articles on Biblical events.  I suspect that the  articles will be better categorise under the separate Bible books in which they appear.  Distribute contents where necessary and them delete.  Peterkingiron (talk) 22:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Counts of Aalst

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. -- Black Falcon (talk) 05:33, 11 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting counts of aalst


 * Propose deleting counts of ghent


 * Propose deleting lords of the four amts


 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:NONDEF, these are three subcategories of Category:Counts of Flanders but the specific titles are not even mentioned in the text of the articles that are in these categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:00, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Support Subordinate titles do not usually get categories. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:57, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete -- These 3 categories contain 2 articles on rulers OF Flanders which  are already in the Flanders  article.  Peterkingiron (talk) 22:50, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Cloud

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy delete G1. – Fayenatic  L ondon 00:41, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting cloud


 * Nominator's rationale: It isn't very clear what this even means, or why the recent U.S. tax bill is included. FallingGravity 07:38, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Strong delete This category doesn't make any sense and shouldn't exist. EMachine03 (talk) 17:44, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:National Hockey League first round draft picks

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. -- Black Falcon (talk) 05:30, 11 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting national hockey league first round draft picks


 * Nominator's rationale: Sorting by non-defining characteristic. We do not categorize any other sportspeople by what round of the draft they were drafted. TM 04:17, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Support. -- GoodDay (talk) 18:01, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose: ... which is an "other stuff doesn't exist" argument. So what?  It's a easily definable, not indiscriminate term, and athletes generally carry "He was a first round draft pick in 19xx" throughout their careers.  Is there a better rationale to delete than that?   Ravenswing   21:44, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * What part of non-defining characteristic is unclear?--TM 21:37, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The part where I disagree with your assertion that it's a non-defining characteristic, that's what.   Ravenswing   22:29, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose Being a first round draft pick is perhaps one of the most defining aspects of a professional hockey players career. -DJSasso (talk) 02:06, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Being drafted in the first round is significant for players. – Sabbatino (talk) 10:44, 6 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Arts organizations based in New Zealand

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy rename C2E. – Fayenatic  L ondon 00:34, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Arts organizations based in New Zealand to Category:Arts organisations based in New Zealand
 * Nominator's rationale: per parent "organisations in NZ" category and local spelling norms. Grutness... wha?   02:55, 2 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:58, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Oculi (talk) 17:54, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support I created the category and should have used NZ English - I've obviously spent too much time in the US! Thanks Grutness for requesting the rename. Slafayette (talk) 22:02, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support  -NZ  does not use US spellings.  Peterkingiron (talk) 22:45, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.