Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 August 9



Category:Orthodox Knights of the Holy Sepulchre

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: convert to list and delete. The list is initially at Greek_Orthodox_Church_of_Jerusalem. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:29, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Orthodox Knights of the Holy Sepulchre to Category:Members of the Byzantine Order of the Holy Sepulchre
 * Nominator's rationale: Internet searches indicate "Byzantine Order of the Holy Sepulchre" as the most common (and seemingly acceptable) name for the entity, perhaps in good competition with "Greek Orthodox Order of the Holy Sepulchre". At least any of the two would be more accurate than the previous one. Furthermore, not all invested members seem to apply the title "Knight". There are also various other titles among clergy (even non-Greek Orthodox), see for instance Pierbattista Pizzaballa. On a furtner note, a main article is missing. Chicbyaccident (talk) 20:41, 9 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Support adding "Members"/Neutral on Org Name: You're right, this really needs a main article to distinguish between this, the Order of the Holy Sepulchre, the Canons Regular of the Holy Sepulchre, the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre and the Greek Orthodox Order of the Holy Sepulchre (or are those last 2 the same?). Until we get that main article to give us the name, no objection.RevelationDirect (talk) 03:01, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Also Neutral on deletion being discussed below. RevelationDirect (talk) 23:39, 10 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:OCAWARD and WP:NONDEF, the category contains modern politicians rather than members of a religious order. An article wíll probably be useful though. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:10, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Listify then delete -- This looks like a NN award. I will let others work out what the appropriate name for the list would be.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:59, 10 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Advocates of the Fourteen Words

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete as over-categorisation on the grounds given below. I note that the main article already has a list of advocates, and that the member pages of this category are all otherwise categorised as alt-right etc. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:42, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting advocates of the fourteen words


 * Nominator's rationale: It's either a BLP violation, or glorifying white nationalism. It's certainly not a "defining characteristic" as I understand the term. Calton | Talk 09:51, 9 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:OVERLAPCAT. All of these people seem well-categorized in the Category:White nationalists tree and this doesn't seem like it would aid navigation. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:08, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Calton, glorifying? Would you like to retract that? Are you claiming that that was the intention of creating that category? Has anything but valid or good faith attempted cites of RS been made? Would listing a murderer as a murderer be glorifying murder? Perspex03 (talk) 13:05, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * glorifying? Would you like to retract that?
 * Let me think about that.
 * Nope. I can put into bolder type if you like, so it's easier for you to read. --Calton | Talk 13:27, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Calton, I see you've done well weaselling out of answering the questions which might require some intellectual justification. Perhaps you were a weasel in past life? Have a fantastic day. Perspex03 (talk) 13:39, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Calton, I see you've done well weaselling out of answering the questions which might require some intellectual justification. Perhaps you were a weasel in past life? Have a fantastic day. Perspex03 (talk) 13:39, 11 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete, per RevelationDirect and per WP:OPINIONCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:15, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 * delete no useful article navigation purpose served by this category Hmains (talk) 01:49, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:48, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep - the articles included in this category are individuals who have explicitly endorsed and/or published versions of the Fourteen Words. It's a defining characteristic (and not an overlapping category) because there's rarely perfect agreement in ideology between them: some are categorized as white nationalists, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, far-right whatever, etcetera, but the various members of this category don't fit neatly under the tree of any of those other categories. There are a few persons in the category who should not be included, but we can fix that. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:12, 24 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:New areas at state level

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:New areas (China). – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:47, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:New areas at state level to Category:New areas
 * Nominator's rationale: rename per main article New areas. Possibly add a disambiguator to the category name like Category:New areas (China). Marcocapelle (talk) 06:36, 9 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Rename to New Areas. Matches main article and better worded in English. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:09, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * REname to Category:New areas (China) to prevent this picking up non-Chinese articles. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:01, 10 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:S.H.E members

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:21, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting s.h.e members


 * Nominator's rationale: Fails WP:SMALLCAT, only 3 members and impossible to contain more. Each member is already in Category:S.H.E. Timmyshin (talk) 05:13, 9 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep - part of Category:Musicians by band where 3 has been regarded as the minimum (although it is apparent that many have just 2 members). Oculi (talk) 11:35, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge to parent. We really do not need two separate categories.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:03, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep on procedural grounds. See similar discussion Categories for discussion/Log/2017 September 27. ℯ xplicit 03:52, 20 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:2020 AFC U-23 Championship

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:45, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting 2020 afc u-23 championship


 * Nominator's rationale: Only one item Hhkohh (talk) 13:30, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Merge with a category on the championship series or with Asian Football Confederation. The creation of the article is perhaps not premature, but that of the category certainly is.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:06, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Weak keep - I added a second article and eventually there will be more. I've no big objection to merging to Category:AFC U-23 Championship as the category truly is premature, but I also see little harm in retaining it for the next 1.5 years. -- Black Falcon (talk) 20:05, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ℯ xplicit 00:58, 9 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Assassination attempts

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename per nomination. There is consensus that it needs to be changed somehow. Making "attempts" the parent of successful assassinations would be counter-intuitive to some readers, and would be contrary to the current hierarchy of  as a sub-cat of, etc. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:47, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Assassination attempts to Category:Failed assassination attempts
 * Nominator's rationale: This category's page says that te attempt failed, but an "attempt" includes successful assassinations, too. The new name will thus provide clarity as to the scope of the category. &thinsp;&mdash; Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)&thinsp; 08:15, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment alternatively, you could just parent the Category:Assassinations with this category. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:05, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Either Carlos' solution, or the nominator can create and populate Category:Failed assassination attempts as a subcategory of Category:Assassination attempts. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:34, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ℯ xplicit 00:58, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Lean Toward Marcocapelle's solution but no objection to other approaches. RevelationDirect (talk) 23:43, 10 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Cooperative banking by country

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename and merge as nominated. There is more work to be done within this category tree; additional steps should be made with a new nomination. <b style="color:#4B0082;">ℯ</b> xplicit  00:23, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Cooperative banking by country to Category:Cooperative banks by country (over redirect)
 * Propose merging Category:Cooperative banking in Australia to Category:Cooperative banking in Oceania and Category:Cooperatives in Australia‎
 * Propose merging Category:Cooperative banking in Canada to Category:Cooperative banking in North America, removing the broader page History of cooperatives in Canada
 * Propose merging Category:Cooperative banking in Norway to Category:Cooperative banking in Europe, removing the article Norwegian Savings Banks Association
 * Propose renaming Category:Cooperative banking in the United States to Category:Cooperative banks in the United States


 * Nominator's rationale: these categories have hardly any general content about the topic of cooperative banking, but only articles on banks. The sub-cat Category:Credit unions by country is well-populated, and Category:Mutual savings banks by country has three sub-cats, but those national sub-categories do not need a "Cooperative banking in Foo" layer above them. Some other countries already have categories "Cooperative banks in Foo" and there was a Speedy-page proposal to rename them to "banking", but this was opposed on the grounds that these categories work well as sub-cats of "Banks in Foo". It will be more useful to do away with those that are a redundant layer, and rename others from "banking" to "banks". As for the two articles that I have suggested for removal, I have added "See also" links to these on the sub-category pages. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:31, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 * That seems a very sensible proposal. Rathfelder (talk) 17:39, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Prefer targets relating to whether they are "mutual savings banks" or "credit unions". Note UK building societies are mutual, but not coops.  They are not the same.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:45, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The mutual savings banks and credit unions categories will be kept as child categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:43, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <b style="color:#4B0082;">ℯ</b> xplicit 06:08, 25 July 2018 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <b style="color:#4B0082;">ℯ</b> xplicit 00:58, 9 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 * To break the logjam Suggest we have one parent container Category:Cooperative and mutual banks by country, under which we can have a category for each country (or several), according to what exists in that country, whether coops, mutual, credit unions, or whatever. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:09, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * It's probably clearer for everyone if we finish the nominated change (renaming "banking" to "banks") first and then start a fresh discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:17, 11 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Support, but I think we need to go further: there is a grand-parent Category:Collaborative finance which includes cooperative and mutual banks as well as crowdfunding, peer-to-peer and ROSCA. This should be a valid level to split by continent. Then we would go up some further levels and split Category:Social economy on a per-country level. By pushing the low-level intersections sufficiently up the category tree, we would avoid too narrow and too isolated intersections, effectively sanitizing the sub-tree to become properly filled and developed. --PanchoS (talk) 07:23, 11 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.