Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 June 9



Category:Batman characters

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: No consensus. Timrollpickering 22:39, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Convert Category:Batman characters to article List of Batman characters
 * Nominator's rationale: List(s) appear to be more appropriate than categories per prior CFDs, and discussion at WT:COMIC appears to favor lists over categories in cases like this. DonIago (talk) 13:39, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Comment Just a heads up. There is already a List of Batman supporting characters for the allies and List of Batman Family adversaries for the antagonists. Jhenderson 7 7 7  14:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Would you say this should be a straight-up delete instead then? DonIago (talk) 14:19, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I am neutral on it. Hence why I just commented. If I had to choose I think it’s a keep if it stays central to Gotham City characters mostly (with the exception of Deathstroke). But one can make that argument with X-Men character being just being mutants/supporting characters/rogues etc.from X-titles and that was deleted. Jhenderson  7 7 7  15:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose deletion. These aren't team members like the discussions mentioned, but characters from specific comic series.  See also, , , etc, etc...  -- wooden  superman  14:51, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Also, I'd be interested to see the discussion that resulted in the deletion of, as I can't find it in the archive. I actually think that this is as viable a category for literary characters as, say  or , etc, etc.  -- wooden  superman  15:00, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Your name reminds me that I am surprised there ain’t a Superman one. Keep in mind that there is a category of the DC/Marvel shared universe superhero/supervillains and of just characters apparently which is a huge enough category.  Jhenderson  7 7 7  15:14, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * ? -- wooden  superman  15:16, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Ok there is one. But it's doing things a little bit different than like Spider-Man characters or Batman characters.I don't even see Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Perry White or Lex Luthor on there. There's got to be some consistency on how these are treated I think.  Jhenderson  7 7 7  15:21, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that seems odd to me too, you'd certainly expect to see those in there. Some of them are in  though...  -- wooden  superman  15:33, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment -- We commonly remove these, when most of the articles are merged into a list. In this case there are a lot of articles, so that the existence of a category (exceptionally) seems justified.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:38, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep - categories are intended to capture defining characteristics of an article. Ace the Bat-Hound is clearly a Batman character above all else (as are many of the articles). Some should perhaps be purged. ( was merged in this cfd. No reason why it should not be recreated if there are some articles on actual characters, more than 5 say.) Oculi (talk) 20:31, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep at least as a container category as this is clearly useful for navigation, holding five sub-categories including Category:Lists of Batman characters which already contains eleven more specific lists. Disclosure: I re-created this 15 months after deletion per this 2007 CFD, tagged as a container category for the sub-categories and "alternative version" articles. User:Slivicon removed the container template three years ago. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:23, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete - There's no clear definition for what makes something a "Batman character" over a "DC Comics character". Argento Surfer (talk) 13:36, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Robin, Batgirl, Catwoman, Penguin, Joker, etc, etc, are all clearly "Batman characters". It's certainly a lot better as a category than as a navbox such as Batman characters.  -- wooden  superman  14:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * While I'm not arguing about those specific characters, what makes them clearly Batman characters? Is Dick Grayson clearly a Batman character after his time with the Titans? Is Jason Todd clearly a Batman character, since he's been leading the Outlaws since 2012 or so? Superman has appeared in Batman comic books for decades. Is he clearly a Batman character? Where's the demarcation? Argento Surfer (talk) 15:43, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * If you must have demarcation, then maybe the comics from which a character originated? But I don't think we should be too strict on that, as characters evolve.  -- wooden  superman  15:58, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * If there's no demarcation, then it's not clearly defined. And if it's about which comic a character originated in, then this category should not include anyone who first appeared in Detective Comics, Legends of the Dark Knight, or any of the various movies or tv shows. That means that Batman himself would not be a Batman character. Argento Surfer (talk) 16:53, 1 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep, a good category and informative to fans of Batman. And categories and lists are different things, both are needed and some readers look up things on categories, others search for lists, others by templates, etc. Wikipedia is not a "one size fits all" encyclopedia, and correctly provides multiple entrance points to encyclopedic information. Randy Kryn (talk) 09:31, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Rename Category:Characters first appearing in Batman to remove the cameos, spill-overs, etc. from other original sources. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:02, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * By that standard, wouldn't Batman himself not belong in the category? I mean, I'm open to this idea, but I'm not sure how well that will go over. Also should clarify which "Batman" we're talking about...the comic, presumably? DonIago (talk) 03:38, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I would assume the franchise, following the article's all-inclusiveness. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:05, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 12:21, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Relisting comment, the main purpose of this relisting is to have more discussion regarding the alternative proposal to rename to Category:Characters first appearing in Batman. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:21, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. I think this must be useful navigation for people exploring Batman as a subject. Izzat Kutebar (talk) 13:00, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
 * More useful than a list would be, or even a navbox? DonIago (talk) 20:45, 12 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete, as per my arguments at the project talk page, and per Argento. Unless we can get a useful definition, the category should go. The first appearance thing is better defined, but not ultimately useful. --Killer Moff (talk) 13:02, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - The proposed rename is too ambiguous. There have been numerous entities called "Batman" Argento Surfer (talk) 20:44, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Strong delete. The category is not useful for navigation. If Batman is important enough in the character's history, anybody can click Batman or use a navbox. Lists for this already exist. Most importantly, criteria for inclusion are subjective to the point of requiring POV and becoming OR. How many times must a character encounter Batman to be considered a Batman character? In what context? Batman has met most DC characters. Doczilla  @SUPERHEROLOGIST 07:38, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
 * This category has been deleted before: Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_June_27#Category:Batman_characters.
 * Other relevant CfDs include the deletions of Alternate versions of Batman, Enemies of Batman, and Batman love interests. Doczilla  @SUPERHEROLOGIST 07:50, 14 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep One of rare instances when a Wikipedia list is not only encyclopaedically useful but also notable, in both the world at large and under Wikipedia's criteria. Searching online for "Batman+character" brings up a treasure trove of hits. Same goes for books and magazine articles. For the aficionados, of course, but this is what encyclopaedias are about. However, there should not exist many Wikipedia lists of "Batman characters", so a Merge of them all into one list is a trivial necessity. -The Gnome (talk) 07:13, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Searching the name of a popular character with the word character returns lots of WP:GOOGLEHITS? Stunning! Argento Surfer (talk) 12:27, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Amazing, isn't it? And what about those pre-web, silly sources, such as newspapers, magazines and books? -The Gnome (talk) 19:10, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Aren't you actually supporting the nomination? The nomination is to convert it to a list. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:34, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I support keeping the category (and not deleting it, as some seemed to suggest thus losing it altogether), and also having a list of all Batman characters. Suppose a Batman character has its own list: then the character would also appear in the list and the article would belong to the eponymous category. Hope this helps. -The Gnome (talk) 05:46, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * How do you define a Batman character? Argento Surfer (talk) 15:26, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
 * A character who has appeared in a Batman story is a Batman character. Is there another definition? -The Gnome (talk) 07:43, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * As that would include the entire DC universe, most of the Marvel universe, The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, The Shadow, Sherlock Holmes, The Man from U.N.C.L.E, Lurch from the Addams Family, the Green Hornet and many others (just off the top of my head), is there a more useful definition? --Killer Moff (talk) 11:39, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm unable to think of one that isn't arbitrary and/or complicated, hence my vote to delete this in its entirety. Argento Surfer (talk) 12:18, 28 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Anti-cult organizations and individuals

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering 11:20, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Anti-cult organizations and individuals to Category:Anti-cult movement
 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge, redundant category layer, with one subcat for organizations and one subcat for individuals (critics), these can just as well immediately be parented to Category:Anti-cult movement. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:55, 9 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Agrophysics institutions

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering 11:20, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Agrophysics institutions to Category:Agricultural research institutes
 * Nominator's rationale: Only 2 articles. Not clear that there is much distinction between them and those in Agricultural research institutes. Rathfelder (talk) 08:12, 9 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:28, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Johnbod (talk) 15:48, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Rathfelder, The category's (immediate) parents are Category:Soil and crop science organizations and Category:Physics organizations. Is there a reason for not upmerging to those categories? DexDor(talk) 05:10, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * This is not a field I know much about, so I dont know. Rathfelder (talk) 06:51, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * In that case it's probably best to assume that the current categorization (e.g. with these articles categorized as physics orgs) is correct and upmerge accordingly. DexDor(talk) 12:13, 22 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Support with the upmerge as suggested by DexDor. --Mark viking (talk) 19:01, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.