Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 March 11



Category:Lists of type of foods

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename and populate from the parent (option A), as there is no consensus to merge. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:15, 16 April 2017 (UTC)


 * OPTION A
 * Propose renaming Category:Lists of type of foods to Category:Lists of foods by type
 * Propose splitting Category:Lists of foods to Category:Lists of foods by type (added on relisting)


 * OPTION B
 * Propose merging Category:Lists of type of foods to Category:Lists of foods (added on relisting)


 * Nominator's rationale: The current name is a little unclear, and might be read to imply that the members are lists of food types, where they're actually lists of dishes, organized by type. Ibadibam (talk) 19:30, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: to consider more clearly the alternatives proposed. I have re-presented the original nomination as Option A, and Marcocapelle's suggestion as Option B.
 * Upmerge to Category:Lists of foods, the type of content in this category is very similar to what is in the parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:01, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:22, 11 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Chalcedonianism

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete/merge per revised nomination. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:31, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting chalcedonianism


 * Propose deleting Category:Chalcedonian Christians
 * Propose deleting Category:Chalcedonian Christian monarchs Propose merging Category:Chalcedonian Christian monarchs to Category:Christian monarchs
 * Propose deleting Category:Converts to Chalcedonian Christianity‎
 * Nominator's rationale: delete because the scope of the category is unclear (is it about denominations, or rites, or theology?) and without limiting inclusion criteria the category may grow to a near-copy of the whole Category:Christianity tree (which would be useless of course). (Background: Chalcedonian Christianity may be regarded as synonymous of 'mainstream Christianity', covering Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism.) Marcocapelle (talk) 15:36, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Partial Oppose I could live with the deletion of all bar Category:Chalcedonianism. Such a container is still needed. Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:12, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete most -- I agree that Category:Chalcedonianism may be worth having but as a container for Catholic and Orthodox and their descendant denominations (e.g. most Protestant churches). Possibly rename that to Category:Chalcedonian denominations.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:00, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:35, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment: the proposals above would be destructive to the hierarchy of Category:Christian monarchs. The Category:Chalcedonian Christian monarchs holds Christian monarchs before the East–West Schism of 1054 AD, as a predecessor category to Category:Roman Catholic monarchs and Category:Orthodox monarchs (as well as a parent), and a counterpart to Category:Non-Chalcedonian Christian monarchs. The latter is part of the Category:Non-Chalcedonianism hierarchy which has not been nominated. Perhaps the Non-Chalcedonian categories might be considered WP:defining, and the Chalcedonian ones non-defining. In that case, merger of the monarchs to "Christian monarchs" would be preferable to deletion; or renaming might be considered, along the lines of "Christian monarchs before 1054". – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:35, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking, I've adapted the nomination accordingly. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:44, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I will also support the revised nom. Peterkingiron (talk) 23:01, 11 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Universities and colleges in Moldova

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. If these categories are nominated again, please note that the nomination should address the sub-cat Category:Universities and colleges in Romania by type. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:08, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting universities and colleges in moldova


 * Propose deleting universities and colleges in romania


 * Nominator's rationale: In Moldova and Romania, colleges and universities are on different educational stages: secondary and tertiary, respectively. There are no reasons to put them together in one category. XXN, 16:34, 11 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Object -- Looking at the second, all the content appears to be tertiary, though some are called academies or institutes. In Britain there was a period when not all institutions offering degrees were universities.  I suspect we have something similar here.   I think WP has used the phrase "Universities and colleges" in this situations.   All that needs to be done is to provide a headnote that these refer to tertiary education.  Peterkingiron (talk) 22:59, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
 * revised vote below. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:44, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I suspect - but please correct if I'm wrong - that nominator does not mean to say that 2nd and 3rd stage institutes are mixed up in these categories but rather that none of these institutes is called a "college" because colleges is 2nd stage in these countries. So then we may suffice with "Universities" in the category name without "Colleges" (it should be a rename/merge proposal instead of delete). Marcocapelle (talk) 07:40, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * These categories were created in July 2016, [probably] just for uniformization with other subcategories of Category:Universities and colleges by country. As colleges are on 2nd stage of the educational system (like Lyceums) in these countries, there should be by two distinct categories: and  vs.  and  (if needed).  A similar situation is in Russia and other former USSR countries. See also ru:Колледж (+ru:Категория:Колледжи России) and ro:Colegiu. --XXN, 10:58, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for confirming. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:17, 12 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose - this is a typical category like Category:Universities and colleges in Bulgaria and Category:Universities and colleges in Austria, which doesn't imply the universities and colleges are the same level.GreyShark (dibra) 09:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The fact that "this is a typical category" is not an argument. You can't apply whenever and wherever typical things just because they are typical. This is why we are not creating categories like "Presidents of the United Kingdom", "Presidents of Canada", "Presidents of Australia", etc.
 * I'm not sure about the situation in Bulgaria, but I see that Category:Universities and colleges in Bulgaria, like those for Moldova and Romania, was created only in mid-2016. And the same user who has created this category also moved List of universities in Bulgaria to List of universities and colleges in Bulgaria, despite the fact that it contains only universities + few academies, and no one college. Anyway this discussion is not about Bulgaria or Austria; I don't have enough data, knowledge and certitude to include them here. XXN, 11:49, 14 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Alt proposal: merge Category:Universities and colleges in Moldova to Category:Universities in Moldova and Category:Universities and colleges in Romania to Category:Universities in Romania per previous discussion. We shouldn't create confusion about the scope of the category which is about 3rd stage educational institutes. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:37, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree with the 'merge'. In fact this had to be a "merge_then_delete" request, in order to restore things at the state prior to the edits of the user who created these categories. XXN, 00:04, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Marcocapelle for mentioning a previous discussion. Here's a link to it; user Bogdangiusca then said that "it might lead to confusion as college in Romania may refer to a type of high-school (tertiary education)". And he was right. XXN, 00:19, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the link. A clever recommendation in the previous discussion was: rename only those (to universities and colleges) where university and college are synonymous (that is, almost none ;-)). Marcocapelle (talk) 10:22, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Support alt nom - However, they will each need a headnote explaining that they cover all kinds of tertiary education, whether provided in a university, an institute, or a college. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:44, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose. It is true that "college" in Romania and Moldova is the name used for an elite secondary school (similar to a gymnasium in the German- and Austrian-influenced world). However, many British secondary schools also are or were called "colleges" (e.g. Eton College) and we still have Category:Universities and colleges in the United Kingdom which only refers to tertiary institutions. It's part of a standard category tree. No need to change it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
 * However, the Eton College article is not categorized into Category:Universities and colleges in the United Kingdom. I still don't see valid arguments to keep a common category "Universities and colleges" for Moldova/Romania. This problem will be perpetuated in the whole tree; do you plan to include this category in both "Higher education by country" and "Secondary education by country‎" parent categories? XXN, 14:10, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Don't think I said it was! In fact, I think you've completely misunderstood what I did say. In the UK there are secondary schools that are called colleges. Yet we have Category:Universities and colleges in the United Kingdom that doesn't include them (because that category only includes tertiary institutions). In Romania and Moldova there are also secondary schools that are called colleges. So what's the problem with having Category:Universities and colleges in Moldova and Category:Universities and colleges in Romania which also don't include them? A scope note is fine to specify what the category should include. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:09, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Currently there are no articles about Romanian or Moldovan colleges, this is why in these categories can't be seen such articles. But, as several RO/MD colleges meet the notability criteria, in future there might appear articles for them, and they will go in "Category:Universities and colleges in Moldova/Romania" ? This is why I started this CFD. There is an alternative way of creating new categories with disambiguated titles, like " ", but I don't consider it as a preferred way, as there exists more natural sollutions (like the one proposed in the CFD rationale). XXN, 16:11, 19 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.