Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 March 18



Category:Parricides

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 06:18, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting parricides


 * Nominator's rationale: Only one entry - Lead Belly. He doesn't fit the definition, which is a person who killed their parent. Rathfelder (talk) 22:48, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * More specifically, it's someone who killed his father; the corresponding term for a mother-killer is "matricide". Nyttend (talk) 22:52, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete. The Lead Belly article has several inappropriate categories; the text mentions convictions for illegal weapon-carrying and for assault, but nothing related to murder, and yet we have categories for murder, parricide, and attempted murder.  All three are inappropriate.  Nyttend (talk) 22:57, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The definition of parricide per Meriam-Webster 'one that murders his or her father, mother, or a close relative'. So it is more than just parents. Lead Belly per his article did kill a relative, but how close that person was is not mentioned. In any case this category has just one entry and the parent category can cover this crime. I say Delete....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 10:37, 19 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Parks in Saint Helena

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 06:21, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting parks in saint helena


 * Nominator's rationale: There was only one entry in the category Category:Important Bird Areas of Saint Helena. None of those articles related to anything which could be described as a park. I have a friend presently on St Helena.  I get the impression that there isn't anywhere there which could be described as a park. Rathfelder (talk) 22:33, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Buchanan, Virginia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. While the discussion had little participation there are many precedents for this type of closure. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:24, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Buchanan, Virginia to Category:People from Botetourt County, Virginia
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. Small one-county community with just two entries. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 21:07, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Criticism of monotheism

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: soft delete, selectively merging contents to Category:criticism of religion, Category:critics of religions and Category:Books critical of religion. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:37, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting criticism of monotheism


 * Nominator's rationale: See WP:RDH (permalink) for a discussion that's happened in the last 24 hours on this subject. Basically, this category appears to have too few articles to be useful as a category; out of its five articles, just two (Criticism of monotheism and a biography of a critic of monotheism) are actually criticisms of monotheism, while the other three articles are books that criticise religion in general, not just monotheism.  I'm nominating this category merely because it seems to be too small, and as it's been tagged with popcat literally since its creation in 2008, I don't expect it to get a lot of additional articles any time soon.


 * Please note that some people in the WP:RDH believe that this is fundamentally an inappropriate category on WP:COATRACK grounds, a position that I don't hold; I'll let them explain their reasons more fully (otherwise I might distort their arguments), but basically I figure that we could have a category on this subject if we had enough articles. After all, we have an article on the subject, which contains some bits with criticism from polytheistic and atheistic perspectives (e.g. saying that monotheism is problematic because it leads to intolerance), and I don't agree that this is necessarily a coatrack.


 * If you want to argue for deletion, please say "Soft delete" or "Hard delete". Soft, my position, is that this category is problematic because it's too small, and therefore it should unquestionably be restored (see WP:REFUND) in the unlikely event that someone can find enough articles to put into it; while hard, the perspective of people arguing WP:COATRACK, is that it's not appropriate to have a category on this topic at all.  Nyttend (talk) 17:15, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * PS, if this is closed as delete, the closing admin needs to close it as "soft" or "hard" as well; a simple "delete" would be ambiguous and wouldn't help anyone. Nyttend (talk) 17:38, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Soft delete - Coatrack or not, most of the few articles in it are not specifically about monotheism, but about religion in general. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:28, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * REname The main article is a very poor one. The category content is books arguing that there is no God.  Category:Books promoting atheism might be a solution, with the criticism article as a main article.  I believe in God, but I also do not believe in the caricature but up by some of these authors.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:56, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * So basically, cut out the main article and the critic of monotheism, and then rename? I hadn't thought of that idea.  We already have Category:Books critical of religion; I think we could move the three books out of this category and into the other one, and then do a soft delete for lack of anti-monotheism articles.  Nyttend (talk) 18:00, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Neutral - but if the category isn't kept, at least keep the articles within the tree of Category:Criticism of religion. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:21, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, getting rid of this category and not putting the articles somewhere else would be unhelpful. Nyttend (talk) 21:15, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Recategorize all articles to Category:Books critical of religion then delete the category. It serves no useful purpose at Wikipedia currently.  -- Jayron 32 02:42, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Jayron32, is that a soft delete ("restore if there are more articles to put into it in the future") or hard delete ("don't restore")? Nyttend (talk) 12:14, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * —is WP:SOFTDELETE applicable here? I find "Soft deletion is a special kind of deletion which may be used after an article's deletion discussion. If a deletion discussion sees very little discussion even after being relisted several times, the administrator can close the discussion as soft delete and delete the page." Bus stop (talk) 13:25, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Not exactly. [Sorry if you know all this, but I want my reasoning to be straightforward] Basically, categories automatically get deleted (WP:CSD) if they're emptied, and nobody will complain on process grounds if such a category is restored or recreated after articles are found to put into it.  However, you're not supposed to go ahead and empty a category out of process; knowingly emptying this category wouldn't be appropriate.  The basic idea is that I'm trying to get community consensus for emptying this category and then having it deleted in the spirit of C1, with the idea that if the category's recreated, or requested for WP:REFUND, nobody will object that this CFD means that it can't be refunded and/or that it's eligible for WP:CSD speedy deletion as a repost.  I nearly never nominate categories for discussion on grounds of "this is too small to be viable", but if I did, I normally would use this kind of rationale.  If a category is deleted solely because it can't have more than a tiny number of articles, and then later you demonstrate that there are actually a good number of articles that can go into it, refund or recreation should be uncontroversial; I'm just trying to ensure that that's the case here, should my view get consensus.  Nyttend (talk) 17:05, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, so I will change my opinion to "soft-delete". I was not aware of these intricacies. I don't see anything wrong with the Category, but its precarious state is related to two factors: minimal content, and the existence of the article by the same name—Criticism of monotheism—that can serve as a jumping-off point for the reader to find related articles. Bus stop (talk) 17:52, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it is clear that I wouldn't object if articles existed to populate this category with. They don't, ergo the category should be deleted currently.  If articles were to exist, the category would have a reason to be.  They don't, so it doesn't.  I'm not here to invent words or use invented words.  Right now, there is no reason to have this category, as I abundantly explained.  If the situation changes, the situation changes.  -- Jayron 32 21:19, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak support for recategorise I agree with only 4 items it's not useful. I'm only weakly supporting since I wonder if it's actually easy to expand. I guess we've established that criticising monotheism doesn't have to mean you support religion or polytheism. But I'd also like to support out that something could both criticise religion generally and monotheism in particular. Whether it would be useful to add a book to both IMO would have to be decided on a case by case basis. There would need to be sufficient criticism of monotheism in particular to justify it. (To give a similar example, something could be criticial of religion in general, but also criticise Islam or Christianity or whatever particularly.) Note this means there would need to be explicit criticism of monotheism rather than simply criticism of monotheistic religions. P.S. I'd note that Alan Moore is unlikely to belong in a book category Nil Einne (talk) 10:39, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Hard delete Soft delete - Use the "See also" section as well as other parts of the Criticism of monotheism article to alert the reader to related articles of possible interest. Bus stop (talk) 16:09, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete a double negative; far too abstruse. Why have a category that would put Hinduism and New Atheism in one category, and leave us to argue whether Christianity is monotheistic, when Islam and Judaism usually argue it isn't?  Basically, what is the purpose served by having this category? (Everything I do is hard, btw.) μηδείς (talk) 19:07, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - as others note above, all the items fit neatly into existing atheism categories without distinction, making this a subcontainer that could be populated with all members of one or more of those categories and vice versa, which in turn makes the category redundant clutter. ComicsAreJustAllRight (talk) 08:44, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete- All of this content fits easily into criticisms of religions. Add a book section to the end of that if it is so important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 53backes (talk • contribs) 07:23, 3 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Grand Manan

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. I boldly moved the page instead. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:38, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:People from Grand Manan to Category:People from Grand Manan Island
 * Nominator's rationale: To make it consistent with the article on the location, Grand Manan Island. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 15:21, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment except in the title, all else in the article simply refers to Grand Manan, without Island. Shouldn't the article title be renamed instead? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 1 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Months in the 1900s

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: snow keep and leaving follow-up to User:Eddie891 (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 11:21, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Months in the 1900s to Category:Months of the 20th century
 * Nominator's rationale: 1900s means 1900-1909 across Wikipedia, and the parent of this category is . Renaming will mean January 1900-December 1900 will need to removed, and January 2000-December 2000 added. Tim! (talk) 09:54, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep. With 700+ articles (out of 1200 possible articles), the current contents could easily be subdivided by decade.  Let's just create Category:Months of the 20th century as a parent for this one, and then we can migrate all the 1910-and-later months to their own decade subcategories.  Nyttend (talk) 17:44, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep but limit it to the decade (i.e. purge). 1900-09 will potentially have 120 articles, which is enough for a category.  The purged items should go into their own decade categories.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:00, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep per Peterkingiron....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 19:03, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep per Peterkingiron. Eddie891 (talk) 21:33, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep per Nyttend and Peterkingiron. I'm all in favor of keeping "months of the 1900s" as a subcategory of a new "Months of the 20th century", rather than renaming.  There are enough of these now that we can have other subcats like "months of the 1910s", "months of the 1920s", etc.   When the project started nearly 10 years ago, January 1900 to December 1900 were among the first articles, and although they were in the 1900s decade, they were in the 19th century rather than the 20th.  Now that the project is preparing to complete its own first decade of existence, it's appropriate that it gets split into 10 subcats under the 20th century umbrella. Mandsford 14:33, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * If that does become the solution, can we shift the discussion to "Propose creating Category:Months of the 20th century, Category:Months in the 1910s, Category:Months in the 1920s, etc.", using the same rationale that Nyttend and Peterkingiron have advanced, i.e., large enough now to split? Mandsford 14:41, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * There is a clear consensus in favor of the alternative proposal. is any of you willing to implement the alternative? If that's the case, this discussion can quickly be closed. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:17, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll work on it Eddie891 (talk) 13:22, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
 * once consensus is reached. Eddie891 (talk) 22:57, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
 * This is ok, please close the nomination. Tim! (talk) 10:22, 25 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Former Soviet Union categories

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus to delete, so rename the first to Category:Communist parties in the former Soviet Union‎.
 * Because this result is inconsistent with the previous discussions linked below, this close is no bar to an early re-nomination. – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:35, 30 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting Category:Communist parties in the Former Soviet Union‎
 * Propose deleting Category:Societies of the former Soviet Union‎ ‎
 * Propose deleting Category:Religion in the former Soviet Union
 * Propose deleting Category:Islam in the former Soviet Union‎
 * Propose deleting Category:Jews and Judaism in the former Soviet Union‎‎
 * Nominator's rationale: delete anachronistic categories. The content of these categories is completely unrelated to the Soviet Union, it is about the new states that emerged when the Soviet Union dissolved. This is follow-up on this and this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:50, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Rename all This is a difficult one.  USSR (and imperial Russia) were big enough to be a continent.  Inevitably 70+ years have left their mark on all of the ex-Soviet states.  Category:Communist parties in ex-Soviet states might do the trick.  "State" is a purposely vague word to cover sovereign states, those like Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Crimea and Transnistriam whose position is ambivalent, also federating states of Russia, such as Tartaristan.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:11, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Left their mark is pretty vague and doesn't apply to many articles. For example, Hinduism in Latvia has nothing to do with USSR. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:29, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * delete all. I haven't found anything in the category Category:Christianity in Latvia or any of its subcategories that has any relation to the Soviet Union.Rathfelder (talk) 22:39, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Neutral But Category:Communist parties in the Former Soviet Union should be kept and possibly renamed. Charles Essie (talk) 19:45, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep all. As  said, 70+ years as part of the Soviet Union have deeply influenced all aspects of society. Even if Hinduism in Latvia (as a more exotic example) may largely be a post-Soviet phenomenon, the very fact that it is a rather new, minor phenomenon indeed has much to do with the fact that Latvia is an ex-Soviet country where spirituality has been largely confined to the traditional Christian denominations unless further marginalized. While cathcing up and developing their distinct cultures nowadays, former Soviet countries still have a whole historical era in common, largely out of touch with Western societies. Therefore, this grouping will remain to be highly relevant for at least the next 25 years. --PanchoS (talk) 18:56, 30 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Post-Soviet states

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: relisted at Categories for discussion/Log/2017 May 1. (I was in the process of closing this per nom yesterday, but an edit conflict arose in which Armbrust posted his opposition.) – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:11, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Post-Soviet states to Category:Aftermath of the dissolution of the Soviet Union
 * Nominator's rationale: rename to have a clearer scope for this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:36, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * comment aftermath is quite encompassing: perchance everything that happened everywhere after the dissolution is part of the aftermath - maybe even the election of the current US president. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:00, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
 * The intention is to make it less encompassing: "Post-Soviet states" may contain everything in current former Soviet states, while aftermath of the dissolution it should at least be related to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:31, 26 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Support Clearer scope. Dimadick (talk) 12:46, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose The main article of the category is Post-Soviet states. Armbrust The Homunculus 20:20, 30 April 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Oracle database documenter

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: upmerge to Category:Oracle software without prejudice to moving the article to a more suitable category in the Oracle tree. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:36, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting oracle database documenter


 * Nominator's rationale: Overly specific category, unlikely to ever have many members, only one page in it at present SJK (talk) 05:10, 18 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Upmerge to Oracle software (only parent). Peterkingiron (talk) 18:14, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Question Does upmerging this category mean that the link to "Oracle database documenter" will forward to the "Oracle software" category? Scott tiger 2002 (talk) 12:00, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment: I have nominated the only page in this category for deletion, at Articles for deletion/ClearDB Documenter. So, there may be nothing left to upmerge. SJK (talk) 09:37, 24 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.