Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 May 31



Category:Clichés

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering 10:44, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting clichés


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. Try searching for "cliché" in the AfD archives or go to Articles for deletion/List of film and television clichés. Many articles, such as Cartoon physics, do not use the word "cliché" anywhere. – Laundry Pizza 03  ( d c&#x0304; ) 22:13, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete - this is 'articles whose name is a cliché', which doesn't work as the article is not about a cliché. Eg Prince Charming is about a fairy-tale character, not a cliché. There could be an article Prince Charming (cliché) about the phrase but there isn't. Oculi (talk) 23:08, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Pour le Mérite for Arts and Sciences

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:31, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Recipients of the Pour le Mérite for Arts and Sciences to Category:Recipients of the Pour le Mérite (civil class)
 * Nominator's rationale: Both categories are essentially the same. Pour le Mérite for Arts and Sciences is the civil class of the order. Grimes2 (talk) 10:35, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * comment from the article The revived civil order of the Pour le Mérite is awarded for achievements in the arts and sciences. Active membership is limited to 40 German citizens, ten each in the fields of humanities, natural science, and medicine and the arts. Honorary membership can be conferred on foreigners, again to the limit of 40. When a vacancy occurs, the remaining members select a new inductee the two categories have 166 & 188 recipients, both larger sized categories, the award is now limited to 40 active members the category should be redefined to active(in the main category) with 4 separate groupings humanities, natural science, medicine, and arts as sub cats. with a possible need for historical category for the earlier period prior to the divisions. Gnangarra 08:19, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * At least something should happen here. I'm neutral between merging as proposed and splitting as alternatively proposed, both are an improvement to the current situation. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:20, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:43, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * merging or splitting: Splitting is complicated and a lot of work. Merging is easily done. The order has around 500 members (dead and alive), this is not to much for a category. I think its better to keep the complete order together and not to split. Grimes2 (talk) 13:07, 2 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American Idol judges

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:24, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting american idol judges


 * Nominator's rationale: Fails WP:PERFCAT -- wooden superman  08:15, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:42, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:59, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. WP:PERF; Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:53, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Bazzi songs

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 07:32, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Bazzi songs to Category:Bazzi (singer) songs
 * Nominator's rationale: A physical correction of the category was reverted, but this should be changed based on speedy criteria C2D. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 21:16, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom to match article Bazzi (singer). Oculi (talk) 21:58, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Speedy rename per C2D. --Richhoncho (talk) 12:00, 3 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Assumptions

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:17, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting assumptions


 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:NONDEF, this is mainly a container category but the topic of each of the subcategories is only vaguely related to "assumptions". Marcocapelle (talk) 21:12, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Support I think in theory one could create a cat about types of assumption, like axioms, hypotheses, a priori beliefs, etc. But the current cat is a grab bag of vaguely related concepts that makes this cat currently non-defining. --Mark viking (talk) 22:56, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom & purely subjective (take misconceptions; not everyone holds those misconceptions nor assumes them as opposed to (il-)logically derived them). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:55, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Batman characters

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: relisted, see here (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 12:24, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Convert Category:Batman characters to article List of Batman characters
 * Nominator's rationale: List(s) appear to be more appropriate than categories per prior CFDs, and discussion at WT:COMIC appears to favor lists over categories in cases like this. DonIago (talk) 13:39, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Comment Just a heads up. There is already a List of Batman supporting characters for the allies and List of Batman Family adversaries for the antagonists. Jhenderson 7 7 7  14:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Would you say this should be a straight-up delete instead then? DonIago (talk) 14:19, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I am neutral on it. Hence why I just commented. If I had to choose I think it’s a keep if it stays central to Gotham City characters mostly (with the exception of Deathstroke). But one can make that argument with X-Men character being just being mutants/supporting characters/rogues etc.from X-titles and that was deleted. Jhenderson  7 7 7  15:03, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose deletion. These aren't team members like the discussions mentioned, but characters from specific comic series.  See also, , , etc, etc...  -- wooden  superman  14:51, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Also, I'd be interested to see the discussion that resulted in the deletion of, as I can't find it in the archive. I actually think that this is as viable a category for literary characters as, say  or , etc, etc.  -- wooden  superman  15:00, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Your name reminds me that I am surprised there ain’t a Superman one. Keep in mind that there is a category of the DC/Marvel shared universe superhero/supervillains and of just characters apparently which is a huge enough category.  Jhenderson  7 7 7  15:14, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * ? -- wooden  superman  15:16, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Ok there is one. But it's doing things a little bit different than like Spider-Man characters or Batman characters.I don't even see Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Perry White or Lex Luthor on there. There's got to be some consistency on how these are treated I think.  Jhenderson  7 7 7  15:21, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that seems odd to me too, you'd certainly expect to see those in there. Some of them are in  though...  -- wooden  superman  15:33, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment -- We commonly remove these, when most of the articles are merged into a list. In this case there are a lot of articles, so that the existence of a category (exceptionally) seems justified.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:38, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep - categories are intended to capture defining characteristics of an article. Ace the Bat-Hound is clearly a Batman character above all else (as are many of the articles). Some should perhaps be purged. ( was merged in this cfd. No reason why it should not be recreated if there are some articles on actual characters, more than 5 say.) Oculi (talk) 20:31, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep at least as a container category as this is clearly useful for navigation, holding five sub-categories including Category:Lists of Batman characters which already contains eleven more specific lists. Disclosure: I re-created this 15 months after deletion per this 2007 CFD, tagged as a container category for the sub-categories and "alternative version" articles. User:Slivicon removed the container template three years ago. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:23, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete - There's no clear definition for what makes something a "Batman character" over a "DC Comics character". Argento Surfer (talk) 13:36, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Robin, Batgirl, Catwoman, Penguin, Joker, etc, etc, are all clearly "Batman characters". It's certainly a lot better as a category than as a navbox such as Batman characters.  -- wooden  superman  14:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * While I'm not arguing about those specific characters, what makes them clearly Batman characters? Is Dick Grayson clearly a Batman character after his time with the Titans? Is Jason Todd clearly a Batman character, since he's been leading the Outlaws since 2012 or so? Superman has appeared in Batman comic books for decades. Is he clearly a Batman character? Where's the demarcation? Argento Surfer (talk) 15:43, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * If you must have demarcation, then maybe the comics from which a character originated? But I don't think we should be too strict on that, as characters evolve.  -- wooden  superman  15:58, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * If there's no demarcation, then it's not clearly defined. And if it's about which comic a character originated in, then this category should not include anyone who first appeared in Detective Comics, Legends of the Dark Knight, or any of the various movies or tv shows. That means that Batman himself would not be a Batman character. Argento Surfer (talk) 16:53, 1 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep, a good category and informative to fans of Batman. And categories and lists are different things, both are needed and some readers look up things on categories, others search for lists, others by templates, etc. Wikipedia is not a "one size fits all" encyclopedia, and correctly provides multiple entrance points to encyclopedic information. Randy Kryn (talk) 09:31, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Rename Category:Characters first appearing in Batman to remove the cameos, spill-overs, etc. from other original sources. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:02, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * By that standard, wouldn't Batman himself not belong in the category? I mean, I'm open to this idea, but I'm not sure how well that will go over. Also should clarify which "Batman" we're talking about...the comic, presumably? DonIago (talk) 03:38, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I would assume the franchise, following the article's all-inclusiveness. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:05, 6 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:James Merendino

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 07:41, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting james merendino


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEPON -- wooden superman  13:02, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Spencer Stone

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 07:43, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting spencer stone


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEPON -- wooden superman  11:43, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tara Strong

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 08:05, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting tara strong


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEPON -- wooden superman  11:43, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Harrison Ford

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 08:07, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting harrison ford


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEPON. -- wooden superman  11:42, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Third Wave Coffee roasters of the United States

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering 10:45, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Third Wave Coffee roasters of the United States to Category:Coffee houses of the United States
 * Nominator's rationale: This was nominated for speedy renaming, but that was opposed on the grounds that the category is promotional and fails WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:23, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Category:Third Wave Coffee roasters of the United States to Category:Third wave coffee roasters of the United States – C2A: WP:NCCAPS, per Third wave of coffee. The Mighty Glen (talk) 15:57, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose promotional fluff category which fails WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. It should be deleted or upmerged. -- Brown Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 11:50, 24 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:NONDEF, Third Wave is mostly not even mentioned in the articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:15, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Support - this is promotional categorisation. Rathfelder (talk) 13:52, 18 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Sports events by city in Greece

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering 10:46, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Sports events by city in Greece to Category:Sports competitions in Greece by city
 * Propose renaming Category:Sports events in Athens to Category:Sports competitions in Athens
 * Propose renaming Category:Annual sports events in Athens to Category:Annual sports competitions in Athens
 * Propose renaming Category:Sports events in Patras‎ to Category:Sports competitions in Patras‎
 * Propose renaming Category:Sports events in Piraeus to Category:Sports competitions in Piraeus
 * Propose renaming Category:Sports events in Thessaloniki‎ to Category:Sports competitions in Thessaloniki‎


 * Nominator's rationale: For consistency within Category:Sports competitions by city. All other city categories were renamed to "competitions" per Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_April_28, except for one that was upmerged. The rationale was "This division between events and competitions does not aid navigation as duplicate content is spread across two trees. Non-competition sports events are so uncommon as not to warrant subdivision at city level." Renaming this last group was not accepted as a Speedy nomination, since the renaming would be inconsistent with the immediate parents (, and ), which currently also just hold competitions. The wider sports events tree needs further consideration, since it has a mixture of category names using "sports events" and "sporting events"; but this nomination is just to finish the work on the layer for cities. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:12, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment -- We do not need both "events" and "competitions". My preference would be to rename the competitions to events.  The preliminary stages of the Football World Cup consists of matches in many places: it is a competition not an event.  The finals are an event held in in one country.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:35, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Support for consistency. My preference would be to keep competitions. Events is utterly vague, to the extent that we even have a Category:Events at multi-sport events‎. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Support for consistency and clarity. If anyone thinks "events" would be a better choice then I suggest they do a follow-up nomination including the 200+ categories on sports competitions by city. I also slightly disagree with Peterkingiron's interpretation above as I see any football match or tournament as a class of competition (which itself is a subtype of an event). I believe the purpose of keeping Category:Sports events separate from Category:Sports competitions should be to distinguish non-competitive events (such as Category:Motorcycle rallies or mass games) from the more numerous competitive ones. SFB 20:15, 5 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional concepts in superhero fiction
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Superhero fiction themes. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 09:06, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Fictional concepts in superhero fiction to Category:Superhero fiction themes
 * Nominator's rationale: Title repeats "fiction" two times. Needs to be renamed per WP:CONCISE and to better match Category:Science fiction themes. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 00:27, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Support. Much tidier name, and in keeping with related categories. Another option might be . Grutness... wha?   02:38, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Support A better name and theme is more specific than concept. --Mark viking (talk) 22:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.