Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 January 5



Category:Irish diaspora politicians

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 23:39, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting irish diaspora politicians


 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:TRIVIALCAT. Many of these politicians ties to Ireland are tenuous and their Irish ancestry is trivial. TM 22:21, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete Many of these people have no meaningful connection to Ireland.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:37, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Retain But remove this category from all those not first generational Irish born. The category was intended for Irish born diaspora politicians, randomly such as Burke, Collins, Croker, Duffy, Emmet, Gay, Darcy McGee, the O'Dwyers, Walsh (NY) and a few others. Certainly the rest only belong in a category 'Politicians of Irish ancestry'. Many of those Irish born have interesting stories, a pity to dispel them. Osioni (talk) 19:10, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * All names with no direct meaningful connection to Ireland have been deleted. The category now justifies being retained. Osioni (talk) 05:40, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: the category was removed from Daniel Patrick Moynihan, whose article contains substantive discussion of his connection to Ireland. --JBL (talk) 13:44, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * yes, admittedly, but this category is for politicians of Irish nationality or origin, which he unfortunately wasn't. Osioni (talk) 17:42, 7 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Support Retaining (second !vote by cat creator) : Category now contains 37 Irish-born only diaspora politicians, to positive effect. Thank you for original input!   Osioni (talk) 06:25, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Would you change your mind after the category has been purged? Marcocapelle (talk) 09:58, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
 * No, because I do not think there is an easy way to define its purging. Also because I have seen descend categories way over used, often with no mention in an article, and people be downright ugly towards those who resist their unreasonable overuse.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:55, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. The parent Category:Irish diaspora uses a much wider concept of diaspora, which includes all people of Irish descent. This broader usage is supported by dictionaries (e.g. Merriam-Webster) and used by the head article diaspora. It is also used all the other subcats of Category:European diasporas.
 * The Irish govt is fully entitled to define a term used for a particular purpose in any way it chooses (tho I see no source for their usage), but Wikipedia usage clearly reflects the broader dictionary definition. A category which uses a dicdef term in its name and defines it other than by common usage is misleading, and a recipe for miscategorisaton.
 * It might theoretically be possible to rename to a title which conveyed the creators intent, but I see no purpose in a cat whose scope separates emigrants+chilren+grandchildren from the rest of the dispora.  And some of the creators' comments are at best preposterous: e.g. Daniel Patrick Moynihan not of Irish origin? Boggle. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:53, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you BHG for your courteous level of discussion, "preposterous" and "Boggle" very much old-school Wikipedia and in keeping! At the onset John Pack Lambert, not I, requested deletion of this category including Moynihan on the grounds that their ties to Ireland are tenuous and their Irish ancestry trivial. I checked this and was in agreement, eliminating those who had no mention of Irish roots, including Moynihan, other than being "Friends of Ireland". Then JPL had a change of mind with regard to Moynihan. So let us include in the new understanding of who Irish diaspora politicians are, all the Teds, Tipps, Bills and countless others who are "Friends of Ireland" maybe distantly related or not. I'll rescue all present names in the category into the section Politicians under Irish diaspora. So there is no further impediment to category deletion, though really, a category is tidier and easier controlled than an undefined endless "list" of names. Osioni (talk) 20:48, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Whatever about Moynihan, this category remains fundamentally flawed in one of 2 ways. Either it:
 * uses an unusual and non-obvious definition of "diaspora", which will lead to widespread miscategorisation
 * uses the standard "diaspora", creating an excessively broad and WP:INDISCRIMINATE category
 * So best to delete. Good luck to @Osioni making a list. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:46, 18 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete, the rationale of nominator that this category is based on a trivial intersection, still holds. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:00, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * don't follow that one, anyway they are now all, bar three, copy listed under Irish diaspora, Osioni (talk) 00:13, 21 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Articles of Wiki Academy Albania 2017

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: withdrawn after cleanup. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:11, 13 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting articles of wiki academy albania 2017


 * Nominator's rationale: delete, we usually don't categorize articles by how they emerged in Wikipedia. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:44, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Note: the pages currently in this category are in a mix of namespaces - article, talk, draft, user. DexDor(talk) 22:04, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Weak delete per nom - better to do this as a list. DexDor(talk) 06:58, 6 January 2018 (UTC) DexDor(talk) 09:36, 13 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment Did a cleanup. Only talk pages are displayed in the category now, as initially designed. Gikü (talk) 23:32, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Procedural question: do you still want to proceed with this now that it's a conventional WikiProject cat, populated via WikiProject  banners? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)
 * Withdraw nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:48, 13 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional characters with sadistic personality disorder

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:33, 12 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting fictional characters with sadistic personality disorder


 * Nominator's rationale: Original research Beeblebrox (talk) 18:00, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete original research.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:37, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete: no page's inclusion in that category seems to be justified. The category could have some valid members but currently serves only as a magnet for armchair psychologists (i.e. original research). — Bilorv(talk)(c)(e) 01:41, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. No parent article.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:01, 6 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Chilean governors

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 20:02, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Chilean governors to Category:Governors of provinces of Chile
 * Nominator's rationale: to clarify that this relates to the provinces of Chile (see Category:Provinces of Chile) rather than to colonial governors of the Spanish Empire's Governorate of Chiloé. Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:50, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Christian South Korean Musicians

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:03, 12 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting christian south korean musicians


 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCEGRS, this is a non-defining intersection between religion, nationality, and occupation. These are South Korean musicians who are Christian, but their music is not defined by their faith. There is a long-standing precedence against these types of categories, and the 'musician by religion' category tree was also deleted over a decade ago. ℯ  xplicit  08:20, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete - none of the musicians mentioned in the category have preformed Christian music or have had instances of their religion influencing their music. There certainly are more articles that could fit in the category, but I'm not sure it would make the category more valid. Perhaps Category:South Korea performers of Christian music or something similar would be more appropriate if there are South Korean performers of Christian music. Inter&#38;anthro (talk) 20:17, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete (or better, upmerge). That would be a valid category, but the three people I sampled appeared to have a secular music career, not one with anything related directly to Christianity.  Peterkingiron (talk) 22:14, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Three of the articles are already directly categorized under Category:South Korean Christians, and the remaining two are in subcategories (Category:South Korean Protestants and Category:South Korean Baptists). All are categorized under the Category:South Korean musicians tree, leaving nothing left to merge. ℯ  xplicit  01:24, 7 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Supertalk Mississippi programs

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:05, 12 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting supertalk mississippi programs


 * Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary WP:SMALLCAT for radio programs aired by a minor radio network, of which two of the three entries are redirects to the network's base article and the only one that actually has a standalone article is up for AFD as not properly sourced. Bearcat (talk) 07:02, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedia protected pages

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename, and re-create later as a parent.  please go ahead with the plan you have indicated. – Fayenatic  L ondon 23:45, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Wikipedia protected pages to Category:Wikipedia fully protected pages
 * Nominator's rationale: A page with any level of protection is a "protected page", not just fully protected pages. Therefore, I propose moving this category to a more precise title (subcats to follow via WP:CFD/S), and to recreate Category:Wikipedia protected pages as a container for all types of protected pages (fully protected, semi-protected, etc.). If there is consensus for this change, I'll go through the rest of the category tree as needed once this category is renamed. (Pinging User:MZMcBride as the category's creator) -- Black Falcon (talk) 06:17, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Hah, thanks for the ping. I don't even remember doing this. It looks like I was migrating from Category:Protected, which is definitely a worse name. No preference on my end if the category gets renamed again. I'll note that I guess there are at least currently five or six variants of protected pages: semi edit protected, semi move protected, fully edit protected, fully move protected, upload protected, and protected against creation. The last group of pages obviously can't really be categorized. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 14:57, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Support changing the name then remaking the original as a parent per nom. Note that there are several subcategories of this which might also need their names changed accordingly. Grutness... wha?   22:52, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm prepared to do the manual cleanup work required if this category is renamed. Thanks, -- Black Falcon (talk) 19:59, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Support: I have always assumed that unqualified reference to "protection" means "full protection" but I see no reason not to be more specific when we can. — Bilorv(talk)(c)(e) 01:35, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Procedural oppose as nominated. This is a good idea in principle, but most of the content is in a dozen or more subcats, e.g. Category:Wikipedia pages protected against vandalism, Category:Wikipedia protected categories, Category:Protected redirects. Some of the subcats are well set-up as container for various levels of protection, e.g. Category:Wikipedia protected templates which has subcats Category:Wikipedia fully-protected templates, Category:Wikipedia semi-protected templates and Category:Wikipedia template-protected templates.
 * If @Black Falcon's intention was to rename the subcats too, then the nomination is misleading; OTOH if they were overlooked, then the nom would just cause confusion.
 * I would be happy to support a nomination which included all relevant subcats ... but not this one which omits them. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:32, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
 * @BrownHairedGirl: My intention was to work on the subcategories if there was consensus for this proposal, so that eventually there is a hierarchy along the lines of:
 * Protected pages
 * Fully protected pages
 * Pages fully protected against vandalism
 * Fully protected templates
 * Semi-protected pages
 * Pages semi-protected against vandalism
 * Semi-protected templates
 * Protected templates
 * Fully protected templates
 * Semi-protected templates
 * Pages protected against vandalism
 * Pages fully protected against vandalism
 * Pages semi-protected against vandalism
 * Given the current lack of consistency within the category tree, I felt it would be too confusing/messy to try to nominate all of these categories at one time. -- Black Falcon (talk) 02:21, 14 January 2018 (UTC)


 * (changing my !vote) Support. @Black Falcon is willing to do the work and has a sound plan, so if that's the sequence which works for him, it would be silly to stand in his way. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:28, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Support the Black Falcon plan. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:55, 18 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:DC Comics weapons

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Categories with only 3 articles are rarely kept at CfD unless part of an established series per WP:SMALLCAT, so a further discussion might produce a different outcome. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:33, 18 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:DC Comics weapons to Category:DC Comics objects
 * Nominator's rationale: Only one article, which is already in Category:Fictional weapons. Could probably be expanded, though, but useless as is. 2600:387:A:5:0:0:0:A3 (talk) 01:07, 18 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose Smallcat only applies if the category has no potential for expansion. This one can be expanded with articles from the parent category, it just hasn't been populated.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 06:18, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Just for my understanding, which articles in the parent category are you referring to? Marcocapelle (talk) 07:56, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Lasso of Truth, Power Ring, Trick Arrows, Invisible Plane and possibly more. I believe I left a message for someone to change the infobox so that weapons got sorted into that category rather than the objects one and that is why I left it blank but I am not sure if anyone did.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 15:22, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I've added Lasso of Truth and Trick Arrows to the category, the other two articles are disputable. It still remains a very small category this way. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:55, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ( talk ) 04:47, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Procedural comment. your edits didn't acctually add pages to this categ. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:09, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, apparently the infobox doesn't work as I had expected. Then for now I'll just add the articles to Category:DC Comics weapons, rather than trying to move them from Category:DC Comics objects to Category:DC Comics weapons. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:47, 13 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Herpetological citizen science

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Citizen science and Category:Herpetology organizations. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:12, 12 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting herpetological citizen science


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT with very limited potential for growth. Only contains one article currently, and there are very few notable citizen science projects that are exclusive to herpetology. Any content can remain in Category:Citizen science and/or Category:Herpetology organizations --Animalparty! (talk) 03:15, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Creator's response: I created the category just to keep in line with the fact that other groups had sub categories. It can be moved to the general citizen science section though if you feel the need. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Psyon (talk • contribs) 03:21, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Upmerge -- little scope for growth, but we should not orphan the article.  Peterkingiron (talk) 22:17, 6 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.