Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 October 6



Category:Musical quintets

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Symbol move vote.svg Relisted at Categories for discussion/Log/2017 October 22. -- Black Falcon (talk) 17:40, 22 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting musical quintets


 * Nominator's rationale: In the on-going project to deal with the various "groups by size" categories, we've finally reached a case where there are significant groups organized to play music written for a five member ensemble of specified instruments. With the exception of the string quintet, of which we have only one example (the Boccherini Quintet), these are all in subcats. Evrything else is, yes, a five member band, or at least a band which had five members at some point in its history. And as for the larger numbers, this isn't defining. Mangoe (talk) 22:02, 6 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete: trivial category.  This categorization isn't helpful.  If we are going to categorize bands based on the number of members, why not "bands with two men and three women" or "bands with an odd number of members"?  Bands containing five members have important in common with one another (with the possible exception of string quintets, which is a more specific category).  Yes (band) is a good example:  It is tagged as a "musical quintet", which is 99% correct (Yes had five members over most of its history, with brief exceptions) -- but tells us nothing interesting about the band.  If you were to list the bands most similar to Yes, they would have various numbers of members.  Deep Purple (five members) is much closer to Led Zeppelin (four) than it is to Yes (five).  And many bands have changed their number of members without changing their sound. &mdash; Lawrence King ( talk ) 23:16, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment This was previously at CFD and kept only seven days ago. What has changed since then?  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 08:08, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The previous nomination was an omnium gatherum of something like thirty categories of musical groups by number; the primary reason given for keeping by almost everyone was that it was to much to deal with at once. The decision accepted that smaller nominations might succeed. Mangoe (talk) 11:04, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep – my reading of the recent cfd is that editors thought that each should be considered separately: that at some point the number in a band becomes irrelevant. IMO quartets should be kept and octets deleted. I note that Category:Musical quintets has 3 subcats which appear to be entirely valid, whereas Category:Musical sextets (and larger) have no subcats. So I would keep 5 or fewer (possibly as container categories) and delete the rest. Oculi (talk) 09:30, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The possibility of a container cat did occur to me, but it seems to me that it would be an attractive nuisance which would eventually fill up with bands again. Perhaps you could suggest a rename. Mangoe (talk) 11:04, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep - it is considered defining enough to be mentioned in reliable sources that a band is a quintet, or a quartet, or a trio, etc - and also if a band changed from one format to the other. Our own articles will often mention in the opening statement the style and size of a band (do a Wikipedia search for "five piece band" for example). And while different styles of music are played across different sizes of band, the sound that a trio makes tends to be different to the sound a quintet makes due to the increased instrumentation.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  11:46, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Containerise and purge of all articles that do not fit into the existing subcategories or any new ones that may be suggested. Except in classical music where the group is playing pieces written for a specific combination, the number of players is largely random. Peterkingiron (talk) 12:58, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The amount of players is considered important, and often defining, in pop and rock music. See Power trio and Musical_ensemble for some indication of the relevance of the number of players.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  15:50, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The two problems I'm seeing are that already mentioned (the variability in numbers) and that it is common for the various small-number groups to be backed up by session musicians, so that the number stated isn't the real number of musicians. And when you read the article on ensembles you will find that the power trio and the three most common variants on quartets are the only really standard configurations; after that the article more or less admits that there is little or no pattern. Mangoe (talk) 18:39, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, I agree people can have personal opinions on the importance of the number of people in a rock group; nevertheless, the number of people is mentioned in reliable sources, so it is seen as significant enough by enough people for a cat to be useful, even if only to create lists like these:, . Though numbers higher than five are mentioned, it is not with any frequency, but numbers one, two, three, four, and five are common enough to be useful cats. Agreed that bands can fluctuate in their numbers, as they can fluctuate in the nationality of their members, so bands like Fleetwood Mac are always going to be a problem. But we don't decide to do away with nationality cats such as American blues rock musical groups and British blues rock musical groups because some groups straddle both cats.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  17:32, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep – There are a number of performing groups, classical and others, with "Quintet" as part of their name, so it can't be regarded as trivial or non-defining. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:28, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * If you will re-read the nomination, this was addressed. Wind quintets et al. live in their own categories currently beneath this. What's left for this cat are pop groups where the number of member is not, as a rule, defining or even constant. Mangoe (talk) 15:31, 19 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Political support categories

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  ℯ  xplicit  02:31, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting category


 * Propose deleting category


 * Propose deleting category


 * Propose deleting category


 * Propose deleting category


 * Propose deleting category


 * Nominator's rationale: These six categories violate Inappropriate types of user categories - Categories which group users by advocacy of a position.  Buaidh  18:56, 6 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete. Violates black-letter Wikipedia policy, as Buaidh stated. &mdash; Lawrence King ( talk ) 23:18, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete all per nom. VegaDark (talk) 09:29, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:47, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Was going to nominate one of these myself. Glad it has been done as a group nomination. These are perfect examples of inappropriate user categories as both "divisive, provocative, or otherwise disruptive" and "which group users by advocacy of a position" AusLondonder (talk) 10:06, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. These are clear-cut examples of advocacy that is prohibited on Wikipedia, even in userspace. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 13:32, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per perfectly succinct nomination. -- Black Falcon (talk) 17:39, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete: Clear violations of "Inappropriate types of user categories... Categories which group users by advocacy of a position" in WP:USERCAT. Now if we could only stop editors from inserting political opinions about US presidential politics into completely unlelated discussions... --Guy Macon (talk) 18:21, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Related Question: Why are some of the cats listed in Categories for discussion/User/Archive/August 2007 still around? Were they recreated? --Guy Macon (talk) 18:28, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It certainly seems so. Black Falcon took the initiative to delete one, though - it's still showing up as a blue link for me, but the logs show it to have been deleted. Another still exists as a redirect to the Category:Wikipedians who retain deleted categories on their userpages, a category whose existence honestly baffles me. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 21:22, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I just deleted the other 2 categories as well. -- Black Falcon (talk) 22:34, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * In regards to Category:Wikipedians who retain deleted categories on their userpages, the gist of that category existing is that some people re-added categories to their userpages that were deleted at CfD, thus creating redlinks. These redlinks were causing issues at Special:Wantedpages, so one user decided that re-creating the categories in question as hard redirects to that category was a better solution than leaving them as redlinks.  Personally I disagree with this solution and would rather see these categories stay red (or an even better solution, we have a policy against users re-adding deleted categories to their userpages so there are no redlinks/redirected links to have to deal with at all) but we need a wider discussion as to what the permanent plan is regarding this.  I worry that creating a bluelink like this somewhat legitimizes the process of re-adding deleted user categories that were removed by consensus. VegaDark (talk) 04:04, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Call for WP:SNOW close - These categories do not have a snowball's chance in hell of avoiding deletion at this point, so there is no need to keep this CfD open. --Guy Macon (talk) 22:10, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * We don't need everyone to comment on this CfD, but we can certainly wait seven days to close it. Yours aye,  Buaidh  19:19, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It has been 9 days now... --Guy Macon (talk) 19:32, 15 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:List of shows based on Outfit7 apps

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 07:30, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting list of shows based on outfit7 apps


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT, Outfit7 only has Talking Tom and Friends as a television show. Merge to Talking Tom and Friends. AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 16:32, 6 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:NiGHTS

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 07:32, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting nights


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT category. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 14:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Per nom. There is also evidence that suggests that indef'd sockmaster Sonic N800 requested (and then primarily handled population of) this category. Difficult to track as they change IPs and ranges fairly frequently. -- ferret (talk) 16:37, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment Was certainly requested by an IP of Sonic N800, and I've just blocked that IP. -- ferret (talk) 16:59, 6 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete per above. Sergecross73   msg me  14:20, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. The 2 video game articles are already in an appropriate subcat of 'Sega video games', so no need to upmerge. -- Black Falcon (talk) 22:36, 7 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hardlight games

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 07:35, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting hardlight games


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT category with no parent article about the studio. Even if it was notable it could easily be confused with hard light games.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 14:52, 6 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Per nom. There is also evidence that suggests that indef'd sockmaster Sonic N800 requested (and then primarily handled population of) this category. Difficult to track as they change IPs and ranges fairly frequently. -- ferret (talk) 16:38, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment Was certainly requested by an IP of Sonic N800, but it was a while back. -- ferret (talk) 16:59, 6 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete - per above. Sergecross73   msg me  19:55, 9 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

18th-century elections by continent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge as nominated. -- Black Falcon (talk) 17:50, 15 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:1701 elections in Europe to Category:1701 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1702 elections in Europe to Category:1702 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1704 elections in Europe to Category:1704 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1705 elections in Europe to Category:1705 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1708 elections in Europe to Category:1708 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1710 elections in Europe to Category:1710 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1713 elections in Europe to Category:1713 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1715 elections in Europe to Category:1715 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1722 elections in Europe to Category:1722 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1724 elections in Europe to Category:1724 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1727 elections in Europe to Category:1727 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1733 elections in Europe to Category:1733 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1734 elections in Europe to Category:1734 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1741 elections in Europe to Category:1741 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1747 elections in Europe to Category:1747 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1748 elections in Europe to Category:1748 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1751 elections in Europe to Category:1751 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1754 elections in Europe to Category:1754 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1761 elections in Europe to Category:1761 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1764 elections in Europe to Category:1764 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1768 elections in Europe to Category:1768 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1774 elections in Europe to Category:1774 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1780 elections in Europe to Category:1780 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1783 elections in Europe to Category:1783 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1784 elections in Europe to Category:1784 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1790 elections in Europe to Category:1790 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1791 elections in Europe to Category:1791 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1792 elections in Europe to Category:1792 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1795 elections in Europe to Category:1795 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1796 elections in Europe to Category:1796 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1797 elections in Europe to Category:1797 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1798 elections in Europe to Category:1798 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1799 elections in Europe to Category:1799 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1800 elections in Europe to Category:1800 elections and Category:18th-century elections in Europe
 * Propose merging Category:1735 elections in North America to Category:1735 elections and Category:1735 in North America and Category:18th-century elections in North America
 * Propose merging Category:1773 elections in North America to Category:1773 elections and Category:1773 in North America and Category:18th-century elections in North America
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, mostly just one article per category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:54, 6 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Merge; there weren't many elective positions during this time, so not many elections, and thus not many election articles. I've found a few more (articles in Category:Papal conclaves), but aside from the conclave of 1799-1800, none of them were in a year category (some, like 1721, didn't even have a year category); I've thus put all of them into Category:18th-century elections in Europe.  Nyttend (talk) 21:25, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Merge but we do not need the Europe/America split. I am not sure that adding Papal conclaves adds much.Since these take place in secret, there is little to be said except that they happened .  Peterkingiron (talk) 13:02, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Peterkingiron, please check Special:Randomincategory/Papal conclaves and refresh a few times to get a few articles. Many of them have a good deal of information, as you can see in the first random one I picked, Papal conclave, 1492.  Remember that the choice of a pope was once far more significant to the world in general than it is now (even if it weren't banned, can you imagine any political leaders bothering to cast a papal veto nowadays?), so while the vote itself is held in secret, the circumstances are highly public and have a lot that can be said.  Nyttend (talk) 20:14, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Point accepted. Peterkingiron (talk) 21:16, 9 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. There's a big chunk of the 19th century for which we should probably do this too — in an era when there were very few actual elections being held at all, it does nobody any favours to obsessively subcategorize the few articles that do exist as narrowly as we subcategorize contemporary ones. Bearcat (talk) 22:26, 13 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Osmosis Jones

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was:  at Categories for discussion/Log/2017 October 16.  ℯ  xplicit  02:31, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting osmosis jones


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT (3 articles), unlikely to grow much larger. Even a navbox would be hard to justify. Trivialist (talk) 02:33, 6 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete for Now With no objection to recreation if it ever gets up to 5 articles. RevelationDirect (talk) 08:52, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment There are now four articles. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 21:36, 7 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.