Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 February 24



Category:United States speculative presidential candidates, 2016

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.   czar  17:12, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting united states speculative presidential candidates, 2016


 * Nominator's rationale: Same creator as Category:United States speculative presidential candidates, 2020. This is not a defining characteristic. For those who actually entered the race, we have Category:United States presidential candidates, 2016. And "Potential candidates who did not run" are already listed at the appropriate pages (Democratic Party presidential candidates, 2016, Republican Party presidential candidates, 2016, etc. Neutralitytalk 23:56, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete no solid basis and not a defining characteristic Snuggums (talk / edits) 05:04, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:44, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Speculated by whom? Based on what? Being a speculated candidate in the 2016 election is not a defining characteristic. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:41, 25 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:United States speculative presidential candidates, 2020

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. There may or may not be case for an article about speculation on possible 2020 candidates, but that's a separate issue. In the meantime, there is clear consensus that  this WP:CRYSTAL exercise is not a WP:DEFINING attribute of the people so categorised. And it's WP:SNOWing here. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:30, 25 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting united states speculative presidential candidates, 2020


 * Nominator's rationale: BLP, not defining, speculation or original research (it's like some Wikipedia is making predictions about peoples lives, and even if it's from some report, it's obviously speculation and not defining -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 21:07, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Absolutely delete per WP:CRYSTAL and WP:OR. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:10, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * per your own links: "All articles about anticipated events must be verifiable, and the subject matter must be of sufficiently wide interest that it would merit an article if the event had already occurred. It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced. It is not appropriate for editors to insert their own opinions or analyses. Predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be included" The forecasts and theories are verifiable, running for president is of wide interest, speculation with sources are allowable.MeropeRiddle (talk) 00:34, 25 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete I was just combing through the filing instructions to nominate this category myself. The creator has tagged pretty much any American politician who is alive at the moment, it is an indiscriminate scattershot ranging from Hillary Clinton (she has not stated a desire to run) to Bernie (he'd be 80!) to Val Demings, a 2-term House Rep. A newspaper with a "what if...?" column about 2020 aspirations is not a defining characteristic to categorize people. ValarianB (talk) 21:28, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Per WP:CRYSTAL"All articles about anticipated events must be verifiable, and the subject matter must be of sufficiently wide interest that it would merit an article if the event had already occurred. ...Predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be included" Presidential aspirations are notable, presidential candidates are of wide interest. No opinion of the editor was inserted.MeropeRiddle (talk) 00:38, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Each subject had at least two articles written in regards to their potential 2020 candidacy, published sources exist for all of them, and they are referenced in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2020MeropeRiddle (talk) 23:14, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Agree with Muboshgu. It also appears to be original research. 32.218.39.243 (talk) 21:34, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose These are candidates where there is documented speculation regarding their 2020 candidacy. This is not a user doing the speculated, this is where there is documented speculation regarding their candidacy. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2020MeropeRiddle (talk) 21:54, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, sorry, crap musings from primarily clickbait and blogs is just not defining. Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:37, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The sources are like THIRTEEN WOMEN WHO SHOULD THINK ABOUT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IN 2020. Including this sort of info would be more suitable to the 2020 election page, there's just nothing that ties these people together categorically. TheValeyard (talk) 23:32, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entitiesare allowable per WP:CRYSTAL, What exactly is wrong with an article about thirteen women that should run for president?MeropeRiddle (talk) 00:47, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The fact that it's crap musings. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 04:43, 25 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete, not a defining characteristic of these politicians. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:10, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per others, there's really nothing that stitches these people together other than an article that wonders if they'll run. TheValeyard (talk) 23:32, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete violates WP:CRYSTAL and has no verifiable basis at the moment Snuggums (talk / edits) 23:29, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Per WP:CRYSTAL"All articles about anticipated events must be verifiable, and the subject matter must be of sufficiently wide interest that it would merit an article if the event had already occurred. ...Predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be included" Presidential aspirations are notable, presidential candidates are of wide interest. No opinion of the editor was inserted.MeropeRiddle (talk) 00:40, 25 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment User is delving into the past as well, creating one of these for 2016. I don't know how to link it as it wants to add this discussion to the category if I preview this edit. Just search their edit history. Plain text - "Category:United States speculative presidential candidates, 2016". TheValeyard (talk) 23:41, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per everybody else and WP:CRYSTAL. Unverifiable and speculative; hundreds of names could be added to this cat. Kill it now before it proliferates. --Seduisant (talk) 01:40, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Adding to the chorus of objections per WP:CRYSTAL. But how did this template even get this far? It admits to being speculative, which we don't do. And sources at this point are a bit hinky too: because they're usually just some writer's opinion piece. Not much to go on. At best, we should probably table this template for a couple years. Otherwise this is likely to get out of hand very quickly. For some, it already has. X4n6 (talk) 05:16, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - not a defining characteristic. Neutralitytalk 06:31, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete – very unlikely a defining characteristic for any politician. Politrukki (talk) 10:27, 25 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sig Sauer P227

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 02:19, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting sig sauer p227


 * Nominator's rationale: Cat created for a single page; unclear that anything else would ever go here. — swpb T 20:24, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:United States presidential candidates, 2020
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.   czar  17:28, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting united states presidential candidates, 2020


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:TOOSOON. There are no declared candidates in the 2020 U.S. presidential election, including Trump. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:55, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose, There are declared candidates. Trump declared in January 2017.MeropeRiddle (talk) 20:41, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete, there are no candidates. Some statement about a future candidacy is not a defining characteristic of a politician. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:13, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Individuals included in this section have their own Wikipedia page and either formally announced their candidacy or filed as a candidate with Federal Election Commission (FEC) (for other than exploratory purposes). Your opinion on their candidacy being a 'musing' is your own speculation, and is not relevant to the purpose of the category which is actual registered candidates that have their own wikipedia page.MeropeRiddle (talk) 23:09, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The first source encountered was https://ballot-access.org/2017/01/10/rocky-de-la-fuente-tells-court-that-he-plans-to-seek-democratic-party-nomination-for-president-in-2020, so it wasn't too speculative from my side. Anyway it's not a defining characteristic in this stage. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:13, 25 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete too soon without any official announcements <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 23:35, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete not needed before the 2018 midterms. TOOSOON/CRYSTAL.  p  b  p  23:43, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Dead astronauts
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:37, 5 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting dead astronauts


 * Nominator's rationale: Simple intersection of profession and not living_people; no precedent for other professions Jason A. Quest (talk) 18:47, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete we don't categorize dead people by profession. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:10, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Same user created this too.  Lugnuts  Precious bodily fluids 10:52, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Neutralitytalk 01:31, 26 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Planetary systems by number of confirmed planets
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. This close is no bar to early re-nomination as suggested below. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:06, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting planetary systems by number of confirmed planets


 * Nominator's rationale: What is the use of this? Do we need categories for all numbers of all things? Isambard Kingdom (talk) 14:01, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete. Frankly, how many planets there are in a system is currently a matter of speculation and guesswork (even moreso than the number in our own), not a defining characteristic of verifiable fact. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 19:02, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep if we are keeping Category:Planetary systems with three confirmed planets‎ etc, then we may as well retain the organising category for categories. Perhaps the wrong thing has been nominated here, and the CategoryPlanetary systems with X confirmed planets‎ categories were intended to be deleted, with X from one to eight. We may as well delete the category for eight, as there are no articles in it . For these categories information could easily change over time as more planets are found in a system, so I do agree that the information is non defining. The category for "one" is pretty useless, as most will be like that. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:49, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, the original CfD was the Category:Planetary systems with eight confirmed planets, which is being discussed here (I wrote there my opinion about that case). I created yesterday that category, and added the Solar System (as the first of a list which will obviously grow shortly). The nominator opted for adding the parent category (this one) for deletion (which is an interesting debate, in my opinion), so here we are. Eynar Oxartum (talk) 23:26, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment. I don't have a firm opinion about this (yet). Of course, the number of planets discovered in planetary systems will keep growing a little, although I do not expect it to be very high. The number of planets might be weak as a defining characteristic of a planetary system (but it can be of interest), and also depends on the source (some researchers will accept evidence about some planets, while others will not), and the definition of a planet (we all know that until 2006 the Solar System included Pluto, and what happened later). However, it might be of interest keeping track of a way to differentiate in some way "big" and "small" planetary systems, as it is done for star systems (see below). I am interested in reading the opinions of other contributors before I make my mind. Meanwhile, independently of the fact if this category (and its subcategories) should be kept, I have researched a bit about the use of categories of "* with # elements" (and similar). I have found several, and in many subjects, here are some examples (there are more):
 * The most relevant for this case is the category for star systems (groups of stars, not necessarily including planets). You can find Category:Multiple star systems, which includes subcategories Category:Binary stars, and Category:Triple star systems.
 * Category:Singers with a three-octave vocal range, and subsequent numbers of octave upto Category:Singers with a six-octave or greater vocal range, all part of Category:Singers by voice type
 * Category:Film articles with one associated task force, and subsequent numbers upto Category:Film articles with four or more associated task forces, all subcategories of Category:WikiProject Film task force usage; these categories however are a sort of maintenance categories.
 * Commons includes a huge number of categories like Category:Flags by number of stars, and similar for flags. Just to give another example, see Category:Flags with animals by number. However, the elements in a flag are quite defining in a flag, and also are objective, not depending on the opinion of a researcher or a definition. Also it is noticeable that categories in Commons might have a different goal that here.
 * In a similar, quantifying style, falls Category:Nobel laureates with multiple Nobel awards. It could be split in those having two, and those having three (International Committee of the Red Cross being so far the only one having three).
 * Category:5 ft 6 in gauge railways, and similar. I am not an expert in railways, but there are lots of categories like this included in Category:Broad gauge railways by size. Perhaps it is important in this context; anyway, I leave it here for consideration.
 * Category:Knots and links by crossing number, and its subcategories.
 * Category:Multi-engine aircraft, has categories from Category:Twin-engined aircraft to Category:Fourteen-engined aircraft (skipping odd numbers higher than five).
 * Category:Polycyclic organic compounds, includes Category:Heterocyclic compounds (2 rings) to Category:Heterocyclic compounds (4 or more rings).
 * So, this is the current usage for these cases. Draw your own conclusions! Eynar Oxartum (talk) 23:13, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The number of items found to date in a location is not defining in the way that the design parameters of an aircraft, train, knot, or chemical are.
 * Replying the previous unsigned comment: is an opinion, and I agree with the first part. For example, it would be of little use classifying countries by number of capital cities. Even if a country has not an official capital, it is still a country. However, a planet is not any random item for a planetary system: if a planetary system has no planets, then it is not a planetary system. To avoid overcategorisation, I am more inclined to merge together subcategories having four or more planets, in a similar way as Category:Heterocyclic compounds (4 or more rings). That would make the category more stable as new, larger planetary systems are discovered. I am more interested however in discussing if it would be of interest having categories such as Planetary systems including terrestrial planets, or Planetary systems including planets in the habitable zone, for example, which would be meaningful for other scientific reasons (however, I know, this is not the place to discuss that). Eynar Oxartum (talk) 12:09, 25 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep I think having a category for multiple systems sort of like Category:Multiple star systems is a more sensible option: you don't have to create new categories (if multi-planet systems past 8 are confirmed), or when new planets around existing systems are discovered, then you don't have to re-categorize it, just add a new sortkey. Loooke (talk) 02:58, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment: I think it's worthwhile having categories for systems with large numbers of known planets. It's certainly valuable for navigation to find e.g. other systems with six or seven planets. On the other hand, there is very little value in the low numbers; the number of systems with one or two known planets is huge and there's no obvious reason why anyone would use those categories. I'm unsure whether we should draw a line somewhere, and if so where it should be. Having this category above the others does make sense. <b style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:maroon;">Modest Genius</b> talk 11:54, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete: not a particularly useful category, especially since the number is subject to change over time. Praemonitus (talk) 19:22, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Procedural keep per User:Graeme Bartlett. A fresh nomination for this category in conjunction with its subcategories would be a suitable next step. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:32, 3 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:House of Abhakara
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: insufficient consensus to merge, so rename . – Fayenatic  L ondon 06:35, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:House of Abhakara to Category:Abhakara family
 * Nominator's rationale: Also:


 * Category:House of Benbadhana → Category:Benbadhana family
 * Category:House of Bhanubandh → Category:Bhanubandh family
 * Category:House of Chakrabongse → Category:Chakrabongse family
 * Category:House of Chatrajaya → Category:Chatrajaya family
 * Category:House of Chitrabhongse → Category:Chitrabhongse family
 * Category:House of Chudadhut → Category:Chudadhut family
 * Category:House of Dhevakul → Category:Devakula family (this one is also a typo)
 * Category:House of Disakul → Category:Disakul family
 * Category:House of Chirapravati → Category:Chirapravati family
 * Category:House of Jayanta → Category:Jayanta family
 * Category:House of Kitiyakara → Category:Kitiyakara family
 * Category:House of Malakul → Category:Malakul family
 * Category:House of Paribatra → Category:Paribatra family
 * Category:House of Pramoj → Category:Pramoj family
 * Category:House of Rajani → Category:Rajani family
 * Category:House of Rangsit → Category:Rangsit family
 * Category:House of Savastivatana → Category:Savastivatana family
 * Category:House of Vorawan → Category:Vorawan family
 * Category:House of Vudhijaya → Category:Vudhijaya family
 * Category:House of Yukol → Category:Yukol family
 * Category:House of Sundarakul na Jolburi → Category:Sundarakul na Jolburi family

No reliable sources appear to use the "House of Name" construct for Thai royally descended families. Google Books searches reveal some results for "Name family", but almost none for "House of Name" (and the Google web results that turn up for "House of Name" are almost entirely Wikipedia mirrors). Paul_012 (talk) 11:58, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge all into one per WP:NONDEF and WP:SMALLCAT e.g. to Category:Members of Chakri dynasty branches or Category:Members of Thai royally descended families or Category:Chakri dynasty. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:01, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Upmerging to Chakri dynasty would only be appropriate for articles whose subjects are also royalty, i.e. of mom chao rank and above. I'm not quite sure how NONDEF and SMALLCAT should apply to some of these (e.g. the Paribatra cat, currently with six members), given that we have plenty of family categories. (Compare others under Category:Thai families.) Even if merging is preferred I would still like some agreement on the proper format, since these categories are currently underpopulated and several would obviously warrant inclusion when more articles have been created. --Paul_012 (talk) 22:07, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: If the above suggestion is followed, the categories should be deleted rather than upmerging, since the appropriate articles are already categorised under the Chakri dynasty cat. Also, the suggestion isn't applicable to the Sundarakul na Jolburi cat, which is unrelated to the Chakri dynasty. --Paul_012 (talk) 21:04, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding this. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:35, 3 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Years in Northern+Southern California
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering 11:52, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging:
 * Category:20th century in Northern California to Category:20th century in California
 * Category:21st century in Northern California to Category:21st century in California
 * Category:21st century in Southern California to Category:21st century in California
 * Category:20th century in Southern California to Category:20th century in California


 * Category:2000s in Northern California to Category:2000s in California‎
 * Category:2000 in Northern California to Category:2000 in California‎
 * Category:2002 in Northern California to Category:2002 in California‎
 * Category:2003 in Northern California to Category:2003 in California‎
 * Category:2004 in Northern California to Category:2004 in California‎
 * Category:2005 in Northern California to Category:2005 in California‎
 * Category:2006 in Northern California to Category:2006 in California‎
 * Category:2007 in Northern California to Category:2007 in California‎
 * Category:2008 in Northern California to Category:2008 in California‎
 * Category:2009 in Northern California to Category:2009 in California‎
 * Category:2010s in Northern California to Category:2010s in California‎
 * Category:2011 in Northern California to Category:2011 in California‎
 * Category:2012 in Northern California to Category:2012 in California‎
 * Category:2013 in Northern California to Category:2013 in California‎
 * Category:2014 in Northern California to Category:2014 in California‎
 * Category:2015 in Northern California to Category:2015 in California‎
 * Category:2016 in Northern California to Category:2016 in California‎
 * Category:2017 in Northern California to Category:2017 in California‎
 * Category:1980s in Northern California to Category:1980s in California‎
 * Category:1980 in Northern California to Category:1980 in California‎
 * Category:1982 in Northern California to Category:1982 in California‎
 * Category:1983 in Northern California to Category:1983 in California‎
 * Category:1984 in Northern California to Category:1984 in California‎
 * Category:1986 in Northern California to Category:1986 in California‎
 * Category:1987 in Northern California to Category:1987 in California‎
 * Category:1988 in Northern California to Category:1988 in California‎
 * Category:1989 in Northern California to Category:1989 in California‎
 * Category:1990s in Northern California to Category:1990s in California‎
 * Category:1991 in Northern California to Category:1991 in California‎
 * Category:1993 in Northern California to Category:1993 in California‎
 * Category:1994 in Northern California to Category:1994 in California‎
 * Category:1995 in Northern California to Category:1995 in California‎
 * Category:1996 in Northern California to Category:1996 in California‎
 * Category:1997 in Northern California to Category:1997 in California‎
 * Category:1998 in Northern California to Category:1998 in California‎
 * Category:1999 in Northern California to Category:1999 in California‎
 * Category:2000s in Southern California to Category:2000s in California‎
 * Category:2010s in Southern California to Category:2010s in California‎
 * Category:1900s in Southern California to Category:1900s in California‎
 * Category:1910s in Southern California to Category:1910s in California‎


 * Nominator's rationale: Wikipedia has very extensive coverage of California, and the state's population of ~39 million is about the same as the combined total of the 14 smallest members states of the European Union. So I can see a case for splitting the California-wide by-year/decade/century categories.  However, I don't think that this Northern California/Southern California divide is a good way to do it:
 * Splitting California into two subsections won't make a huge difference to the size of the categories. A more significant difference is already made by the already-extant subcategories for the major population centres of Los Angeles and San Francisco, and 5 other cities (see e.g. Category:20th century in California by city). Those cities are the state's major hubs of economic and cultural activity (and hence of notable events), so the intermediate North/South split won't add much to the benefits of by-city categorisation.
 * These are informal regions, so the boundary between Southern and Northern CA is ill-defined. That's a recipe for headaches, and for disputes between good-faith editors.
 * A split which doesn't reflect administrative divisions will lead to many categorisation dilemmas, as editors struggle to agree just how much an event is linked to one half of the state while they decide whether to categorise it under Northern CA, Southern CA, or in the parent all-CA category, or in more than one of the three.
 * This category scheme is still relatively young and undeveloped, so I thought it best to seek a consensus on its fate now, before more work is done to build it. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:06, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

The by-year/decade/century categs for state regions are unique to California. In the case of Texas, Maryland, New York, and Florida the sub-region categories are used solely as containers for other geographical categories: their contents are solely "Foo County" or similar. In the acseof New Jersey, and  have no subcats. So for example, there is no or. is similarly a geographical container (aprt from the years/decades/centuries), but has a wider range of subcats: people, history, transportation. The scheme is not fully developed, but it has moved beyond geography. However, what I am proposing here is solely to upmerge the by-year/decade/century categories. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:41, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Categories all tagged, in these edits. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:28, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * WikiProject California has been notified. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:49, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Pinging @UW Dawgs, who created the higher level categories, and also Gjs238], @[[User:Le Deluge|Le Deluge, and @PanchoS, who created the sub-categories. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:58, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge unless - I must admit I was never that keen on these categories, I reluctantly created one of the decade ones to be tidy when it seemed inevitable that people were going with it. I'm not absolutely opposed to the split, but I'd be 75-25 in favour of merging unless someone can convince me otherwise.Le Deluge (talk) 12:05, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Question - Is there precedent for dividing other US states this way? I see for example Category:North Jersey and Category:South Jersey. Gjs238 (talk) 15:39, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * As a non-USian I'm aware of Northern/Southern California as being a "thing", but I've not heard of other states being split like this IRL. I'd also add the comment that North/South Jersey may make sense locally but probably don't belong on a global encyclopedia where they can be confused with the "original" Jersey.Le Deluge (talk) 18:00, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Defer Any categories which I created for missing years were done per the existing conventions. I have no opinion on whether that is appropriate or should be changed. UW Dawgs (talk) 16:47, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Texas - I see that Texas is also split: East Texas and West Texas / Category:West Texas. Gjs238 (talk) 22:16, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Maryland: Western Maryland / Category:Western Maryland and Southern Maryland / Category:Southern Maryland. Gjs238 (talk) 22:55, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * New York: Central New York / Category:Central New York and Western New York / Category:Western New York. Gjs238 (talk) 23:02, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Florida: Central Florida / Category:Central Florida, North Florida / Category:North Florida, South Florida / Category:South Florida Gjs238 (talk) 23:13, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment Thanks to @Le Deluge and @Gjs238 for their notes above.  However, I think they are pointing to something slightly different to what is under discussion here. This nomination covers only the by-year/decade/century categories, not their North/South parent categories.
 * Question - I understand Northern California and Southern California are a mega-regions. Does this definition make it a kind of province or sub-state, or it is just technical?GreyShark (dibra) 21:29, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * @Greyshark09: I don't know the answer to that, but I don't see how it is relevant to the decision here. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:35, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, of course it is relevant to my opinion - if Northern/Southern division is simply geographical, i see no reason to object the merger. However, if Northern/Southern California division is based on administrative boundaries - there are reasons to keep those categories.GreyShark (dibra) 11:09, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Support, a split in only two categories is not ideal anyway, let's only do this when it is really necessary (i.e. only when there are two formal subdivisions). Marcocapelle (talk) 23:40, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge Especially since no one can say definitevly if Fresno belongs in this category, and Bakersfield's inclusion is also debatable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:50, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge - not a useful division, even if used frequently culturally. more useful is subdivisions of los angeles area and san francisco bay area, but not this one.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 16:27, 29 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

1 (number)
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep, at least for now. First categories like Category:11 and Category:6 establishments should be nominated on this platform for rename to AD format. If and after those categories are renamed, a new discussion about the four categories below is possible. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 11:56, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:1 (number) to Category:1
 * Propose renaming Category:2 (number) to Category:2
 * Propose renaming Category:3 (number) to Category:3
 * Propose renaming Category:4 (number) to Category:4
 * Nominator's rationale: Pages 1 (number)– 9 (number) were recently moved to 1–9 as the primary topic after an RfC and RM. As such, the categories should reflect this. The target names are currently empty and years are at Category:AD 1, etc. I'm not particularly sure why this was declined as a speedy. Laurdecl talk 05:38, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

I would argue that for categorisation purposes, the primary usage of a number <= ~2030 is as a year, per Category:Years. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:14, 23 February 2017 (UTC) However, these proposed moves would increase ambiguity, without any apparent benefit for readers or editors. So I will not withdraw my oppose, and will not take this out of the oppose section, because I still think it needs a full discussion (where I will oppose it unless and until persuaded by arguments). If you don't feel up to starting that full discussion, I would be happy to open it for you. Per usual practice, I would omit any rationale, but copy this discussion in full for editors to read the background. Please let me know if you would like me to do that. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:53, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Category:1 (number) to Category:1 – C2B/C2D: see Talk:2 (disambiguation). Laurdecl talk 07:15, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Category:2 (number) to Category:2 – C2B/C2D: see Talk:2 (disambiguation). Laurdecl talk 07:15, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Category:3 (number) to Category:3 – C2B/C2D: see Talk:2 (disambiguation). Laurdecl talk 07:15, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Category:4 (number) to Category:4 – C2B/C2D: see Talk:2 (disambiguation). Laurdecl talk 07:15, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. @Laurdecl: C2D does not apply here, because there is ambiguity. So this needs a full discussion.
 * You do realise that the target categories are empty (years are at Category:AD 1)? This is the outcome of an RfC and the RM above that determined numbers as the primary topic. C2B applies because there is unnecessary disambiguation. If you could move this back, it would be appreciated; I don't really have the time to start a CfD. Laurdecl talk 06:11, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
 * @Laurdecl: yes, I do realise that the year categories in this range have an "AD" prefix. I note that the RFC at Talk:AD_1/Archive 1 had little or no discussion of categories, and that followup (non-RFC) the discussion at Talk:AD_1 was sparsely attended and not apparently accompanied by any tagging of the categories or even a notice at WT:CAT and/or WT:CFD. I think it is wrong that they were moved without CFD, but per WP:IAR it was the right outcome, because it reduces ambiguity.

Those year categories were renamed from the bare number to use an AD prefix (e.g. Category:4 → Category:AD 4) after a poorly-attended discussion at Talk:AD 1. This was a followup to an RFC which led to the renaming of the articles. The categories should not have been renamed without a CFD discussion, and should have been properly tagged etc, but I generally support reducing ambiguity in category names, so I accept the result. However, putting the number category into the recently vacated slot will lead to miscategorisation. So instead of these proposed renames, Category:1, Category:2, Category:3 and Category:4 should be become disambiguation pages using category ambiguous. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:12, 24 February 2017 (UTC) WP:C2D (concordance between a particular category's name and a related page's name) applies only if the related page's current name (and by extension, the proposed name for the category) is unambiguous. In this case, the number is the primary topic, but it is ambiguous ... and ambiguous category names cause categorisation errors. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:39, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose per the reasons I set out at speedy, above: that the bare number is ambiguous with the year categories which occupied that slot until 2 months ago, and removing the disambiguator will lead to miscategorisation. (It's odd that the nominator didn't take in the explanation at speedy, but there we are).
 * Pinging who moved the categories, so they can explain. Laurdecl talk 06:23, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Support (pinged) – This move looks obvious to me. Two well-attended RfC in August–October 2016 and October–December 2016 determined that articles titled 1 to 100 should not be about years any longer. Accordingly they were moved to AD 1…AD 100, after much preparatory work and cleanup. More recently, it was debated whether those article titles should be about numbers or should be disambig pages. Two RfCs decided that 1…10 have the numbers as primary topic, so that 1 (number)…10 (number) were moved accordingly. Soon there will be further discussions about titles 11 to 100, which until now are either dab pages or legacy pointers to the years. The categories should follow article naming, as determined by careful and wide-ranging editor discussion. I moved the AD categories in that spirit, I wasn't really aware of the CFD process and I'm sorry for not going through this — I thought category names followed automatically the outcomes of article titling RfCs — and some regulars here have noted it was the correct thing to do per WP:IAR. — JFG talk 09:02, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The article names were clearly decided through a well-attended RFC process, but only 2 editors supported the decision to rename categories. As above, I think renaming the year categories has worked out well, but a decision of two editors in a poorly advertised and attended discussion is not a consensus for moving the year categories, which is why this discussion here is needed.
 * Oppose – Category:1 is to be a number and Category:11 a year? That is absurd. I am not in favour of the existence of either Category:1 or Category:11 as numbers or years as the name is barely comprehensible without some sort of clue. Oculi (talk) 10:03, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Category:11 should not be a year. It's a legacy category from the time before early AD years were moved to AD 1…AD 100. In my opinion it should be deleted. The appropriate year category should be Category:AD 11, containing events that happened in that year, but I see it was recently moved back to the Category:11 title; pinging for input. — JFG talk 09:43, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * You seem to have quit there, and walked away to work on other things. There's no record in the logs that Category:AD 12 was ever created. Several navigation templates needed to be updated in coordination with these moves, as I've pointed out at Talk:AD 1. Only a week ago, I updated BDYearsInDecade, Decade category header, Template:Years in century/row, BDYearsInDecade and Year by category. I have no objection to moving more categories for AD 11 and beyond, if it's done without breaking things. The templates need to still work properly. Moving categories has never been a priority of mine, and I've only done this work as I felt compelled to pick up dropped balls. Of course, this CfD is happening less than 10 days after I deleted those categories, which had been left hanging as soft-redirects because of the unfinished template work. wbm1058 (talk) 14:07, 25 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose substantially along the lines of Oculi; numbers have traditionally been located at "digits (number)" whilst years have been just the digits. Categories should match unless there is some overriding reason not to, and none has been suggested. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:24, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * and : The number pages have been moved. 1 (number) is now a redirect to 1. This CfD is to make the categories match the articles. Laurdecl talk 21:50, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I am aware that the pages have been moved. The names are ambiguous wherever the pages are and category names cannot sustain ambiguity. Oculi (talk) 23:22, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * There are also pages Category 1, Category 2, Category 3, which increases the confusion. Oculi (talk) 09:07, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * You say the categories should match the pages and that is what this CfD is for. Do you mean to support? Laurdecl talk 07:26, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose, for now. Too soon. This is pushing too close up against categories such as Category:6 establishments (which is not about the establishment of "6" as a number) and Category:6 by continent. We need a larger buffer zone of ambiguity. wbm1058 (talk) 14:07, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Logically, Category:6 establishments and friends should be renamed Category:AD 6 establishments… — JFG talk 21:28, 25 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Strong support Categories should follow article names. P p p e<big style="position:relative;top:10px">r y 23:43, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:C2D makes clear that this is not automatic when ambiguity arises. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:31, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * C2D is a speedy renaming criteria, it has nothing to do with this CfD. Laurdecl talk 07:22, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * A renaming criterion has no bearing on a rename proposal? Cfd will have to be rethought. Oculi (talk) 11:41, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
 * C2D is a speedy renaming criteria, it has nothing to do with this CfD. Laurdecl talk 08:18, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose: I find myself agreeing with the comments of BrownHairedGirl. Also, the article 1 is about the number "one", whereas the articles in category:1 (number) are predominantly articles dealing with some aspect of "oneness") so there is no one-to-one (ahem!) correspondence between the subject matter of those two pages thus no need for an identical title. (Since it has been mentioned, I would support further changes such as "37" to "AD 37" for years in the first century and within closely related pages such as the year categories there is some inconsistency between usage of "AD 6" and "6 AD" style: usage in the pages should follow the titles and thus be consistent.) --Mirokado (talk) 21:33, 27 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Astronomical objects discovered
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. – Fayenatic  L ondon 06:53, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Astronomical objects discovered in the 2nd century to Category:Astronomical objects known since antiquity‎
 * Propose merging Category:Astronomical objects discovered in the 4th century to Category:Astronomical objects known since antiquity‎
 * Propose merging Category:Astronomical objects discovered in the 10th century to Category:Astronomical objects discovered in the Middle Ages and Category:10th century in science
 * Propose merging Category:Astronomical objects discovered in the 11th century to Category:Astronomical objects discovered in the Middle Ages and Category:11th century in science
 * Propose merging Category:Astronomical objects discovered in the 12th century to Category:Astronomical objects discovered in the Middle Ages and Category:12th century in science
 * Propose merging Category:Astronomical objects discovered in the 13th century to Category:Astronomical objects discovered in the Middle Ages and Category:13th century in science
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently only 2 articles per category, on average. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:32, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Upmerge per nom. The first item in the first category is said to have been known "at least since", it was included in a star chart publication in the 2nd century, but we have no clear indication that astronomers before then didn't know of it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:54, 26 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Medieval chess
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge all. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 22:00, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:10th century in chess to Category:Medieval chess
 * Propose merging Category:11th century in chess to Category:Medieval chess
 * Propose merging Category:12th century in chess to Category:Medieval chess
 * Propose merging Category:13th century in chess to Category:Medieval chess
 * Propose merging Category:14th century in chess to Category:Medieval chess
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently only 2 articles per category, on average. Articles may also be moved to the corresponding century category if they aren't already in that tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:32, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Chess took on its modern rules in 15th century, before then it's not really the same game. MaxBrowne (talk) 09:57, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


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Princeton University alumni by decade
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:10, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging all decade categories to Category:Princeton University alumni (full list below--make it collapsible if you think 27 is too many):


 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1750–59
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1760–69
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1770–79
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1780–89
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1790–99
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1800–09
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1810–19
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1820–29
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1830–39
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1840–49
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1850–59
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1860–69
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1870–79
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1880–89
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1890–99
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1900–09
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1910–19
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1920–29
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1930–39
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1940–49
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1950–59
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1960–69
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1970–79
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1980–89
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 1990–99
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 2000–09
 * Category:Princeton University alumni, 2010–19
 * Nominator's rationale: There is no scheme of Category:Alumni by decade. If anything, they could be diffused by century but I don't know that's necessary either. Note that other old universities have single alumni categories, such as Category:Harvard University alumni. Also note that there are 650+ in the main category now. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:05, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * As the editor who split these categories up, I am not opposed to them being merged back into the parent category. I thought it would be a useful way of splitting the very large category into smaller chunks. --MainlyTwelve (talk) 16:10, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom; nearly any category can be split up this way but we usually don't so that they retain their usefulness - another reason why boolean searching would be a good idea. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:27, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Upmerge per above. Neutralitytalk 05:39, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Upmerge per nom. It doesn't matter what year someone graduated from an institution per WP:NOTDEFINING. Furthermore, it would not aid navigation to the reader in any way (in fact it would make navigation while looking for other alumni much more difficult). Jrcla2 (talk) 03:12, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


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Category:Indian Jain monks by century
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge to, Jain monks by century and Indian monks by century. Oh, and now there is also , so the contents will be merged there too, although that hierarchy may also be challenged later.
 * As for the suggested grouping by historical period: comparing this to sibling hierarchies, we have a by-period structure for, but not currently for monks; Category:Christian monks is subdivided by century (and separately by nationality). – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:01, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting indian jain monks by century


 * Nominator's rationale: /Upmerge as appropriate (i.e. Jain monks by century and Indian monks by century). There's no need for this triple intersection: virtually all Jain monks are Indian and we don't need a scheme for monks by religion, century, and nationality. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:50, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Procedural comment. The nomination as set out simply removes a container category. If the nominator intends to merge or delete the by-century subcats, the proposed actions should be listed above, and the categories tagged. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:21, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * More procedural comment, the subcategories have been tagged now but wrongly, they indicate "delete" instead of "merge", hence the merge target is unspecified, and the categories and merge targets are not listed here either. That makes it impossible for an admin to close the discussion in the way that nominator intends. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:32, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Support upmerge but hangon? Do Indian Jains first? We have a clear case of WP:OVERCAT here - this is a religion that flourished around the time of the Roman Empire, yet we have 13 articles in 9 categories BC, and 27 articles in 8 categories in the 1st century AD. We have 22 articles in 7 categories up to the 19th century, then 28 in the 20th century and 17 in the 21st. So even if we lumped them all together, we'd only be looking at 80 articles - hardly too many for a combined category without any century subcats. If you wanted to split it up, one could do it like  with Ancient... and Medieval... divisions. So I think there's a clear case for some kind of merger, but maybe sort out the Indian Jain thing below first? Mind you, it would be nice to get on with it, there's a bunch of old Indian monks hanging round red-link categories at the moment that probably don't want to be created.Le Deluge (talk) 19:08, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd definitely support merging to Ancient, Medieval and Early Modern. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:25, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Bear in mind that this is northern India, so the natural division is Ancient, Medieval, colonial India and independent India. But to be honest the first two are the interesting ones given when Jainism was at its peak - in music terms the Jains of ancient and medieval times were Elvis and the Beatles, whereas the more recent ones are one-hit wonders... To be honest, 80 in a category is fine, it doesn't need dividing.Le Deluge (talk) 19:53, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * You're right it should be aligned with the natural division in India, there's probably also a Mughal period in between. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:25, 12 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indian Jain monks
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 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:45, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting indian jain monks


 * Nominator's rationale: /Upmerge as appropriate (to Indian monks and Jain monks). Virtually all Jains--especially monks--are Indian. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:49, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose - What about Category:Indian Buddhist monks, Category:Indian Christian monks and Category:Indian Hindu monks? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  10:41, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose per previous comment, this is part of an established tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:42, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Strongly support upmerge The fact that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is irrelevant - what matters is that a chosen attribute is WP:DEFINING. We have an established tree of male athletes, because gender is defining in sport - but we don't have because 90% of astronauts are male. In the same way I'd guess >90% of Jains are Indian, so being Indian is not WP:DEFINING for a Jain. Le Deluge (talk) 18:43, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * This is clearly a matter of perspective: within Jain, Indian is not defining; however within Indian, Jain is defining. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:12, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * That's not how WP:DEFINING works - by analogy you would say that within males, astronauts are defining therefore we should have - and that is explicitly excluded. It's the first word that is the adjective that modifies the second word or phrase, so the defining-ness only goes one way. Le Deluge (talk) 19:53, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The reason that we don't have a male astronauts category is that we keep to WP:CATEGRS, that has nothing to do with order of words. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:26, 12 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indian monks by century
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Checking the dates of the contents, it can be seen that at the time of the nomination, the category only contained . it now also has sub-categories by century; these were added on 27 February, and negate the original rationale. To delete, a fresh nomination would be required, including those sub-categories. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:37, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting indian monks by century


 * Nominator's rationale: There is no scheme for the triple intersection of nationality, monk-hood, and century, plus the only subcat (also nominated) is pretty redundant. Upmerge as appropriate to Indian monks and monks by century for appropriate subcats. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:48, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Proposed cats already has too much of pages and cats and must be subcategorised. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  11:37, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Procedural oppose, none of the subcategories have been tagged. Just deleting the top category without merging the subcategories is completely meaningless. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:44, 2 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.