Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 September 29



Christian mystics

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering 07:52, 6 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming:
 * Category:American mystics to Category:American Christian mystics
 * Category:Belgian mystics to Category:Belgian Christian mystics
 * Category:Berber mystics to Category:Berber Christian mystics
 * Category:Byzantine mystics to Category:Byzantine Christian mystics
 * Category:Canadian mystics to Category:Canadian Christian mystics
 * Category:Chinese mystics to Category:Chinese Christian mystics
 * Category:English mystics to Category:English Christian mystics
 * Category:Flemish mystics to Category:Flemish Christian mystics
 * Category:French mystics to Category:French Christian mystics
 * Category:German mystics to Category:German Christian mystics
 * Category:Greek mystics to Category:Greek Christian mystics
 * Category:Irish mystics to Category:Irish Christian mystics
 * Category:Italian mystics to Category:Italian Christian mystics
 * Category:Mexican mystics to Category:Mexican Christian mystics
 * Category:Portuguese mystics to Category:Portuguese Christian mystics
 * Category:Roman mystics to Category:Roman Christian mystics
 * Category:Russian mystics to Category:Russian Christian mystics
 * Category:Spanish mystics to Category:Spanish Christian mystics
 * Category:Swedish mystics to Category:Swedish Christian mystics
 * Category:Swiss mystics to Category:Swiss Christian mystics
 * Category:Syrian mystics to Category:Syrian Christian mystics
 * Category:Ugandan mystics to Category:Ugandan Christian mystics
 * Category:Venezuelan mystics to Category:Venezuelan Christian mystics
 * Nominator's rationale:Mysticism exists in many religious traditions, and greater specificity is needed to clariffy that these are Christian mystics. Note that the parent category is Category:Christian mystics by nationality. -- Brown Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 23:28, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Support per nom, assuming that all mystics in these categories are Christians (which I have not checked). The Roman category should be excluded, since it is separately nominated below. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:36, 2 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Roman mystics

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering 07:54, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Roman mystics to Category:Ancient Roman Christian mystics
 * Nominator's rationale: The actual scope is people from Ancient Rome (see Category:Ancient Romas, and these are Christian mystics.
 * Mysticism exists in many religious traditions, and greater specificity is needed that these are Christian mystics. Brown Haired Girl (talk) • (contribs) 22:57, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:37, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Support per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 03:04, 4 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Articles presenting hypothesis as fact

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering 07:56, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting articles presenting hypothesis as fact


 * Nominator's rationale: Empty with no known parser error, template, or module to populate it. &thinsp;&mdash; Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)&thinsp; 21:53, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom, and given the deletion of the template which populated it: Templates for discussion/Log/2017 June 4. 59.149.124.29 (talk) 11:02, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 03:05, 4 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Vertebrates of Metropolitan France

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering 07:57, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Vertebrates of Metropolitan France to Category:Vertebrates of Europe
 * Propose merging Category:Vertebrates of Montenegro to Category:Vertebrates of Europe
 * Propose merging Category:Vertebrates of Spain to Category:Vertebrates of Europe
 * Nominator's rationale: That a species (e.g. Sailfin roughshark) is found in a particular European country is non-defining. Example previous similar CFDs: vertebrates/Europe.  For info: All previous non-bot edits to these categories are by now-blocked editor(s). DexDor(talk) 19:43, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Support upmerging and then deletion: typical examples of the over-detailed categories created by this blocked editor. Peter coxhead (talk) 19:58, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Recurring events until 1800

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was:  at 2018 OCT 7 CFD. Good Ol’factory (talk) 12:31, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 353 to Category:353 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 539 to Category:539 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 869 to Category:869 establishments


 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 970 to Category:970 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1133 to Category:1133 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1200 to Category:1200 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1211 to Category:1211 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1233 to Category:1233 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1253 to Category:1253 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1257 to Category:1257 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1268 to Category:1268 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1278 to Category:1278 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1284 to Category:1284 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1285 to Category:1285 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1294 to Category:1294 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1340 to Category:1340 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1346 to Category:1346 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1351 to Category:1351 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1397 to Category:1397 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1434 to Category:1434 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1450 to Category:1450 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1490 to Category:1490 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1519 to Category:1519 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1520 to Category:1520 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1563 to Category:1563 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1570 to Category:1570 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1584 to Category:1584 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1586 to Category:1586 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1588 to Category:1588 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1592 to Category:1592 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1603 to Category:1603 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1604 to Category:1604 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1605 to Category:1605 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1608 to Category:1608 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1610 to Category:1610 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1642 to Category:1642 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1665 to Category:1665 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1670 to Category:1670 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1672 to Category:1672 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1682 to Category:1682 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1688 to Category:1688 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1712 to Category:1712 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1715 to Category:1715 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1719 to Category:1719 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1732 to Category:1732 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1743 to Category:1743 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1751 to Category:1751 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1756 to Category:1756 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1757 to Category:1757 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1758 to Category:1758 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1766 to Category:1766 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1767 to Category:1767 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1768 to Category:1768 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1769 to Category:1769 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1771 to Category:1771 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1775 to Category:1775 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1776 to Category:1776 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1777 to Category:1777 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1779 to Category:1779 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1780 to Category:1780 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1784 to Category:1784 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1785 to Category:1785 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1786 to Category:1786 establishments


 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1790 to Category:1790 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1797 to Category:1797 establishments
 * Propose merging Category:Recurring events established in 1799 to Category:1799 establishments
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, nearly all these categories contain only one article and/or one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:44, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Query - why is this not 'a large established subcat scheme', namely Category:Recurring events by year of establishment, and thus expressly permitted under WP:SMALLCAT? Oculi (talk) 18:26, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The guideline says part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme - which means that it is not permitted to nominate one or a few subcategories of an overall scheme that happen to be small just by chance while adjacent siblings are big enough to keep. The guideline makes perfect sense, but is not applicable here: it is the scheme itself that is being discussed (up to a certain point), not random parts of it. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:50, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Why is 1800 chosen as a cut-off? Is this not a random lopping off of much of the tree? Also Smithfield Show for instance will be taken out of Category:Recurring events altogether. Oculi (talk) 20:27, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
 * It is not random because before 1800 the categories are consistently small. With the proposed merge Smithfield Show will remain in the 1799 tree and it will remain in the agricultural shows tree hence in the tree of recurring events. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:52, 30 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Multiple Merge as nom. By their nature, most annual categories are likely to be single-item ones.  I would however propose a further merge to new century categories up to and including Category:Recurring events established in 17th century and then Category:Recurring events established in 1710s etc. for 18th century, though I could be persuaded that the 18th century should also only have a century category.  The parent would be renamed to Category:Recurring events by date of establishment (currently year of).  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:29, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
 * In fact the large amount of these (ancient, medieval and early modern) recurring events are festivals and the festivals are already diffused by time. So there is no real need to create a parallel recurring events tree for older centuries. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:05, 5 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Buddhist martyrs

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering 07:58, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Buddhist martyrs to Category:Buddhists that died for their religion
 * Nominator's rationale: The concept martyr is alien to Buddhist doctrine, and hardly occurs in relevant scholarship. Standard reference works such as the Encyclopedia of Buddhism and the Princeton Dictionary of Buddhism do not mention the term at all, and the Pali-English Dictionary has one passing mention of the word, which is Greek and only mentioned for etymological reasons, with no bearing on Buddhist doctrine. The concept that a good Buddhist should give his life for his religion is known, but it is differently understood than in Christianity, and I wonder whether it is useful and correct to use Christian terminology to describe another religion. Farang Rak Tham   (Talk) 14:44, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom, who identified and made excellent use of reliable sources. I'm not sure about the proposed title (I'd prefer something like or Category:Buddhists who died for religious reasons, Category:Buddhists who died in the name of Buddhism, or Category:Murders motivated by anti-Buddhist sentiment) but clearly the current title is misleading, factually incorrect, and insensitive. A clear manifestation of the systemic bias of Wikipedia.&thinsp;&mdash; Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)&thinsp; 04:20, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment Thanks. I am okay with Category:Buddhists who died in the name of Buddhism as well.--  Farang Rak Tham   (Talk) 18:12, 1 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Descendants of Genghis Khan

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:57, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Descendants of Genghis Khan to Category:Borjigin
 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge, we do not usually categorize people as descending of one particular ancestor. Note about the target: the Borjigin were the clan of Genghis Khan's ancestors and successors in the Mongol Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:00, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Maybe we should make an exception for him. He appears to have fathered more children than anyone else in the world. Rathfelder (talk) 13:12, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep; If I am correct, we do categorize by descent. Furthermore, as Rathfelder said, this really is a very notable subject. See Descent from Genghis Khan. Possibly see also Haplogroup C-M217.&thinsp;&mdash; Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)&thinsp; 03:51, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Even the queen Victoria descendants category got deleted and for many more examples of deleted descendants categories see here. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:44, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That was before the DNA evidence - His descents, it is suggested, amount to more than a million. Rathfelder (talk) 09:16, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The DNA evidence would be applicable to the entire Borjigin (merge target). The DNA of Genghis Khan's nephews and grandparents would surely be closer to his own than the DNA of a 20th-century descendant. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:29, 1 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete; no objection to a sourced listification. Being descended from Genghis Khan is not inherently notable nor defining. Presumably these folks did more than have some (perhaps infinitesimally small) fraction of DNA in common with Genghis Khan. One could repeat nearly all the "keep" arguments for Category:Descendants of Queen Victoria or Category:Descendants of Christian IX of Denmark both of whose descendants are written about as descendants and many have little claim to notability but for derivative of their lineage. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 05:53, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per Carlos. If he has millions of descendants, most have nothing to do with him. Cannot be considered defining or meaningful to an individual after the fall of the Mongol Empire. Catrìona (talk) 20:20, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
 * (as nom) I would be okay with delete, instead of merge as nominated, after all we also have the Category:Mongol khans which contains the more relevant subset of descendants of Genghis Khan. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:08, 7 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Best Picture Academy Award nominated films

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: category was speedily deleted. Good Ol’factory (talk) 14:16, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting best picture academy award nominated films


 * Nominator's rationale: Per previous discussions, we don't add cats for films that are nominated in a given category, even if it is the Oscars.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 09:27, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete per WP:G4. There is no need for another discussion....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 10:24, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete per past and current WP:CONSENSUS MarnetteD&#124;Talk 16:30, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete per the previous two comments. --- The Old Jacobite The '45 16:49, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Update Along with the G4 noted by I am confident that the category was created by a sock of  (see my filing at Sockpuppet investigations/CensoredScribe) so WP:G5 applies as well. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 03:32, 30 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Pages using infobox officeholder with an atypical party value

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: category was speedily deleted. Good Ol’factory (talk) 14:17, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting pages using infobox officeholder with an atypical party value


 * Nominator's rationale: Unhelpful. Usually it's caused by people who have switched parties or are affiliated with multiple parties at once. I don't see the need for tracking all of them. &thinsp;&mdash; Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)&thinsp; 05:18, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * delete, the addition was in response to this thread after [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Frietjes&diff=prev&oldid=771259158#Tracker_category this request on my talk page]. the proposal is no longer active. Frietjes (talk) 11:53, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Frietjes, I just declined a proposal for speedy deletion of this category per G7/user request; I declined it because you were not the person making the request. But if you want to make a request yourself for speedy deletion per G7, it will probably get honored. --MelanieN (talk) 00:43, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * MelanieN, no problem, I usually wait until the category is empty before tagging it with G7 (the server is still recaching the pages). Frietjes (talk) 13:45, 30 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.