Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 November 14



Category:Sarah Paulson

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. -- Brown Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 04:56, 22 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting sarah paulson


 * Nominator's rationale: I don't see the reason for having a category for a, lets face it, rather minor actress. See WP:OCEPON. Her filmography and awards can be, and are, linked from her article. † dismas †|(talk) 22:36, 14 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete not a proper category. SportingFlyer  talk  06:07, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:OCEPON. Place Clichy (talk) 14:22, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Victims of school bullying

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:08, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting victims of school bullying


 * Nominator's rationale: A necessarily incomplete categorization. It (and the subcat of Americans) contains both perpretators of mass shootings, suicides caused by bullying, and people who have spoken publicly about bullying. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 22:16, 14 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep, but review member pages. There is a clear defining grouping for persons who committed suicide or were otherwise harmed because of school bullying. But, per the nom, pages about bullies or about people who have spoken publicly about bullying should be removed from this category and perhaps relocated in others. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:01, 14 November 2018 (UTC) Changed to merge, below. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:53, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * There's also Category:Bullycide which has almost the same contents. No objection to there being one category for suicides caused by bullying. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 23:19, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * These are two different things. "Victims" are the persons, whereas "Bullycides" are the events/suicides. Admittedly, the former are typically redirects to the latter, but I think we should maintain flexibility for cases where the page subject is a notable person. Also, we may potentially have pages about persons who were victims but who did not commit suicide. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:49, 14 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep We don't need a complete categorization, just articles which prominently deal with the subject. Dimadick (talk) 15:04, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete unless this can be kept just to people who are notable because of being bullied (e.g. not Aiko, Princess Toshi). See WP:DNWAUC. DexDor(talk) 17:18, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete, very minor characteristic of people who are in this category, in contrast to the earlier mentioned Category:Bullycide. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:52, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * That's not true. Pretty much all of these people are notable because of their suicides and the notice taken of those suicides by secondary sources. We either have a page about the person, or about the suicide, and in the latter case, redirects from the name of the person, to the suicide page, are category members. I agree about limiting the category to persons who are notable because of the school bullying, and not for persons for whom it is a minor characteristic (à la WP:DNWAUC), but that's a reason to remove inappropriate pages from the category, not to delete the category. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:47, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I just purged the category of pages where it is not WP:DEFINING. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:51, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The fact that there are now only redirects left is an important signal that this is not sufficiently defining. We do not have articles that are primarily about victims of school bullying. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:20, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Only if you assume that user:Tryptofish was not trigger-happy in cleaning up the category. Jacob Sartorius, for example, became a celebrity because he was an 11-year-old bullying victim who posted anti-bullying videos on the Internet. "The video, which was a message about anti-bullying, went viral and began his fame on social media." But Tryptofish felt byllying was not defining enough. Frankly, I do not trust his judgement on such matters. Dimadick (talk) 11:04, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Because you asked so nicely, I self-reverted on that. And I do not trust your judgement as to what is or is not WP:CIVIL. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:44, 17 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge into the newly-created Category:Bullying and suicide, which has just replaced the former Category:Bullycide as the result of another discussion that I wasn't aware of until now. So: the "bullycide" category no longer exists under that name. And "bullying and suicide" encompasses the entire topic, eliminating the need for two separate categories. Of course, that means that persons who were bullied but did not commit suicide as a result of it will need to be removed from the category entirely. What that means for Mr. Sartorius, I will leave to other editors. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:53, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * In practice there is not too much to be merged. For example Pekka-Eric Auvinen who might have been bullied (so no suicide, and bullying is a minor characteristic) and Jacob Sartorius (no suicide, though bullying is defining) do not belong in the new target. I can imagine if we follow this route that we move Jacob Sartorius directly to Category:School bullying. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:22, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree with that. Those details are no big deal to me either way, and they would be pretty much the same if we were to go simply with deleting this category. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:32, 20 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete completely non-defining characteristic.  Almost every child is bullied at school at some time.  Rathfelder (talk) 14:52, 24 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Homeschooled people in the United States

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering 23:54, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting homeschooled people in the united states


 * Nominator's rationale: Most 'alumni of certain high school' categories have been deleted and discouraged from creation, and this seems to work on the same grounds, except with the added fact that child celebrities usually don't attend a high school due to their work and to prevent harassment. And the definition of 'homeschooling' with this category is completely undefined; it could be at home or just a celebrity merely getting their GED out of the way (or just temporarily during some kind of home move), but also with a tutor on-set or with a bunch of peers in a class on the studio lot, and studio teachers would be offended by their work being called 'homeschooling'. It's also completely duplicative of the subs of Category:Child actors, and by far hardly contains anyone else outside of acting or sports in regular everyday life.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 19:32, 14 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete I came across Category:Homeschooled people in France, which contained one page (Ellie Soutter, a deceased snowboarder). This isn't a defining attribute, Category:Homeschooled people by country and all its subcats can be removed. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 18:16, 18 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Portals with titles not starting with a proper noun

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:10, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting portals with titles not starting with a proper noun


 * Nominator's rationale: No maintenance is needed on this "maintenance category", this is a trivial categorization which serves no useful purpose for the maintenance of enwiki. Fram (talk) 15:14, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support: No apparent useful purpose. Lambtron   talk  15:46, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

RockMagnetist(talk) 16:16, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. I can't think of any way this is useful as a "maintenance category". ··· 日本穣 ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 19:31, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete as not useful, per above. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep, but consider making it a hidden category, based on the explanation below by The Transhumanist. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:53, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * It already is a hidden category. RockMagnetist(talk) 02:10, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Good, thanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:40, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Needed for maintenance and further development of portals – A big problem I keep running into is discerning use of title names (they are all capitalized). In the portal department, we re-use titles a lot, such as with   in portals' internal search parameters (which drive the automated Did you know... and In the news sections). Those sections don't even appear at all unless a match is found. That variable always returns a capitalized word, and therefore the searches miss all instances of the subject names that are not normally capitalized (the non-proper nouns), requiring that the variable be replaced in those portals. Replacing "PAGENAME" with additional search parameters for the non-capitalized subjects results in the appearance of Did you know... and In the news sections for many portals that would otherwise not have them because they were only looking for the capitalized subject. Pluralized proper nouns are also a problem that this category can help fix. Check out Portal:Airports, for example. It has one result in its Did you know section. (Proper nouns are almost never plural, so this entry misses all the airports with "Airport" in their name - this category helps find these and instances of "airports"). This problem also results in improper capitalization of portals' subjects in the Need help? and Get help sections on over a thousand portals.  We're also dead in the water on automating the addition of links to the corresponding outlines and indexes, unless we have this category. Outline of   results in Outline of Cuisines, which isn't the right link to lead to Outline of cuisines. In addition to the PAGENAME problem, if you want to focus on working on core subjects, without any place names or people names or company names or other proper nouns in the list, there is no way to find just the core subjects. The one thing they all have in common is that they are not normally capitalized, but article titles do not show that. These are just some examples. This category will allow these and many other problems to be solved.   &mdash; The Transhumanist   23:15, 14 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment I think the pagename issue can be solved by creating redirects, which I did for Outline of Cuisines. UnitedStatesian (talk) 14:10, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * But first, we need a list of which ones to make redirects for. But, if we put links to outlines in all the portals, many would be red because there are no corresponding outlines for those, because not all portals have corresponding outlines. To place the proper links for those that do, we need to know which ones have their subjects capitalized, and which ones don't. Otherwise, someone will have to do all the links by hand. This category makes WP:AWB runs possible.  &mdash; The Transhumanist   01:16, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * @User:The Transhumanist, does this mean that, for example, Portal:Beer's DYK/ITN won't show articles with titles such as "Foo lager", "Foo ale" or "Foo biere"? DexDor(talk) 19:45, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * That is correct. The underlying lua modules are Module:Selected recent additions and Module:Selected current events. They support Lua search patterns, which are rather precise. You have to add "%slager", %sale%s, and %sbiere%s as additional parameters inside the portal base page. %s means "space", and helps avoid mismatches.  &mdash; The Transhumanist   01:06, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * "Foobar Brewery" would be another example. Given that many portals would need more than a search term automatically created from the portal's name I wonder whether that automation really provides much benefit. DexDor(talk) 21:33, 23 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep now that has explained why it's useful. I suggest putting a concise version of this explanation on the category page. RockMagnetist(talk) 02:13, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep now that there's a distinct use shown for the category. SportingFlyer  talk  06:09, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep per The Transhumanist's explanation. Brendon the Wizard  ✉️ ✨ 21:30, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep per The Transhumanist's explanation.--Dthomsen8 (talk) 13:22, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * RENAME to Category:Portals with titles starting with a common noun, as the category should be just as effective if named positively rather than negatively. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:13, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't that create a category of the portals that editors are not looking for? --Tryptofish (talk) 22:31, 22 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Privately held companies in the United States

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering 23:53, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Privately held companies in the United States to Category:Privately held companies of the United States
 * Nominator's rationale: No obvious reason for distinct categories; "of" is the preferred preposition in the corresponding categories for other countries. UnitedStatesian (talk) 14:43, 14 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge for consistency. SportingFlyer  talk  06:10, 15 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American people of European descent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: containerize. (I only see opposition to deletion of the category; containerization was not addressed by those who opposed.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:17, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose containerization american people of european descent


 * Nominator's rationale: Category which is certainly valid as a container for its subcategories, but is also being misused for a significantly sized but utterly random selection of generically white and/or partially-white multiracial people whose more specific ethnic origins aren't sourceable. This is not an appropriate use for this category, however — many past attempts to categorize Americans for whiteness have gotten deleted at CFD, so using this as a detour around those past deletions is not acceptable. Bearcat (talk) 06:17, 14 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Support. Bearcat, could you link to an example of a previous CFD. DexDor(talk) 06:59, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose. If you're going to delete this then you also need to delete the other continental categories at Category:American people by ethnic or national origin. Plus all the other countries that use them. I have no problem with that (it's better to use specific country of origin directly than grouping them into continents), but you can't cherry pick which of those categories you like or don't like. If you're objecting to people being classified by generic racial descent then Category:American people of African descent (in which there are also many individual articles on people who have unspecified African descent - i.e. people who are black or partially black whose more specific ethnic origins aren't sourceable, to quote the nom) and the others also need to go, otherwise it's a little hypocritical, since then you're accepting people should be categorised for "blackness" but not "whiteness". -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:38, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support containerization of this and similar continent-based categorizations (African and Asian, specifically). Many of these are ridiculous anyhow; if Steven Tyler's great-great-great-grandfather was part African-American that shouldn't justify putting him in Category:American people of African descent. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 22:20, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * oppose for the well stated reasons of Necrothesp above Hmains (talk) 03:18, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, this is essentially a racial category. Probably Category:American people of African descent needs to be containerized for the same reason. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:44, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * oppose It would break the category tree for Category:People of European descent for no good reason. Dimadick (talk) 15:11, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Nothing gets broken with this proposal. It is about containerization, not deletion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Support containerization per nom, to avoid it being used as proxy for "white". Also containerise all similar categories, to prevent them from becoming proxies for race. -- Brown Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 04:56, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support containerization. This is a descent category, not an ethnicity category. Using this category as a proxy for "white" brings funny results with "white" people of Arab, Middle-Eastern, Jewish, Iranian or otherwise West-Central Asian background. Note that Category:American people of African descent also has a containerization hatnote referring people to Category:African-American people for an ethnicity-related category. Place Clichy (talk) 14:22, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1989 in Tehran

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge contents and delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:11, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:1989 in Tehran to Category:1989 in Iran
 * Nominator's rationale: Single-item category, not part of a series.  There is no Category:Years in Tehran.  Brown Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 00:51, 14 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:12, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete there's nothing to merge - the only item is in both categories... SportingFlyer  talk  06:11, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support, it may also be merged to Category:History of Tehran. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:13, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 14:22, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Question Does the proposed merging result in the deletion of Category:1989 in Tehran? If yes, a good proposal. If not, then there should be a proposed deletion following the merge completion.--Dthomsen8 (talk) 01:03, 20 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.