Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 November 27



Category:Science fiction genres

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus on any merging proposal. -- Tavix  ( talk ) 16:07, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Science fiction genres to Category:Science fiction by genre and renaming it to Category:Science fiction genres
 * Propose merging Category:Science fiction by genre to Category:Science fiction genres.
 * Nominator's rationale: I cannot understand their difference. CN1 (talk) 21:12, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The new proposal is the same as the first proposal above, just worded differently--I chose to do so, based on advice from admin Fayenatic, because it might help to understand the proposal better.
 * What is important, is, that in the final outcome, only one category remains, and its name is not Category:Science fiction by genre, but instead Category:Science fiction genres. I think his way; not exactly because of the name of Category:Fantasy genres, but because I believe -- as principle -- that its beneficial to avoid "by X" in the naming, wherever possible. CN1 (talk) 13:20, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose. The two categories serve completely different purposes. should be for articles about specific genres (e.g., Time travel in fiction, Alternative history, Post-apocalyptic fiction).  should contain the stories themselves (e.g., The Time Machine, SS-GB, and The Day of the Triffids respectively) in suitable subcategories. Grutness...  wha?   00:42, 28 November 2017 (UTC)


 * "The two categories serve completely different purposes." I dont believe that.
 * " should be for articles about specific genres." I concur.
 * " should contain the stories themselves" Wishful thinking--at this point in time the category does not do, what you described you want it to do. Both contain the same: science fiction genres.
 * You are envisioning something like Category:Science fiction works by genre. Subcategories would need to have the general form of--for example-- Category:Science fantasy works. But the science fiction subgenres do not have subcategoris which group all their works together, so it would a bad decision to build a category branch like this, in my opinion.
 * CN1 (talk) 13:20, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Reverse merge Category:Fantasy genres exists, but there is no Category:Fantasy by genre. 165.91.13.63 (talk) 02:33, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * EDIT:The aforementioned contains only articles about subgenres of fantasy and their corresponding categories. 02:37, 28 November 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.91.13.63 (talk)
 * CN1: may I suggest you strike out your original nomination line, and replace it with "Propose merging Category:Science fiction by genre to Category:Science fiction genres"? I think you and the anon editor have the same outcome in mind, but you have written it back to front. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:53, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Done. CN1
 * The anon editor's comment should now be taken in support of the revised nomination. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:26, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep but purge subcategories, because with the subcategories included there is not too much difference between the two categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:13, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * please comment again, now that the nomination has been revised. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:26, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Changing to neutral, the two categories don't have to be merged, but this is definitely the better way of merging. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:00, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Kelly Wearstler

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. While there was little participation in the discussion, the argument made is convincing enough to close it. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 20:45, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting kelly wearstler


 * Nominator's rationale: Eponymous category for a person without the volume of spinoff content needed to warrant one. Even the eponym itself hasn't actually been filed here -- the only content this actually has is a "Books by Kelly Wearstler" subcategory. As always, every author of books does not automatically get an eponymous category just to parent her "Books by" category -- it would be fine if there were a substantial number of other articles to file here, but not if the only other thing that could be added to it is her BLP. Bearcat (talk) 19:28, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Anthozoa of Algeria

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 20:48, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Anthozoa of Algeria to Category:Anthozoa of North Africa
 * Propose merging Category:Anthozoa of Morocco‎ to Category:Anthozoa of North Africa
 * Propose merging Category:Anthozoa of Western Sahara‎ to Category:Anthozoa of North Africa
 * Nominator's rationale: That a species (e.g. Eunicella verrucosa) is found in a particular country is WP:NON-DEFINING of the species. Example previous CFD: Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_July_23.  Note: a merge to Category:Fauna of the Mediterranean is also a possibility. DexDor(talk) 12:58, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Support – am I alone in doubting the need for these burgeoning chains of mysterious categories created by the same 3 or 4 editors who never reply to any comments or leave edit summaries? Category:Anthozoa by country was created in 2010 (edited by most of the active but secretive editors, some now blocked) but has only attracted a handful of pages in 8 very random countries. Category:Cnidarians by location is even worse. Category:Animals by location has most of its subcats named 'Fauna', not animals, and then we have Category:Eukaryotes by location, Category:Organisms by location, Category:Protostomes by location and various others. Oculi (talk) 15:55, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Support -- biota should not be split by country, except where they are unique (indigenous) to a country. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:35, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:David (Michelangelo)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. -- Tavix  ( talk ) 15:55, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting david (michelangelo)


 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT. Cross linking in the articles should suffice. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:55, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * delete per nom: a classic case of WP:SMALLCAT over an artwork. Mangoe (talk) 15:09, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Arthropods of the United Kingdom

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 20:52, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Arthropods of the United Kingdom to Category:Arthropods of Europe
 * Propose merging Category:Arthropods of Austria to Category:Arthropods of Europe
 * Propose merging Category:Arthropods of Germany to Category:Arthropods of Europe
 * Propose merging Category:Arthropods of Poland to Category:Arthropods of Europe
 * Propose merging Category:Beetles of Romania to Category:Beetles of Europe
 * Propose merging Category:Insects of Romania to Category:Insects of Europe
 * Propose merging Category:Arthropods of Romania to Category:Arthropods of Europe
 * Propose merging Category:Arthropods of Ukraine to Category:Arthropods of Europe
 * And also purge Category:Insects of Metropolitan France of species articles
 * Nominator's rationale: This is categorizing species etc by small (on a global scale) countries which is generally WP:NON-DEFINING - some of the articles make no mention of the country they are categorized for (e.g. I've recently removed Cucujus cinnaberinus from several country categories). Example previous discussion: Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_March_2.  Note: Some of these categories were created by NotWith/Nono64. DexDor(talk) 07:23, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Merge – fully agree with nom. Oculi (talk) 16:06, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Support -- The biota of UK are fewer than continental Europe, because the country is colder, but few species are indigenous. Unfortunately, there are no robust definitions for Western, Central, and Eastern Europe.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:37, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Star Wars people

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. -- Tavix  ( talk ) 15:54, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting star wars people


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT. This contains lots of actors etc (e.g. Samuel L. Jackson) who have appeared in many films.  Listing the films in the text of the actor's article and listing the main cast of each film in the film's article is the way to do things - we don't need categories like this as well (the people are well categorized by Category:20th-century American male actors etc). DexDor(talk) 06:58, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:PERFCAT. We do not categorize people by individual film (or even film franchise) that they happened to appear in — that would lead to extreme category bloat, as actors appear in many films throughout their lifetime. Samuel L. Jackson is a particularly fine example of a guy who's famous for acting in far, far too many films to be defined solely or even primarily by the fact that a few of them were Star Wars films — but that applies to many other people here too. And we doubly don't mix the actors willy-nilly in a "franchise people" category that also includes the directors and producers and writers and special effects technicians. Bearcat (talk) 19:37, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete. The title could also be referring to Category:Star Wars characters as well, though there are nonhuman characters in that category. Being a human character in that franchise is not really a defining trait—it’s science fiction set in some fictional galaxy. 165.91.13.63 (talk) 02:40, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment Since when does "people" translate to "humans" as a species? Dimadick (talk) 21:20, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Since The Eleventh Hour. "Am I people? Do I even look like people?" – Fayenatic  L ondon 23:24, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete Classic example of a performer category. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:07, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People banned from entering China

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 18:08, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting people banned from entering china


 * Nominator's rationale: For the people in this category (e.g. Justin Bieber, Harrison Ford) being banned from China is WP:NON-DEFINING. A list (which could also explain the background of each persons banning) may be appropriate. Other subcats of Category:Excluded people also look dubious - e.g. Steve Rosenberg was banned from entering Ukraine for 1 day - is that really defining? DexDor(talk) 06:48, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * delete In two cases (Ford and Gere) it's simply derivative of some sort of support for the Dalai Lama; one suspects that some similar political expression is the cause for the other two. I have my doubts that "holders of political opinions disliked by the PRC" is a reasonable categorization, but in any case, that's not what we have here. Mangoe (talk) 17:45, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment I had recently raised issues on Category_talk:People_banned_from_entering_the_United_States regarding the criteria of that category. Will you support the deletion of that category as well? Capitals00 (talk) 16:32, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
 * , I would support its deletion. Mangoe (talk) 17:00, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, and categorization should only be for permanent characteristics (not for current status). DexDor(talk) 06:18, 30 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete -- Refusals tend to relate to particular visa applications in particular circumstances. Some bans will be the result of criminal convictions; others of expressed opinions.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:41, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Songs written by D.O.E.

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Songs written by John Maultsby. -- Tavix ( talk ) 16:04, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting songs written by d.o.e.


 * Nominator's rationale: Seems weird to have a category about a subject whose article has been deleted. See Articles for deletion/D.O.E.  Onel 5969  TT me 14:21, 4 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Nominator mistakes the different purposes of an article and a category. An article contains text relating to something that is notable. A category groups together items by significant similarities. The songwriters of a song would be a significant similarity, whether the songwriter is notable or not. --Richhoncho (talk) 11:32, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Support renaming as per Starcheer below. --Richhoncho (talk) 21:15, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep but rename to Category:Songs written by John Maultsby since D.O.E. isn't notable enough for an article and the person mentioned in these articles is a songwriter named John Maultsby. Should Maultsby be notable enough for an article someday and the article is called D.O.E. per WP:COMMONNAME, the category can be renamed. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 17:32, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete, don't rename, since John Maultsby was merely one of many co-writers of the songs. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:09, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ℯ  xplicit  04:49, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Epic science fiction films

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 18:13, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting epic science fiction films


 * Nominator's rationale: No clear criteria for inclusion. Not likely to be one, since "epic" doesn't have a crisp definition. Mikeblas (talk) 03:12, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * leaning oppose but the whole Category:Epic films structure is problematic, not because epic film isn't something of a genre (or at least style) of film-making, but because the word is used so sloppily in advertising and the like. Surely there are SF films that fit into the genre; perhaps the category would vanish per WP:SMALLCAT were it pruned, but I'm not convinced that the imprecise boundary is reason for deletion. Mangoe (talk) 13:50, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete "Epic science-fiction" is not a well defined cross-genre set, unlike "biblical epics" or "epic fantasy" (aka high fantasy), which are cohesive and distinct sub-genres of the epic. Betty Logan (talk) 20:07, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete as per Betty Logan's reasoning and nominator's point that there is no clear definition of "epic sci fi films" –Joeyconnick (talk) 20:17, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete small genre with no definition, so how does it help people out? Andrzejbanas (talk) 16:06, 28 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Galaxy Express 999

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 06:56, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting galaxy express 999


 * Nominator's rationale: With only four articles, all of which are already interlinked, this is too few members for categorization (WP:SMALLCAT) —Farix (t &#124; c) 09:57, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 06:44, 16 November 2017 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment: The category now contains 5 articles, not sure though if the fifth article belongs there. -- Black Falcon (talk) 00:53, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ℯ  xplicit  00:42, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It looks like with your previous comment you are supporting the nomination without explicitly saying so. Is that a correct interpretation? Marcocapelle (talk) 18:20, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. The fifth article is indeed not relevant. &mdash;Xezbeth (talk) 17:03, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Military physicians
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename all. No consensus on merging at this time, that may need to be dealt with on its own. -- Tavix ( talk ) 15:58, 24 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Rename Category:Military physicians to Category:military doctors
 * Rename Category:American military physicians to Category:American military doctors
 * Rename Category:Argentine military physicians to Category:Argentine military doctors
 * Rename Category:Australian military physicians to Category:Australian military doctors
 * Rename Category:Bangladeshi military physicians to Category:Bangladeshi military doctors
 * Rename Category:Belgian military physicians to Category:Belgian military doctors
 * Rename Category:Bolivian military physicians to Category:Bolivian military doctors
 * Merge Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina military physicians up, since it only has one entry
 * Rename Category:Brazilian military physicians to Category:Brazilian military doctors
 * Rename Category:Bulgarian military physicians to Category:Bulgarian military doctors
 * Rename Category:Burmese military physicians to Category:Burmese military doctors
 * Rename Category:Canadian military physicians to Category:Canadian military doctors
 * Rename Category:Croatian military physicians to Category:Croatian military doctors
 * Rename Category:Czech military physicians to Category:Czech military doctors
 * Rename Category:Dutch military physicians to Category:Dutch military doctors
 * Rename Category:French military physicians to Category:French military doctors
 * Rename Category:German military physicians to Category:Germany military doctors
 * Rename Category:Israeli military physicians to Category:Israeli military doctors
 * Rename Category:Italian military physicians to Category:Italian military doctors
 * Rename Category:Japanese military physicians to Category:Japanese military doctors
 * Rename Category:Mexican military physicians to Category:Mexican military doctors
 * Rename Category:New Zealand military physicians to cateegory:New Zealand miltiary doctors
 * Rename Category:Nigerian military physicians to Category:Nigerian military doctors
 * Rename Category:Norwegian military physicians to Category:Norwegian military doctors
 * Rename Category:Ottoman military physicians to Category:Ottoman military doctors
 * Rename Category:Pakistani military physicians to Category:Pakistani military doctors
 * Rename Category:Polish military physicians to Category:Polsih military doctors
 * Rename Category:Romanian military physicians to Category:Romanian military doctors
 * Rename Category:Spanish military physicians to Category:Spanish military doctors
 * Rename Category:Sri Lankan military physicians to Category:Sri Lankan military doctors
 * Rename Category:Turkish military physicians to Category:Turkish military doctors
 * Nominator's rationale doctor is a more common word than physician. When paired iwth "military" it is not at all ambiguous, there is no other meaining. If we combine "Army doctor" and "Army medical doctor" for example, they have twice as much occurance in google searching as Army physcian, and army surgeon comes in at half the rare of army medical doctor. Add to these issues that in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Australia, New Zealand and Sri Lanka of the coutries listed above British uage applies, and physician is a more limited term, which rarely describes doctors in the army. Some suggest using "medical officer", but at least in the case of the Polish andCroatian cats and maybe some others some of the people involved were part of irregular resistence forces during WWII, so it is not clear they were officers. I also have a sense that physician was a more common term in the past, but in general usage is becoming even less common now, but I have not been able to analyize sources enough to suggest this.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:15, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose the upmerge of Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina military physicians  since it only has one entry.  We may well find more entries.  And I don't see why this should be the only category with a single entry which is to be abolished. There are many entries in national catorisation of all kinds which only have one entry.  Given the history of Bosnia it is actually quite likely that there are more military physicians to be added to this category. Rathfelder (talk) 16:48, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom and also rename the Bosnian one. No problem with having a small subcat in a 'by nationality' scheme. Oculi (talk) 17:12, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Rename most - Possibly not the American one, as physician seems to be local usage.  Removing small categories (by upmerging) may need to be a separate exercise.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:43, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Even in the USA I don't see much use of the term Military physician. Military surgeon is more common there, and in some other places, but the scope of military medicine has changed.  Not so much surgery but more psychiatry.  I'm happy for these all to be renamed military doctors. Rathfelder (talk) 10:53, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.