Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 October 13



Category:Lists of people by association

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was:  at Categories for discussion/Log/2018 October 24. ℯ xplicit  00:43, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Lists of people by association to Category:Lists of people
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, it is not clear how this category differentiates itself from its parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:55, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose: I would move just a few members up to the parent, but most are "List of people associated/involved with Foo", making this a valid sub-cat of Category:People by association. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:00, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Meanwhile Category:People by association largely serves as a container category of container categories, implying that very few articles are directly in an association category. This is one of the remaining exceptions. In this case, grouping by having "associated with" in the article title is actually a case of WP:SHAREDNAME. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:40, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't see this as WP:OCAT because of the shared name, but a useful way to diffuse Category:Lists of people along with about 20 siblings "Category:Lists of people by X". – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:30, 14 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Years in the Israeli Civil Administration Area

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus, though it was trending towards option D. I recommend a fresh nomination with an option or options which are clearly set out. This discussion ended up as more of a brainstorming exercise. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:31, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:1983 in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1983 in the Palestinian territories (over redirect)
 * Propose renaming Category:1984 in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1984 in the Palestinian territories (over redirect)
 * Propose renaming Category:1985 in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1985 in the Palestinian territories
 * Propose renaming Category:1986 in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1986 in the Palestinian territories (over redirect)
 * Propose renaming Category:1987 in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1987 in the Palestinian territories (over redirect)
 * Propose renaming Category:1988 in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1988 in the Palestinian territories (over redirect)
 * Propose renaming Category:1989 in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1989 in the Palestinian territories (over redirect)
 * Propose renaming Category:1985 establishments in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1985 establishments in the Palestinian territories
 * Propose renaming Category:1988 establishments in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1988 establishments in the Palestinian territories
 * Propose renaming Category:1989 establishments in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1989 establishments in the Palestinian territories


 * ''Added 14 Oct:
 * Propose merging and redirecting Category:1993 in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1993 in the Palestinian territories
 * Propose renaming Category:1993 crimes in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:1993 crimes in the Palestinian territories (over redirect)
 * Propose merging and redirecting Category:Crime in the Israeli Civil Administration area to Category:Crime in the Palestinian territories (only contains the 1993 sub-cat)


 * Nominator's rationale: There was consensus at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_August_22 to merge the 1982–1993 establishments hierarchies for Israeli Civil Administration area and Palestinian territories, and a balance favouring "Palestinian territories". I have done some housekeeping to redirect parent categories that became empty, but consensus is needed to harmonise the rest of the structure.
 * I am inclined to keep the decades categories e.g. Category:1980s establishments in the Israeli Civil Administration area and Category:1990s in the Israeli Civil Administration area as part of the ICAA hierarchy, but containing year categories for PT e.g. Category:1990s in the Palestinian territories.
 * Alternative Option B: keep the nominated categories, and rename the Palestinian territories categories back to ICAA, i.e. reversing the merges that were done after the previous CFD.
 * Note: if the renaming to PT is approved, then the 1967–1982 year categories within Category:Israeli Military Governorate can be nominated for similar treatment afterwards. Note that 1982 estab was merged to Category:1982 establishments in the Palestinian territories as part of the earlier CFD; if the alternative in this CFD is approved, then that merge should be reversed from PT to IMG. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:53, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Support, consistent with previous discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:05, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I notice that support for option D is growing in the discussion below. For me option D is close enough to the original nomination to support that alternative as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:19, 25 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep - contrary to the statement of the nominator there was no consensus at the Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_August_22 - the closure was "to merge one way or the other". Palestinian territories had not existed before 1999, thus the rename would be a blatant anachronism.GreyShark (dibra) 07:27, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * As I said, there was a consensus to merge, and a balance that took the merge in one direction. Given your "keep" !vote, please clarify whether you support the suggested alternative B, rather than keeping the current mixture that has been left behind after that result. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:49, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Obviously as Pt is an anachronism for 1980s, it should be merged into ICA - alternative B.GreyShark (dibra) 07:56, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * If option B is chosen, then I suggest that all "ICA area" categories should carry an explanation of the years and locations that the ICA covered. I have just found one page which has an attempt to do this, namely Category:1983 in the Israeli Civil Administration area, but most of them do not explain what ICA was; e.g. the header info for the succeeding 1984 category currently has only a red link. I have some awareness of this topic, but when I first came across these "ICA area" categories I did not understand that they were set up to be precursors to the later "Palestinian" categories. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:17, 19 October 2018 (UTC)


 * As for the anachronism, the current names using "Israeli Military Governorate" and "Israeli Civil Administration area", while technically accurate, are not immediately understood by readers. A common name was "the occupied territories", but that's ambiguous; we could consider Option C renaming all 1967–1993 to Israeli-occupied territories, or option D renaming all 1967–1993 to occupied Palestinian territories. The weakness of using PT or OPT is that some categories include places in Sinai and Golan Heights. I'm therefore inclining towards option C. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:49, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Until the 1990s most sources and UN used "Occupied Arab territories" (like this ) for all territories under the Israeli Military Governorate and under the Civil Administration System. Israeli-occupied territories term came into use later and notably also added southern Lebanon, where Israeli Army supported local Lebanese Christian militias via military deployment. In 1999, the UN added a new concept "Palestinian territories, Occupied" to specifically refer to areas A,B,C of the PNA.GreyShark (dibra) 07:54, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I believe that since 1 October 1999, Palestinian Territory, Occupied was the ISO Short name and the ISO Official name was Occupied Palestinian Territory if that's any help. Selfstudier (talk) 23:25, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Using a vague nickname (IoT) with vague definition for the actual governance systems (IMG, ICA, OpT/PNA) is like utilizing category:Years in Uncle Sam for the US.GreyShark (dibra) 07:58, 14 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Prefer Option D Occupied Arab territories. However, I would prefer not to use this for southern Lebanon, where the occupation was relatively short and in cooperation with Christian allies.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:22, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Occupied Arab territories is actually the other name of the Israeli Military Governorate. Option D per nominator is "occupied Palestinian territories".GreyShark (dibra) 06:21, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Occupied Arab territories is problematic as it would include the Golan, Sinai (until 82), and South Lebanon. There might be good cause to unlump Gaza and the West Bank into separate cats - but lumping in additional territories isn't a good idea. Icewhiz (talk) 12:46, 16 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Note that there is continuous discussion about the article title of Palestinian territories but until now the consensus is apparently that this is the common name. I would rather prefer to keep the category names consistent with the article name, especially since this is a very controversial topic (note that the article talk page begins with: WARNING: ACTIVE ARBITRATION REMEDIES). Marcocapelle (talk) 16:55, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - how is this proposal not rejecting the outcome of Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_April_8 - suddenly the Palestinian territories can be retroactively applied prior to its official introduction into use in 1999? how far back? Do we disregard the period of Israeli occupation (IMG / ICA) as non-existent by simply renaming it into Palestinian territories? Asking User:Johnpacklambert, User:Debresser, User:IZAK, User:Pluto2012, User:Anotherclown, User:Nishidani.GreyShark (dibra) 06:57, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. 08:29, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. 08:29, 16 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. 08:29, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. 08:29, 16 October 2018 (UTC)


 * I have also left notices at WT:WikiProject Israel and WT:WikiProject Palestine. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:29, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 * option E - split to Category:1983 in Gaza and Category:1983 in the West Bank. This leaves political designations (well - it would endorse West Bank, but that's under the bridge per WP:WESTBANK) out of it  and whether Gaza and West Bank are one entity or not for different years) out of the category name - leaving us with a well defined geographic descriptor. OPT and/or Israeli Civil Administration area can be built as parent cats.Icewhiz (talk) 12:52, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Although that sounds like a useful idea, there are various (dis)establishments in Golan & Sinai; if this proposal was implemented, one solution would be to place them up into the decade categories for IMG/ICA, as I have currently done with Nimrod, Golan Heights. There is at least one (Tamer Institute for Community Education) which "works across the West Bank and Gaza Strip"; such cases could be placed in both categories. I would suggest Category:1983 in the Gaza Strip rather than just "Gaza", as part of Category:Years in the Gaza Strip which currently starts at 2006. There were until recently a few C21 establishment categories for the Gaza Strip, which were merged to Palestinian territories, see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_September_18; creating this split for 1967–1993 would reopen the question of whether to extend the split hierarchy thereafter. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:45, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Golan & Sinai - only prior to 1982 (as Israel pulled out of the Sinai completely in 1982, and the Golan Heights Law, annexing the Golan to Israel, was passed in 1981). For the most part - establishments are area specific - but if an org is established at the same time at both locations (and not a few years later) - then it would be in two cats (an issue one would assume with other areas and organizations that span a few areas). Icewhiz (talk) 20:03, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
 * re Golan: Kanaf is currently in Category:1985 establishments in the Israeli Civil Administration area.
 * re Sinai – I was thinking of four articles in Category:1982 disestablishments in the Israeli Military Governorate. (That category currently does not match the 1982 estab category which was merged to Category:1982 establishments in the Palestinian territories; that merge would be reversed under option B.) Under option E, would the split only be done for 1983 onwards, and if so should 1967–1982 categories use IMG, so that in particular the recently-merged 1982 estab category would use IMG? – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:41, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
 * 1982 disestab is mainly Sinai. Kanaf is wrong - as the ICA was not active after 1981 in the Golan. I would disbundle 1967-1982 as well (to Gaza, West Bank, Golan, and Sinai) - which might be consistent with 1949-1967 for Gaza and the West Bank at least (under Egyptian and Jordanian occupation).Icewhiz (talk) 13:56, 20 October 2018 (UTC)


 * I have also left notices at the talk pages of Israeli Civil Administration and Palestinian territories. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:42, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Prefer Option D renaming all 1967–1993 to occupied Palestinian territories. The defining characteristics of the Palestinian territories are that they (West Bank, including East Jerusalem and Gaza Strip) were all part of the British Mandate for Palestine and since the end of it in 1948 to the present day, they have been occupied (not always by Israel).Selfstudier (talk) 12:38, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note that Israeli Military Governorate (1967-1981) also included Golan and Sinai, which are clearly unrelated with Palestinian territories.GreyShark (dibra) 07:33, 26 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Support original nomination as Palestinian territories, but would alternatively support option D (occupied Palestinian territories) with a lower preference, per common name and preference for geographical designations over political ones, especially little-known short-lived ones. Place Clichy (talk) 16:22, 31 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Lists of people by institutional affiliation

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:21, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Lists of people by institutional affiliation to Category:Lists of people by organization
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, presumably the two categories have the same scope. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:38, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge obviously. I first read this as academic affiliation, but that is not what it is.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:26, 14 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Railway stations served by Gatwick Express

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus, but hopefully one will emerge from the discussion started here. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:28, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting railway stations served by gatwick express


 * Nominator's rationale: No need for this as Gatwick Express has already merged with Govia Thameslink Railway so this train operating company doesn't exist on its own anymore. There is no need for a category about the railway stations served by a former TOC that doesn't exist on its own anymore. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:41, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. I don't think categorizing stations by TOCs (which can be very short-lived compared with station lifetimes) is good categorization - e.g. London Victoria station is currently in about 27 categories! DexDor(talk) 07:43, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep pending centralised discussion. I think that it would be wisest to have a centralised discussion (probably at WT:UKRAIL) about categorisation by TOC in general (current, future, sub-brands, TOC or franchise, etc) rather than the current approach of CfDing individual categories from within the tree in isolation. Thryduulf (talk) 12:38, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Gatwick Express is no longer a train operating company on it's own, it is a sub-brand and the only such category that exists. If it something like Category:Railway stations served by West Midlands Trains (for example), it should be kept as it is a current train operating company. Another proposal is to redirect it to Category:Thameslink railway stations but there is no need to keep the category on its own if it is not currently trading as a TOC on its own. Pkbwcgs (talk) 15:08, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 * These questions are exactly why I say we should have a centralised discussion. It's also not unique as Southern is these days just a sub-brand of Govia Thameslink Railway but we still have Category:Railway stations served by Southern. Thryduulf (talk) 15:27, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I've now started that discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways. Thryduulf (talk) 16:31, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I have put my vote but if Category:Railway stations served by Gatwick Express is required, why can't we have Category:Railway stations served by Stansted Express? It is a sub-brand just like Gatwick Express. Pkbwcgs (talk) 16:47, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree we should have both or neither, I started the discussion to find out which option has consensus. I don't currently have a strong opinion which I prefer, but I don't think we should not be deleting categories before we get an answer. Thryduulf (talk) 16:54, 16 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Railway stations served by Arriva Trains Wales

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Railway stations served by Transport for Wales Rail. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:19, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Railway stations served by Arriva Trains Wales to Category:Railway stations served by KeolisAmey Wales
 * Nominator's rationale: Tomorrow, the Arriva Trains Wales franchise is going to Transport for Wales Rail Services which is going to be operated by KeolisAmey Wales. Or, the category could be renamed to Category:Railway stations served by Transport for Wales Rail or Category:Railway stations served by TfW Trains whichever is preferred. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:35, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Other categories use the brand name, e.g. Category:Railway stations served by London Overground not Category:Railway stations served by Arrival Rail London, so I think Category:Railway stations served by Transport for Wales Rail is the best here. Thryduulf (talk) 23:09, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. I don't think categorizing stations by TOCs (which can be very short-lived compared with station lifetimes) is good categorization. This information (assuming it is sufficiently important and referenced) should be in the text of the articles (with dates etc), but doesn't afaics need categories. DexDor(talk) 07:43, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * That would require a change to the consensus that these categories are useful - they exist for every current UK TOC and have done for a number of years. Feel free to start the discussion if you want, but ad-hoc deletion of one category from the set is not appropriate. And, yes the information is sufficiently important, trivially referenceable and is included in at least most station articles. Thryduulf (talk) 09:35, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * While there may be a decent argument for revisiting the structure of the stations by TOC categorisation, this should probably happen at WT:UKRAIL, or here in a centralised discussion, not on the discussion about one single category within that structure. -mattbuck (Talk) 10:40, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I've now started that discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways. Thryduulf (talk) 16:31, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Move to Category:Railway stations served by Transport for Wales Rail per Thryduulf &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 11:30, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Rename per Amakuru, Thryduulf, and others. The franchises have somewhat greater endurance than TOCs.  We might thus go for naming by franchises, where we can do this without also having the TOC's brand.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:32, 14 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fungi described in the 1750s

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:20, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting
 * Propose deleting


 * Nominator's rationale: Follow-up removal of empty fungi decadal categories, per WP:TREE RFC @ Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life. See previous, related CfDs here, here, here, and here.  ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  18:57, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * WT:TREE & WT:FUNGI notified.  ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  19:04, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Support based on this and previous related nominations. – numbermaniac  01:36, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Support as useful cleanup. — JFG talk 11:13, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Support -- We have been removing this kind of category recently. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:34, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose - repopulate and keep. There is nothing wrong per se with decadal categories; there was something wrong with the way they were arranged throughout the 'described in' tree. See many examples in Category:Works by date or indeed Category:Works by period of creation (instantly recognisable as a Stephanomione). In Category:Books by date we have subcat schemes Category:Books by year, Category:Books by decade, Category:Books by century and Category:Books by millennium, each one having the expected contents. Category:Fungi by year of formal description in contrast has startling contents. Further it is impossible to discuss categories properly when they have been emptied out-of-process beforehand. (This is nothing whatever to do with subject-specific expertise.) My previous supports for similar noms were mistaken. Oculi (talk) 23:49, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * , none have been emptied out-of-process. Fungi year categories were standardized 2 months after the closing of the 3.5-month-long RfC. Then, the notice for this CfD was placed on the decadal categories. I believe 3.5 months is a more than adequate discussion period, followed by 2 months of being 'on display', also without objection.
 * Regarding all of your non-taxonomic examples, yes, WP:OTHERCATSEXIST.  ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  04:36, 15 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Football managers who never became players

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:09, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Football managers who never became players to Category:
 * Nominator's rationale: I'm not even sure that this is a defining characteristic of a football manager, that they did not play the game but even if it is "who never" sounds incorrect. Maybe "who were not"? Egghead06 (talk) 16:54, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I am OK for any advice (I was confused on what word to use). Just want to categorize these rare managers in one. – Flix11 (talk) 17:08, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:NONDEF. Categorising by the absence of an attribute is generally a bad idea, and I don't see anything to make this an exception to that principle. Careers are mostly defined by what the person did, rather than by what they didn't do. -- Brown Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 22:58, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete - it isn't defining. I would think it highly unlikely that Avram Grant never played football even say at school. Oculi (talk) 00:07, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Grant was a youth player (not a pro, in the youth of a pro team). He turned to coaching after an injury.Icewhiz (talk) 20:11, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete We should not cat people by something they did not do.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 08:06, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete – Non-defining, hard to assess, borders on trivia. — JFG talk 11:15, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - I Do not oppose delete, if that is consensus. However "Football managers who never played" would be a viable category, because it is relatively unusual for managers not to be ex-players.  However the present category includes a chairman (who is not a manager), hence purge, if kept. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:45, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete - named wrong way around, not defining, and categorising people by what they were not is bordering on offering an opinion. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 20:15, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete not defining characteristic. Joseph</b><b style="color:#00FF00">2302</b> (talk) 19:51, 21 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Daredevil seasons
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was:  at 2018 OCT 23 CFD. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:18, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Daredevil seasons to Category:Daredevil (TV series)
 * Nominator's rationale: The parent category, Category:Daredevil (TV series), is rather small - it has only the main article, a list of its characters, and a media file - 2 articles and 1 file. Perhaps this category should be merged into the parent category, as it doesn't yet seem necessary to split the seasons into a subcategory. – numbermaniac  12:22, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose: There is a scheme of Category:Television seasons by series in which this type of exception is allowed by WP:SMALLCAT. The scheme allows readers to easily navigate from seasons of one show to another. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 23:38, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Support, per nominator's rationale. Matt14451 (talk) 17:49, 21 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

People who died in the Holocaust by occupation
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge/delete as per adjusted nomination. As discussed, these will be done manually rather than by bot. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:14, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People who died in the Holocaust by occupation to Category:People who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose merging Category:People who died in Nazi concentration camps by occupation to Category:People who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose merging Category:Jewish people who died in the Holocaust by occupation to Category:Jewish people who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Actors who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Actors who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Actresses who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Architects who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Architects who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Artists who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Artists who died in the Holocaust


 * Propose deleting Category:Catholic priests who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Chess players who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Chess players who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Composers who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Composers who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Engineers who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Engineers who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Historians who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Historians who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Jewish actors who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose merging Category:Jewish artists who died in the Holocaust to Category:Jewish artists
 * Propose merging Category:Jewish businesspeople who died in the Holocaust to Category:Jewish businesspeople
 * Propose deleting Category:Jewish chess players who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Jewish entertainers who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Jewish mathematicians who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose merging Category:Jewish military personnel who died in the Holocaust to Category:Military personnel who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Jewish musicians who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose merging Category:Jewish politicians who died in the Holocaust to Category:Politicians who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Jewish scientists who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Jewish sportspeople who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Jewish writers who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Journalists who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Journalists who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Lawyers who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Lawyers who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Linguists who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Linguists who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Male actors who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Mathematicians who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Mathematicians who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Military personnel who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Military personnel who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Musicians who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Musicians who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Opera singers who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Painters who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Painters who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Philosophers who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Philosophers who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Photographers who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Photographers who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Physicians who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Physicians who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Poets who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Poets who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Rabbis who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Rabbis who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Religious workers who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Religious workers who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Resistance members who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Scientists who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Scientists who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Songwriters who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Spies who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Spies who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Sportspeople who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Sportspeople who died in the Holocaust
 * Propose deleting Category:Writers who died in Nazi concentration camps
 * Propose deleting Category:Writers who died in the Holocaust


 * Nominator's rationale: manually* delete, unrelated intersection between occupation and cause of death. Note that I have removed politicians from this nomination, since the Nazis deliberately jailed socialist and communist political opponents in concentration camps. This is follow-up on this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:52, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * * Clarification of "manually" see discussion below. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:59, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * pinging contributors to earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:52, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete most of these. Keep Category:Spies who died in Nazi concentration camps and Category:Resistance members who died in Nazi concentration camps, since spies and resistance members were often imprisoned or executed in concentration camps if caught. Some of these need an upmerge, especially the Jewish ones. Fredy Hirsch, for instance, is in Category:Jewish sportspeople who died in the Holocaust but not in Category:Jewish sportspeople. In addition, all of the Jewish categories should be upmerged into Category:Jewish people who died in the Holocaust. Catrìona (talk) 09:01, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Agree on making exceptions for resistance members and spies, as well as military personnel. Upmerging should be done manually, because most articles are already in a subcategory of Category:Jewish people who died in the Holocaust by nationality. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:14, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Question.  why do you propose to delete Category:Jewish actors who died in the Holocaust and the other Jewish subcats by occupation?  Surely they should be merged to Category:Jewish people who died in the Holocaust? -- Brown <span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(-3deg)">Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 11:46, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Catrìona had the same question. Upmerging should be done manually, because most articles are already in a subcategory of Category:Jewish people who died in the Holocaust by nationality. It is something for WP:CFDWM. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:29, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Sory, I missed that. (facepalm) Thanks for the clarification.
 * Please could you amend the nomination to something like "anually delete" or "selectively merge" for those cats, so that the closer is clear that these should not just be fed to the bots? -- Brown <span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(-3deg)">Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 13:56, 13 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Support, with appropriate upmerging. — JFG talk 11:19, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Object -- I looked at the engineers item, where there were 3 "died in holocaust" and 8 "died in Nazi concentration camps". I do not think we need both trees, but I do think we need one.  We should not be categorising those who died of old age or disease without imprisonment in extermination/concentration camps.  Calling it "holocaust" is specific to Jews, excluding Poles, gypsies, imbeciles, etc.  The two latter are unlikely to include professional people.  I am not sure if we need to make any distinction between those "killed" or merely "died" in camps.  Death from starvation or typhus was nearly as culpable as deliberate killing.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:13, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * "Calling it "holocaust" is specific to Jews, excluding Poles, gypsies, imbeciles, etc. The two latter are unlikely to include professional people." I am not sure how to read this. Nazis have imprisonned and killed people of all kinds of professions, mostly irrespective of their profession (exceptions discussed above), Why exactly would we need to diffuse Jews by occupation (and second question, why not Poles)? Marcocapelle (talk) 15:00, 14 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Support as in previous discussion. Per WP:OCEGRS, the Jewish/occupational intersections seem very far-fetched and Jewish victims were not selected by occupation. Besides previously mentioned exceptions, I would also exclude Category:Rabbis who died in the Holocaust where least some kind of connection can be seen. Place Clichy (talk) 00:16, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose per my comments above until manual mergers are clraly distinguished from deletions. -- Brown <span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(-3deg)">Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 05:12, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I've changed the nomination already and no closer will oversee the discussion that we had about this issue. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:15, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * It still says "delete" beside several cats where you say below that you mean "manual selective merge". It would be simple to be explicit if you wanted, so I oppose. -- Brown <span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(-3deg)">Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 08:39, 15 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.