Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 December 30



Category:Civic and political organizations of China

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename as suggested. ~ Rob 13 Talk 10:37, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Civic and political organizations of China to Category:Political organizations in China
 * Nominator's rationale: None of these organisations are "civic" Rathfelder (talk) 21:47, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Support renaming - the category has 2 subcategories, both labeled as political, and 1 article China Federation for Defending the Diaoyu Islands with no clear reason why it is a "civic" organization --DannyS712 (talk) 08:42, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, though it is merging rather than renaming. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:54, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Support merge. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:50, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support merging per above. Ben5218 (talk) 22:29, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support merging per above. Oculi (talk) 11:41, 31 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Draft dodgers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 18:38, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Draft dodgers to Category:Draft evaders
 * Nominator's rationale: Article and main category is Draft evasion, which is less pejorative Rathfelder (talk) 21:46, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Support to keep consistency --DannyS712 (talk) 08:43, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Support for both reasons above. - Babel41 (talk) 03:12, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Strongly Support - This change is long overdue. Where I come from, "Draft dodgers" is highly pejorative; in contrast, "Draft evaders" is a neutral term, far more appropriate for Wikipedia. Anomalous+0 (talk) 04:53, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Research organisations in Qatar

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 11:21, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Research organisations in Qatar to Category:Research institutes in Qatar
 * Nominator's rationale: This category in much more in line with the well established category of Research institutes in Foo than the much smaller one of Research organisations in Foo Rathfelder (talk) 21:44, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Support to keep consistency --DannyS712 (talk) 08:43, 31 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Religion in Austin, Texas

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. ~ Rob 13 Talk 10:45, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting religion in austin, texas


 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT, there are only one article and one subcategory in here. The article does not need to be merged as it is already in Category:Catholic Church in Texas and Category:Organizations based in Austin, Texas. The subcategory does not need to be merged as it is already in Category:Places of worship in Texas and Category:Buildings and structures in Austin, Texas. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:18, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge for Now with no objections to recreating if we ever get above 5 articles. RevelationDirect (talk) 18:24, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge not enough to justify this cateogry.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:15, 6 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Mahamaya Technical University

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam Technical University. ~ Rob 13 Talk 16:18, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Mahamaya Technical University to Category:Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam Technical University
 * Nominator's rationale: This university has been merged with Gautam Buddha Technical University reforming the erstwhile Uttar Pradesh Technical University which is now named Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam Technical University. The article has been merged but the category seems to have been missed. Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 19:03, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Support- yep, this is uncontroversial maintenance. I would also recommend renaming the target category to Category:Dr. A. P. J. Abdul Kalam Technical University, with spaces between the initials. Reyk YO! 08:11, 3 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Support- Yes, this is uncontroversial. We should move ahead with it. Abhask (talk) 12:07, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indian fantasy comedy films

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. ~ Rob 13 Talk 16:21, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Indian fantasy comedy films to Category:Indian fantasy-comedy films
 * Nominator's rationale: Be consistent with the parent category Fantasy-comedy films. Kailash29792</b> (talk)  17:10, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * ✅ no problem! that's right! Srivin (talk) 17:33, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Boconnoc
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 11:29, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Boconnoc to Category:People from Cornwall
 * Nominator's rationale: Merge as per WP:SMALLCAT - only has three members, all from the same family. GrahamHardy (talk) 16:40, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge Boconnoc is a small community, population 96, so there is little chance for this category to grow....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 21:47, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recreational sublabial drugs
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: relisted at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_12. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 11:34, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting recreational sublabial drugs


 * Nominator's rationale: Various similar categories have been deleted in the past on the grounds that "recreational" is hard to define, and we generally don't classify drugs by how they are taken. Le Deluge (talk) 11:02, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep I made this specifically because I couldn't find the information in any logical way. I was researching and trying to find exactly this across multiple cultures: "What things across time/place cultures did people 'chew'?" The argument falls flat that "we generally don't" when users come looking for a useful organization and we've deleted the information they want. Both recreational and sub-labial are easy to define by the same inclusion criteria the rest of the project uses: by citable sources. If the article text can cite that a drug is used recreationally, and article text can cite methods of use, then it seems very obvious that users should be able to organize and navigate by those criteria. A secondary argument that these criteria are trivial, but since the classifications and methods of use are essential as defined by NGOs, medically and legally. SchmuckyTheCat (talk) 03:05, 1 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jews and Judaism in Athens
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Jews and Judaism in Greece. ~ Rob 13 <sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">Talk 16:23, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Jews and Judaism in Athens to Category:Jews and Judaism in Greece
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, there are only one article and one subcategory in here. Only the article needs to be merged, because the subcategory is already in Category:Places of worship in Athens and Category:Synagogues in Greece. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:35, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep. Not necessarily small, see only Jewish Sites and Organizations in Athens. Over time, these will certainly receive a Wikipedia article, and some events, too. PanchoS (talk) 03:25, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Support "by city" categories, of any religion, should be the rare exception. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:02, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Upmerge We do not need a category for 4 article. Yes, we may at some point in the future have more articles, but not every synagogue is notable, so that there have been more does not say we will ever have more articles. Categories are meant to be built in a way so they are useful now, not in some mythic future that we cannot know will exist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 07:32, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Umpmerge for Now Such a small category does not aid navigation, no objection to recreating in the future if the article count grows. RevelationDirect (talk) 18:26, 26 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Chao Phraya Express Boat
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 11:37, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting chao phraya express boat


 * Nominator's rationale: No longer warrants an WP:EPONYMOUS category now that most members have been moved into child Category:Chao Phraya Express Boat piers‎. Paul_012 (talk) 03:36, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose. It seems like the merge should have taken place in the opposite direction; i.e the piers articles should be listed under Category:Chao Phraya Express Boat, and the Category:Chao Phraya Express Boat piers be deleted. A really paranoid android (talk) 14:26, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Marvin The Paranoid, why? The subcategory is also categorised under Category:Buildings and structures on the Chao Phraya River and Category:Piers in Thailand. How would you suggest handling the memberships? --Paul_012 (talk) 10:56, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * - to me, the primary entity is the Boat article (where "Boat" is being used in the sense of "regular, scheduled, boat route" rather than any individual boat that makes the route), rather than the piers that are part of the Boat route. The categorization should reflect that. So, if a category were essential, then one would keep the Boat category, and list the Boat and all the pier articles under it. And delete the pier category for the boat. I'd keep the Category:Buildings and structures on the Chao Phraya River and Category:Piers in Thailand as they are. That being said, I don't think that the categories are essential. I'm changing my opinion (and vote, I guess): neither the Category:Chao Phraya Express Boat nor the Category:Chao Phraya Express Boat piers‎ serve any useful purpose, since the article for the Category:Chao Phraya Express Boat already links to the pier articles. So, the categorization is redundant. Both the Category:Chao Phraya Express Boat and the Category:Chao Phraya Express Boat piers‎ categories should be removed IMHO. A really paranoid android (talk) 12:23, 1 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Power Linux distributions
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: relisted at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_February_23. ~ Rob 13 <sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">Talk 03:06, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Power Linux distributions to Category:Power ISA Linux distributions
 * Nominator's rationale: The name of the architecture the Linux distributions supports is called the Power ISA, not Power. 99Electrons (talk) 03:01, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * ✅ As someone who created it, NO PROBLEM! -- he is a fanboy/employee of IBM! I am agree even on Category:IBM Power ISA Linux distributions! Editor-1 (talk) 04:48, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I can find no reference where these Linux versions are referred to by this name. They are all either called Linux on Power, or Power Linux. I don't see the "ISA" term used at all. A really paranoid android (talk) 14:21, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It isn't claimed that these Linux distributions have "Power ISA" in their name. This category is for Linux distributions that run on computers that implement the Power ISA. It contains, as it did when it was nominated: Debian, Fedora (operating system), and Red Hat Enterprise Linux. None of these distributions have Power in their name. And what has "Linux on Power" or "Power Linux" got to do with this discussion? These are not the names of any Linux distribution (AFAIK); they are IBM phrases/terms that describe Linux running on Power-related things, and the former is also just a partial match for "Linux on Power Systems", which means what it says: Linux running on IBM Power Systems. 99Electrons (talk) 21:09, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * If I understand you correctly, you are saying that given that the Power architecture is now open, any implementing vendor could run Linux for the Power architecture on their hardware, and therefore, the name should change to reflect that neutrality? Are there any real world examples of this? If not, I'm still opposed. A really paranoid android (talk) 12:42, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 * You've completely misunderstood me. I'm saying Category:Power Linux distributions was created for Linux distributions that support the Power ISA, but it doesn't give the name of the architecture correctly—it mistakenly shortens it to Power. That's wrong, there's no such architecture called Power. 99Electrons (talk) 23:40, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 * With this rationale a rename to Category:Linux distributions supporting Power ISA would probably make more sense. However, the articles don't seem to mention anything about Power ISA, so I wonder if this is a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:43, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The proposed title is just following the convention set by Category:Linux distributions by processor architecture. The articles will have no to minimal mentions of Power ISA because Linux distributions have a habit of not referring to the ISA by name because of other issues, such as application binary interfaces, etc. 99Electrons (talk) 04:23, 14 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment: There's a discussion about the use of "Power Architecture" on Wikipedia that's relevant to this discussion. 99Electrons (talk) 00:45, 23 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Power operating systems
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: relisted at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_February_23. ~ Rob 13 <sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">Talk 03:06, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Power operating systems to Category:Power ISA operating systems
 * Nominator's rationale: The name of the architecture the OSes in this category support is called the Power ISA, not Power. 99Electrons (talk) 03:00, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


 * ✅ no problem! that's right! Editor-1 (talk) 04:50, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose. See also my vote on a similar rename, just above this one. I have found no reference to the operating system that uses the ISA term. A really paranoid android (talk) 14:22, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It is irrelevant to this discussion whether the operating systems have "Power ISA" in their name or not. The rationale given by the nomination is still stands: these operating systems support the Power ISA, and since Category:Power operating systems is a child of Category:Operating systems by architecture, Category:Power operating systems needs to name the architecture correctly. There's no such architecture called Power. IBM's second-generation RISC architecture evolved as such: Performance Optimization With Enhanced RISC (POWER) → PowerPC → Power ISA. Note that Power Architecture was a term promoted by IBM marketing in the 2000s to refer to everything that could be related in some way to what was then called PowerPC. It's not an architecture, despite its misleading name. 99Electrons (talk) 21:26, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * With this rationale a rename to Category:Operating systems supporting Power ISA would probably make more sense. However, the articles don't seem to mention anything about Power ISA, so I wonder if this is a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:46, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The proposed title is just following the convention set by Category:Linux distributions by processor architecture. The articles will have no to minimal mentions of Power ISA because Linux distributions have a habit of not referring to the ISA by name because of other issues, such as application binary interfaces, etc. 99Electrons (talk) 04:24, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * This is the key reason, I'm on the "oppose" side of things. If common usage doesn't use the ISA term, who does it benefit if the category name is changed? It seems like this would be a very pedantic way to handle this topic, which is not going to be followed by the majority of readers. It may be imprecise as it stands, but IMHO, changing things to be more precise, will make things less usable. A really paranoid android (talk) 00:09, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I didn't state that the common name for "Power ISA" is "Power", I stated the reason why a person wouldn't find many mentions of "Power ISA" among Linux distributions. This reason is because for some architectures, the convention amongst free software, which Linux distributions are subject to, is to refer the port name instead of that of the architecture. This can be due to a number of reasons: for brevity, or because the same architecture is used by multiple incompatible platforms, necessitating a separate port to each, thus rendering the architecture irrelevant. Another reason is because of history: the architecture was called something else in the past, and instead of introducing a new port name to reflect the new architecture name, the existing port name is reused with some qualifier. As a final example, the port may require additional commonalities other than architecture: endianess, ABI, etc.
 * Free software or Linux distributions doesn't refer to the Power ISA frequently for some of the reasons outlined previously. The Power ISA is an evolution of the PowerPC architecture. Linux was ported to PowerPC first, so all ports to the PowerPC and subsequent architectures are called "ppc". Power ISA is also used in either big or little endian mode, so ports must choose one. Finally, Power ISA software uses an ABI specified by the OpenPOWER foundation that's different from the ones used by PowerPC.
 * These reasons have caused all the four Linux distributions in Category:Power Linux distributions to refer the architecture by some name other than that of the architecture:
 * Debian has a ppc64el port, which targets Power ISA 2.07 and 3.0 in the little endian mode using the 64-bit OpenPOWER ELFv2 ABI.
 * Fedora also has a ppc64el port, which supports IBM Power Systems and industry standard OpenPOWER computers (which use IBM POWER7/8/9 processors, all of which are Power ISA processors).
 * Red Hat refers to "architectures", but consistently refuses to refer to any architecture by name, using other names instead, and for the Power ISA, it names the specific processors supported and the endianess supported.
 * SUSE refers to the POWER processor series, and mentions that it's actually a ppc64el port.
 * Can we put the arguments pertaining to usage to bed now? There never was such an argument, because every argument for usage that has been put forward was based in an incorrect understanding of the situation, and has added nothing to the consensus process other than confusion.
 * Finally, for a category that's part of the Category:Linux distributions by processor architecture hierarchy, the only acceptable name for an architecture is the name of the architecture, not a partial match that's never been shown to be in use, let alone in common use. A user of this hierarchy would expect all its subcategories to refer to the architecture by its name. This signifies the relationship between the subcategories and their parent. This is especially important in the case of the Power ISA, because there are other things with similar names that differ by only capitalization, suffixes, and the inclusion of other words. Thus, it's the omission of "ISA" from "Power ISA" that's confusing and obstructive towards easy navigation. 99Electrons (talk) 01:55, 17 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment: There's a discussion about the use of "Power Architecture" on Wikipedia that's relevant to this discussion. 99Electrons (talk) 00:46, 23 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.