Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 February 24



Austrian Empire early years mergers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:35, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:1804 establishments in Austria to Category:1804 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1811 establishments in Austria to Category:1811 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1815 establishments in Austria to Category:1815 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1816 establishments in Austria to Category:1816 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1823 establishments in Austria to Category:1823 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1828 establishments in Austria to Category:1828 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1837 establishments in Austria to Category:1837 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1839 establishments in Austria to Category:1839 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1841 establishments in Austria to Category:1841 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1842 establishments in Austria to Category:1842 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1848 establishments in Austria to Category:1848 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1849 establishments in Austria to Category:1849 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1853 establishments in Austria to Category:1853 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1855 establishments in Austria to Category:1855 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1857 establishments in Austria to Category:1857 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1858 establishments in Austria to Category:1858 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1862 establishments in Austria to Category:1862 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1863 establishments in Austria to Category:1863 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Propose merging Category:1864 establishments in Austria to Category:1864 establishments in the Austrian Empire
 * Nominator's rationale Austria was not established as a state until 1919. Prior to that, it was part of Austria-Hungary, the Austrian Empire and the Holy Roman Empire. There was also the Duchy of Austria which was a state of the HRE. For the nominated years, it is ahistorical to speak of "Austria". For those years, parts of the Habsburg lands that were loosely described as the "Archduchy of Austria" did not find their way into the modern stae (e.g. South Tyrol). For example, the 1857 nom has only 1 article vorarlberg museum. The bundesland of Vorarlberg is in the modern state of Austria but was never in the Archduchy of Austria. If this nomination is successful, it will then be necessary to do ditto for the years prior to 1804 and after 1867 for the respective states. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:29, 24 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Support generally, but I hope this is only a trial nom, to be followed up by a full one, covering preceding and succeeding periods and disestablishments and "years in". Austria-Hungary was in practice a federated state with a single ruler from the 16th century until c.1918.  The constitutional arrangements changed as the Archduchy of Austria and kingdom of Bohemia ceased to be the demesne lands of HRE with the rest of HRE only being under the nominal authrority of the Emperor.  In 1867, Hungary achieved some autonomy and Germany became a separate empire, but the Hapsburg family were the direct rulers throughout the period.  Breaking countries up into separate entities according changes in the ruler's title is not helpful.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:34, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's only a trial. I intend to follow up with nominations if this succeeds. Laurel Lodged (talk) 19:01, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * but merge also to Category:1804 in Austria and Category:1800s establishments in Austria (or perhaps Category:19th century establishments in Austria), to preserve specific categorisation to the Archduchy. i.e. fuller upmerge.   Peterkingiron (talk) 16:42, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * As pointed out by nominator, this tree is not about the former Archduchy of Austria but about the modern state of Austria. The Archduchy was only what is currently Lower and Upper Austria and Vienna (see also Austrian_Empire). I don't think a diffusion by year for each of the constituent parts of the Austrian Empire is very helpful. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:18, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment, this and many other establishment trees have been created and are used by editors who apparently interpret the tree as "things in modern Austria that have been established in 18xx" and furthermore it is used for things that are generally unrelated to politics (i.e. unrelated to the Austrian Empire). It is questionable whether that interpretation is by all means wrong. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:18, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * See also this related discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:02, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per nom.GreyShark (dibra) 14:03, 16 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Trade shows in the United States

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. No consensus to change; ENGVAR does allow us to use a different term than the norm for countries where the different term is more standard. To minimize potential confusion, however, I have created the proposed name as a categoryredirect back to the existing one. Bearcat (talk) 00:49, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Trade shows in the United States to Category:Trade fairs in the United States
 * Nominator's rationale: In line with all the other similar categories Rathfelder (talk) 15:14, 24 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment, this may well be a matter of WP:ENGVAR. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:36, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * do not change Most articles here are named 'trade show' as is the common American naming of such events; only a few are called fairs. Americans would not look for category of 'fairs' to find such things. Hmains (talk) 03:11, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American basketball coaches

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: withdrawn (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 19:32, 11 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Also listing and all categories therein.
 * Nominator's rationale: Given the existence of and the category splits therein, it doesn't seem right to continue calling men's basketball coaches simply the default "basketball coaches". We can restart the category as a container for all types of basketball coaches after the move. TM 12:26, 24 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment - you might also like to look at . Grutness... wha?   02:05, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - instead of renaming I would keep it and just create “American men’s basketball coaches” with this as the parent category for it and the women’s version. Rikster2 (talk) 21:02, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * There are currently 1,157 articles in the category, so including them in a new category would require quite a bit of work. I'm not familiar with how to program a bot to move them. Is this something that would be possible?--TM 21:12, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It's easy to request the use of a bot for a process like that at WP:Bot requests. Rikster2's proposal sounds like a good one to me. Grutness... wha?   22:33, 26 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Procedurally, all categories involved should be tagged and listed, which has not been done. Regardless of substance, I would oppose on that basis.
 * Substantively, there are 2 problems:
 * Category:Fooian men's basketball coaches won't have the same parent cats as Category:Fooian basketball coaches, so a plain move will mess up the cat hierarchies
 * t won't be accurate to assume that all coaches not categorised as women's coaches are men's coaches. There will be some articles on women's coaches which have not been categorised as such, so a bot move will create errors. This needs to be done manually
 * So best to do as suggests: create the new subcats, and populate them manually. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:28, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * WITHDRAWN--TM 00:22, 7 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.