Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 March 15



Category:People from Green Township, New Jersey

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 06:01, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Green Township, New Jersey to Category:People from Sussex County, New Jersey
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. One county community with just one entry. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:46, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. WP:SMALLCAT states: "this criterion does not preclude all small categories; a category which does have realistic potential for growth, such as a category for holders of a notable political office, may be kept even if only a small number of its articles actually exist at the present time". People in a township have the potential. Jack | talk page 16:45, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The "potential for more articles" exemption from SMALLCAT does not apply just because a category might be able to have more contents someday, because every small category that exists at all could always claim that exemption. It applies only if there's an immediate potential for expansion right away, because the category is for a criterion that constitutes a notability pass in and of itself, such as "holders of a notable political office". Bearcat (talk) 21:03, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment People from Foo categories of small one-county communities have been merged at CFD many times if the community has five or less entries. Note here as just one example and also involved similar sized New Jersey communities....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 19:37, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge -- there are many precedents for treating small place categories like this. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:29, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SMALLCAT. No prejudice against recreation in the future if and when there are more articles to file here than this. Bearcat (talk) 21:03, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Frankford Township, New Jersey

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 06:06, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The arguments in favor of keep have been refuted by editors in favor of delete by arguments that are factually correct (longstanding consensus and no overall accepted subcategorization scheme by populated place) and thereafter editors in favor of keep made no further attempts to convince their opponents by new arguments. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:18, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Frankford Township, New Jersey to Category:People from Sussex County, New Jersey
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. One county community with just two entries. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:44, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. WP:SMALLCAT states: "this criterion does not preclude all small categories; a category which does have realistic potential for growth, such as a category for holders of a notable political office, may be kept even if only a small number of its articles actually exist at the present time". People in a township have the potential. Jack | talk page 16:45, 16 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment People from Foo categories of small one-county communities have been merged at CFD many times if the community has five or less entries. Note here as just one example and also involved similar sized New Jersey communities....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 19:37, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep Per the actual wording of WP:SMALLCAT: "Avoid categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme, such as subdividing songs in Category:Songs by artist or flags in Category:Flags by country", which simply doesn't apply here. Similar categories have started out small and grown as other editors work to build this encyclopedia. The category already has multiple entries and is part of the well-defined structure of Category:People from Sussex County, New Jersey, which in turn has several hundred fully viable partners within Category:People by county in New Jersey. Alansohn (talk) 21:29, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
 * There is not an "overall accepted subcategorization scheme" of every populated place always automatically getting one of these the moment there are one or two articles to file in it — the "overall accepted subcategorization scheme" for this tree is that a place can have one if there are enough articles to justify it, while smaller places just get catted at the county level. Bearcat (talk) 21:04, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:SMALLCAT. No prejudice against recreation in the future if and when there are more articles to file here than this. Bearcat (talk) 21:04, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:First Ministers of Northern Ireland

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 06:08, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:First Ministers of Northern Ireland to Category:First and deputy First Ministers of Northern Ireland
 * Nominator's rationale: The First Minister and deputy First Minister are joint positions in Northern Ireland. One cannot exist without the other. This category implies that they are not equal, so I'm suggesting the name change so that dFMs are included. The two positions are, in a way, 'Joint First Ministers' but the category needs to be changed to reflect their joint authority. st  170  e  14:04, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 22:08, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose The FM and dFM may in many senses be equal, but they are distinct positions. Arlene Foster was FM not dFM, and Martin McGuinness was dFM not FM. Even though they are equal in power, there is at least some sense in which the FM is senior to the dFM, simply because the word "deputy" by its ordinary meaning of the term implies a junior position. If they were meant to be completely equal in every sense, then the legal terminology would have been "Joint First Ministers" or "Co-First Ministers"; indeed, that is the terminology favoured by Sinn Fein, and TUV supports that terminology as well for rather opposite reasons, but DUP rejects it, pointing out that it is not the terminology provided for in the legislation. Compare the case of Northern Ireland to the Captains-Regent of San Marino, where dual office holders both are given exactly the same title as opposed to distinct titles. So, given there is a real distinction between FM and dFM, I think there should be distinct categories. Hence, rather than renaming this category as suggested, we should create a parallel category for dFMs. SJK (talk) 06:10, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose -- These are distinct positions. Certainly we should make no move while (I think) negotiations are still in progress to form a new administration.  If that leads to a change in titles and status, we can make the change then.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:32, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. There has to be a Vice-President of the United States, too, but that doesn't mean that it isn't still a distinct position from the presidency. Bearcat (talk) 21:05, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.