Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 October 30



Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy by nationality

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy to Category:Seventh-day Adventist ministers; rename Category:American Seventh-day Adventist clergy to Category:American Seventh-day Adventist ministers; delete Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy by nationality'''. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:09, 14 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting seventh-day adventist clergy by nationality


 * Nominator's rationale: No links that would benefit in this category. It was created by a banned sock puppet. AmericanAir88(talk) 23:09, 30 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment - 38 articles have been removed from its subcategory. I would repopulate Category:American Seventh-day Adventist clergy and upmerge Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy by nationality to Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy. Oculi (talk) 23:56, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
 * how do you make that link to webcache, to show former category members, please? – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:35, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * One googles Category:American Seventh-day Adventist clergy and if there is a downward arrow (on the green link) that gives a link to a cached version which with any luck will reveal surreptitious emptying. It is still there today: voici. Oculi (talk) 12:10, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Category:American Seventh-day Adventist clergy should certainly be repopulated, as it is also a subcat of Category:American Seventh-day Adventists. I shall do this forthwith, at least partially. (Banned editors can make perfectly good edits.) Oculi (talk) 12:16, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I did repopulate Category:American Seventh-day Adventist clergy (with 37 members - the 38th did not appear to be clergy), but user:Catfurball who emptied it in the first place without giving a reason has reverted my edits, again with no reason. Oculi (talk) 18:17, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Oculi. For the record: Here is a link to those diffs, removing the member pages. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:15, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * thanks for repopulating the American category. It now has 36 pages; might you have missed one, or was one intentionally excluded? – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:31, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support alternative solution provided by User:Oculi, most (notable) Seventh-day Adventist clergy are Americans, so it makes sense to keep the American subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:03, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The Category:American Seventh-day Adventist clery was also illegally created by a sockpuppet, but also the Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy was also made by the same illegal sockpuppet. I suggest that a new category be created. Called Category:Seventh-day Adventist ministers. This would be the best thing to do to replace this sockpuppet mess.Catfurball (talk) 18:20, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Seventh-day Adventist Church refers to clergy. What is the objection to clergy? Oculi (talk) 18:46, 2 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Since the Seventh-day Adventist Church uses the names pastor and minister, not clergy that sounds way to Roman Catholic, which really bothers me. And plus brand new categories should replace these sockpuppet categories. I know that many of the Seventh-day Adventist pastors that have Wikipedia articles are from the United States, but a few are foreigners. In fact I don't even know if all of the Seventh-day Adventist pastors are all put together. In fact  I just found a Seventh-day Adventist article on a person just today, even thou she wasn't labeled as a Seventh-day Adventist she was. She isn't a pastor thou,but was a physician. And I'm certain that there are many more hiding somewhere. In fact I've come acrossed a list on the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventist Church website that lists many church administrators, and they would've had their start as pastors. The majority of these people don't even have Wikipedia articles.Catfurball (talk) 20:23, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * There is Category:Methodist ministers but I think Category:Pastors was deleted. I have no objection to renaming Category:American Seventh-day Adventist clergy (which I have tagged for cfd) to Category:American Seventh-day Adventist ministers (and repopulating it) as a subcat of Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy renamed to Category:Seventh-day Adventist ministers. (The banned editor is user:Pastorwayne.) Oculi (talk) 22:49, 2 November 2018 (UTC)


 * I support renaming Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy to Category:Seventh-day Adventist ministers. And I support renaming Category:American Seventh-day Adventist clergy to Category:American Seventh-day Adventist ministers.Catfurball (talk) 17:19, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 * REname and repopulate as Category:American Seventh-day Adventist ministers and Category:Seventh-day Adventist ministers. Many pastors are NN and so do not have articles, but we commonly do categorise ministers by denomination and this should be no exception. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:58, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Rename and repopulate as Category:American Seventh-day Adventist ministers and Category:Seventh-day Adventist ministers. (To clarify my remarks above.) Oculi (talk) 18:56, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I Support deleting Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy by nationality it's a worthless category.Catfurball (talk) 17:50, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Upmerge to Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy, and repopulate the American category. I would favour renaming those from "clergy" to "ministers" (see Category_talk:Religious_leaders for a wider proposal that has stalled), but they have not been tagged. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:20, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy is now tagged. Oculi (talk) 23:27, 10 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Oculi. In that case, I also support renaming Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy to Category:Seventh-day Adventist ministers, and Category:American Seventh-day Adventist clergy to Category:American Seventh-day Adventist ministers. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:31, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: see also related merger proposal at CFD Nov 11 re "leaders" category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:31, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support alternative solution:
 * Rename Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy to Category:Seventh-day Adventist ministers
 * Delete Category:Seventh-day Adventist clergy by nationality
 * Rename Category:American Seventh-day Adventist clergy to Category:American Seventh-day Adventist ministers
 * Place Clichy (talk) 13:44, 13 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Alt-lite

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:01, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Alt-lite to Category:Alt-right
 * Nominator's rationale: "Alt-lite" = alt-right minus ethnic nationalism.  Ethnic nationalism is generally a fringe idea, so it's not a useful idea to group together people who oppose it. Moreover, this category is very hard to keep neutral ( is hard as well), and "alt-lite" is a neologism anyway. This category may demonstrate a part of the fall of the alt-right, but that is mostly speculation.  w umbolo   ^^^  19:11, 30 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:SMALLCAT, for the time being this seems to be a self-proclaimed movement applicable to one organization only. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:17, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support merging sounds like a good idea.Catfurball (talk) 19:00, 6 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People associated with musical groups

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:00, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting people associated with musical groups


 * Propose deleting people associated with the bee gees


 * Propose deleting people associated with the beach boys


 * Nominator's rationale: Textbook WP:OCASSOC. See precedent at Categories for discussion/Log/2012 November 3.  -- wooden  superman  16:29, 30 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. Textbook indeed. --Bsherr (talk) 21:08, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:57, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:54, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete they do look over catergerized.Catfurball (talk) 18:58, 6 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Anti-nationalists

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:59, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting anti-nationalists


 * Nominator's rationale: The linked supporting article entitled "anti-nationalism" has numerous problems and there is only limited supporting reliable source literature. For pigeon-holing individual people as either "anti-nationalist" or (implicitly, for those omitted) non-anti-nationalist there appear to be even fewer reliable sources that discuss this as a category containing numerous individuals. Despite what seems to be the vague and un-RS-supported nature of this category, some editors are now inserting this category into numerous biographical articles for living as well as dead individuals. The category seems so vague that anyone who has ever criticized any type of national approach could be included, regardless of whether their worldview was nuanced and affirmed a role for the nation in other ways. Retaining this vague and un-RS-unsupported category seems liable, intentionally or good-faith unintentionally, to open Wikipedia up to be a platform to aid fervent or fanatical nationalists in smearing those who differ with them, sweeping away nuances of beliefs. Presearch (talk) 16:06, 30 October 2018 (UTC)


 * (also from nominator) As an example of the questionable use of this category, note that since Oct 30 2016, Muhammad Iqbal has been categorized as an "anti-nationalist", despite the fact that his article lead quotes him as being viewed as the "Spiritual father of Pakistan". Perhaps retention of this category was merely overlooked vandalism. But perhaps some could view him as an anti-nationalist in as much as he opposed the unified (one-state) independence of India, and advocated for a two-state solution (India and Pakistan). This highlights the fact that whereas it may make sense to describe particular stances in context as "anti-nationalist", it may be harder to categorize people that way. Perhaps this difficulty accounts for the scarcity of reliable sources that attempt to apply the "anti-nationalist" category to individual people across a wide range of contexts. Wikipedia category guidelines for people tell us to "clearly define the category" and that "It is preferable that the category definition (on the category page) tries to exclude vague or non-neutral point of view (NPOV) cases". A clear definition has not been done for this category, and I suspect that it is undoable given the scarcity of reliable sources that undertake such a task. --Presearch (talk) 16:34, 30 October 2018 (UTC)


 * (again from nominator) Since January 2016 (link), Ayatolla Ruhollah Khomeini has been categorized as an "anti-nationalist". Again, there may be a rationale. But again, the categorization is not obvious, and no external reliable sources were given to support this categorization. Even if this category could be made intelligible, it would appear to require a great deal of original research for its application across so many diverse contexts, many of them not obvious. --Presearch (talk) 17:36, 30 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Support This category seems to be mostly a vast effort to correlate various notable people in WP:SYNTH. Simonm223 (talk) 18:40, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Support It does seem to be a category.Catfurball (talk) 18:51, 6 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Former capitals of Arkansas

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:57, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Former capitals of Arkansas to Category:Former state capitals in the United States
 * Nominator's rationale: per WP:SMALLCAT. Only 2 articles, and no scope for expansion. Category:Former state capitals in the United States has no other by-state subcategories.  Brown Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 09:27, 30 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Support. Little scope for expansion. Dimadick (talk) 14:34, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Support. Given the lack of other such categories, upmerging seems appropriate. --Bsherr (talk) 21:11, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, WP:SMALLCAT. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:58, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support merge of request.Catfurball (talk) 18:44, 6 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.