Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 May 3



Category:The Rolling Stones Documentary Films

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Neil N  talk to me 07:43, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:The Rolling Stones Documentary Films to Category:The Rolling Stones documentary films
 * Nominator's rationale: Correct case. Her Pegship (talk) 22:57, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


 * I've been bold and moved it.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 07:37, 4 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Accidental explosion disasters in the United States

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:30, 28 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Propose upmerging Category:Accidental explosion disasters in the United States into Category:Industrial fires and explosions in the United States
 * Nominator's rationale: While these two American categories overlap, the former category does not have an overall parent category; while the second category has a parent Category:Industrial fires and explosions, and also the potential to add more subcategories for other countries. There may be a few articles that do not fall into the proposed category, but would still be in another "disaster" category for maritime or rail transport disasters. NB: The category Category:Industrial accidents and incidents should have most articles,  particularly those relating to a particular incident, in subcategories. Hugo999 (talk) 01:47, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Support upmerge No reason to disambiguate these explosions by whether they were accidental or not. Dimadick (talk) 07:53, 5 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Parade High School All-Americans (girls' soccer)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:43, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting parade high school all-americans (girls' soccer)


 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCAWARD and WP:NONDEF. Not mention in the body of a number of biographies, including Justi Baumgardt and Danielle Borgman. TM 01:15, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep It is mentioned in good articles such as Abby Wambach and Hope Solo. A simple Google search provides more information and a breath of references by NSCAA, Soccer America, others. Hmlarson (talk) 01:22, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep the category IS defining for many - it has been used over time to define a player as having been great at an early age ("former Parade All-American leaves team," etc) Rikster2 (talk) 01:50, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Listify (if necessary) then Delete -- as we usually do in WP:OCAWARD cases. The quality of the articles is immaterial, but school sport is generally NN.  Peterkingiron (talk) 20:50, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment - We literally have hundreds of award categories. Also, please be careful not to bring only a British POV when examining how school sport is covered in the United States. Rikster2 (talk) 17:17, 7 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Parade High School All-Americans (boys' soccer)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:43, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting parade high school all-americans (boys' soccer)


 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCAWARD. Non-defining award. Not mentioned in the body of a number of articles, including Freddy Adu, Mike Agnew, and Corey Ashe. TM 01:12, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep It is often a defining award in the development of numerous college and professional athletes as displayed by the # of notable athletes in the category and numerous references found in a simple Google search. Since the nominator is also suggesting other Parade All-American categories be deleted - they should all be in one CFD.  Hmlarson (talk) 01:29, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep the category IS defining for many - it has been used over time to define a player as having been great at an early age ("former Parade All-American leaves team," etc) Rikster2 (talk) 01:50, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Listify (if necessary) then Delete -- as we usually do in WP:OCAWARD cases. The quality of the articles is immaterial, but school sport is generally NN.  Peterkingiron (talk) 20:50, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment - We literally have hundreds of award categories. Also, please be careful not to bring only a British POV when examining how school sport is covered in the United States. Rikster2 (talk) 17:17, 7 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Parade High School All-Americans (girls' basketball)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:43, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting parade high school all-americans (girls' basketball)


 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCAWARD. Not defining for a college or professional athlete. TM 01:08, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep It is often a defining award in the development of numerous college and professional athletes as displayed by the # of notable athletes in the categories and numerous references found in a simple Google search. Since the nominator is also suggesting other Parade All-American categories be deleted - they should all be in one CFD.  Hmlarson (talk) 01:28, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep the category IS defining for many - it has been used over time to define a player as having been great at an early age ("former Parade All-American leaves team," etc) Rikster2 (talk) 01:50, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Can you point to an article where this is not the case? "if the characteristic would not be appropriate to mention in the lead portion of an article, it is probably not defining"--TM 02:30, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I pulled out many examples in the last discussion, which I linked in the Parade boys' entry. Did you review that discussion before putting these up again? Also, that statement about being in the lead category is not reality. We have categories for every team a player competed for. We have categories for most international competitions a player competed in. They wouldn't all be in the lead and yet they are still appropriate categories. This is not even to mention that high school All-American status could easily be in the lead for many players. Whether or not this has been written into the lead is a separate issue and doesn't mean this wouldn't be appropriate to include. Rikster2 (talk) 09:23, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Listify (if necessary) then Delete -- as we usually do in WP:OCAWARD cases. The quality of the articles is immaterial, but school sport is generally NN.  Peterkingiron (talk) 20:51, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment - We literally have hundreds of award categories. Also, please be careful not to bring only a British POV when examining how school sport is covered in the United States. Rikster2 (talk) 17:17, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The difference is that most of the awards not up for deletion are for the highest level competitors in their sport, whereas this is a list of teenage amateurs who were ranked highly. Certainly it is not defining as the Wooden Award is.--TM 18:45, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Except that top high school athletes in the US routinely meet WP:GNG and Parade and McDonald's All-America designations are indicators of these players qualifying as "top" athletes. It is certainly as defining as Category:Eagle Scouts (which went through deletion review and was kept). Rikster2 (talk) 18:58, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting point. Can you give a few examples of people in this category who did not pursue their basketball career afterwards and still are notable just because of their high school basketball career? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:21, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * That's a bit of a red herring. Why would it matter if they pursued their basketball careers beyond high school or not? We have high school players who meet WP:GNG and this has been true for years (even prior to the advent of Wikipedia). Look at the participants of 2017 McDonald's All-American Boys Game. If the person met GNG as a high schooler, it doesn't matter if they later also did other things that made them notable (again). I can give you many examples of people in these categories that were notable as high school athletes before taking any other steps in their careers. Rebecca Lobo, Candace Parker and Lisa Leslie being three in this particular category Rikster2 (talk) 22:35, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The question is really whether high school basketball performance is a stand-alone notability criterion and it doesn't seem like it is. So then WP:OCAWARD should surely apply. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:20, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Your logic does not follow. Whether or not a person stopped their sport career after HS is not an indicator of "stand-alone" if the subject, in fact, was notable as a high school player and then just continued that path through other levels of the sport. We create HS player articles today for top players and for many (certainly not all) they can easily be sourced to meet GNG. If the subject is notable for that point in time, it doesn't matter a whit if they then did more things to make them stay in the news (college, professional careers). Rikster2 (talk) 17:27, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * It's far from easy to find examples of "HS player articles today" in this category, it seems like nearly all of them have become a professional basketball player. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:08, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Are all the Eagle Scouts current Eagle scouts? There is no requirement that all categories on a subject's article be terminal and frankly, what you point out has more to do with what articles people choose to create rather than who truly meets GNG. If an actor gains notability on the stage and then goes on to star in films (where they presumably will get much more media coverage and be known to a bigger segment of the public), it doesn't invalidate those categories "earned" as a stage actor. Notability doesn't expire. Rikster2 (talk) 21:31, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree that notability doesn't expire, but so far I haven't seen any people who were notable for just high school basketball. They're all notable for what they've done in their later career. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:19, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * But where is it stated that categories have to serve that purpose? It does not follow from your argument that these categories are in some way invalid. Rikster2 (talk) 11:36, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:NONDEF states that notability is usually a weaker criterion than definingness. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:37, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Then why did you lead us down this path by asking the question "Can you give a few examples of people in this category who did not pursue their basketball career afterwards and still are notable just because of their high school basketball career?" we have been going back and forth on your question. Rikster2 (talk) 11:22, 13 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Parade High School All-Americans (boys' basketball)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:43, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting parade high school all-americans (boys' basketball)


 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCAWARD, not a defining award. It is not even mention in the body of the article in every article. TM 01:07, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep It is often a defining award in the development of numerous college and professional athletes as displayed by the # of athletes in the category and numerous references found in a simple Google search. Since the nominator is also suggesting other Parade All-American categories be deleted - they should all be in one CFD.  Hmlarson (talk) 01:28, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep I am going to link the discussion the last time this was nominated for AfD where I linked that there were numerous mentions of the Parade honors to describe (i.e. Define) players by this standard. All of the Parade categories are notable for this reason. Here is the previous discussion. I can go into more detail and re-do the research if needed. Rikster2 (talk) 01:42, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Listify (if necessary) then Delete -- as we usually do in WP:OCAWARD cases. The quality of the articles is immaterial, but school sport is generally NN.  Peterkingiron (talk) 20:51, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment - We literally have hundreds of award categories. Also, please be careful not to bring only a British POV when examining how school sport is covered in the United States. Rikster2 (talk) 17:16, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep There are too many non-notable award categories in Wikipedia, but this is not one of them. It is defining. I'd expect this honor to be mentioned in the lead of any winner whose bio is a FA/GA.—Bagumba (talk) 03:59, 21 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:McDonald's High School All-Americans

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:43, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting mcdonald's high school all-americans


 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCAWARD. A McDonald's High School All-American may be an honor for high school athletes, but a list is not necessary. TM 01:05, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep It is often a defining award in the development of numerous college and professional athletes as displayed by the # of NOTABLE athletes in the category and numerous references found in a simple Google search. Since the nominator is also suggesting other Parade All-American categories be deleted - they should all be in one CFD. Hmlarson (talk) 01:29, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep Absolutely defining for basketball players. Recruiting classes are literally defined as being "good" by counting the number of McDonald's All-Americans. Rikster2 (talk) 01:44, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Listify (if necessary) then Delete -- as we usually do in WP:OCAWARD cases. The quality of the articles is immaterial, but school sport is generally NN.  Peterkingiron (talk) 20:52, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment - We literally have hundreds of award categories. Also, please be careful not to bring only a British POV when examining how school sport is covered in the United States. Rikster2 (talk) 17:17, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep There are too many non-notable award categories in Wikipedia, but this is not one of them. It is defining. I'd expect this honor to be mentioned in the lead of any winner whose bio is a FA/GA.—Bagumba (talk) 04:00, 21 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.