Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 September 4



Category:Stock exchanges in Qatar

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete, merge contents to Category:Financial services companies of Qatar. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:41, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting stock exchanges in qatar


 * Nominator's rationale: There's only one article in the category, and unlikely to be others  DGG ( talk ) 17:00, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * If not kept, merge to Category:Financial services companies of Qatar. Note that the article is already in Category:Stock exchanges in the Middle East. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:05, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SMALL - doesn't seem likely to get much bigger. Merge to Category:Financial services companies of Qatar. Girth Summit  (blether)  06:44, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Financial services companies of Qatar, as User:DGG and User:Girth Summit have not given a rationale for removing the member page from that parent hierarchy. – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:05, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That is a good alternative to deletion - the proposed category is also quite small, but it would seem to have much more capacity to grow, so this seems like a sensible option. Striking my previous comment, support merge. Girth Summit  (blether)  19:27, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree with the merge.  DGG ( talk ) 23:31, 15 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Health drinks

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 02:53, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting health drinks


 * Nominator's rationale: Largely arbitrary category with WP:NONDEFINING scope. Brandmeistertalk  11:47, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete It's a meaningless category. Any drink (barring poison) can be part of a healthy diet, so it would be impossible to exclude anything from the category; specific health-promoting claims for drinks are usually marketing devices which we shouldn't be supporting with a category like this. Girth Summit  (blether)  12:22, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SUBJECTIVECAT and Girth Summit. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 12:32, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. This is not a real classification. Natureium (talk) 14:19, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete: when we find Red wine added to this category (cf. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31310-2/fulltext ), it is clear that the category is not only without scope, but useless as a navigational aid. It then becomes simply misleading. --RexxS (talk) 15:26, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Way too diffuse/problematic as a concept to be a category. Alexbrn (talk) 16:04, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete essentially meaningless Unibond (talk) 20:46, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * delete Marketing shit. "Drinks that promote health." my ass. Jytdog (talk) 20:57, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete What Jytdog said minus the expletives. Carl Fredrik  talk 13:06, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. Blatant woo. Guy (Help!) 22:53, 8 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ottoman rulers of Galilee

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: withdrawn. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:39, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting ottoman rulers of galilee


 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT and move the article Aqil Agha to Category:Ottoman Galilee. The subcat is about rulers for whom Galilee was merely a remote area close to the borders of their territory, so I don't think the subcat should also be moved to Category:Ottoman Galilee. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment - just filled the category with 7 entrances, which encompasses the positions of "Sheikh of Acre and All Galilee", "Emir of Nazareth, Tiberias and Safad", "Multazim of Tiberias", and several other regional positions during four centuries of Ottoman rule in the region. Clearly this can be expanded further.GreyShark (dibra) 06:49, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Withdraw nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:46, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: there are currently only 4 member pages, after removal of Darwish Pasha al-Kurji, Husayn Abd al-Hadi, Jazzar Pasha and Sulayman Pasha al-Adil (by user:Marcocapelle, apparently with accidentally mistyped edit summaries) stating that they are already in Category:Ottoman governors of Sidon. for the sake of establishing the scope of this category, do you any further comments on whether those should be reinstated? – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:17, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Apparently I hadn't noticed that GreyShark had removed Category:Ottoman governors of Sidon as a child category, a few hours earlier. Shouldn't that remain, since all governors of Sidon were rulers of Galilee? Marcocapelle (talk) 21:19, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Not quite governors of Sidon were also rulers of Galilee. Those were most of the time separate positions, with the ruler of Sidon Eyalet being the Wali, while ruler/rulers of Galilee carried the titles of Sanjak administrator such as "Sheikh of Acre and All Galilee", "Emir of Nazareth, Tiberias and Safad", and this was the ruler of the Sanjak of Safed and Sanjak of Acre. Some Walis of Sidon at times also carried the title of the ruler of Galilee in parallel, but this was rare (only when Sidon Eyalet was governed from Acre). Also until the establishment of Sidon Eyalet, the rule over Galilee was at the direct hands of Damascus Eyalet as the Sanjak of Safed. On another occasion, Kurkumaz the ruler of the Mount Lebanon Emirate was appointed ruler of Galilee as well. So, saying that all Walis of Sidon were rulers of Galilee is like saying that all Ottoman Sultans were rulers of Galilee; those were different hierarchy levels of administration.GreyShark (dibra) 10:06, 16 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People associated with the Dil Pickle Club

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  czar  19:38, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting people associated with the dil pickle club


 * Nominator's rationale: delete, not a defining characteristic. Moreover the club is not mentioned at all in many of the articles in the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:34, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. None appear to be sourced, there is no discussion of this in any of the articles I have seen, it appears not to be of any real significance. Guy (Help!) 23:11, 8 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People associated with Conway Hall Ethical Society

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:34, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting people associated with conway hall ethical society


 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:NONDEF and WP:OCASSOC, the society is not even mentioned at all in most of the articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:51, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Peterkingiron's comment suggest that this may be a significant group of people, whose involvement in this society is defining because of their historical influence. The category is therefore worth further discussion. I have just tagged the category talk page with WP Philosophy, Religion, UK etc which may spur further participation.
 * Keep The society has been known as the South Place Ethical Society for most of its life and so that's what you'll tend to find in the articles. Some people are clearly associated, such as Moncure D. Conway and Barbara Smoker. Andrew D. (talk) 07:20, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep As above. Philafrenzy (talk) 08:53, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Alternative: rename and purge. Note that South Place Ethical Society is also not or hardly mentioned in most of the articles. Possibly a defining characteristic, for just a few of these articles, is Category:Lecturers at South Place Ethical Society. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:57, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom & WP:OCASSOC; I don't like the alternative nom proposes above as it becomes very much a WP:PERF category. If membership in the society is notable and defining; perhaps a category for that is sustainable.  Not sure that it would be any more than Category:Member of St. Somebody's Parish, Somewhere would be. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:28, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Rename and prune -- Conway Hall was a unitarian church, whose members abandoned faith in favour of humanism. This is thus the origin of the British Humanist Society.  As such the Hall and its Society is certainly notable.  The question is how to make a satisfactory people category related to that.  "Associated" is too vague.  People who lectured there occasionally would fail WP:PERF.  Mere society membership is certainly not enough.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:55, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:44, 13 August 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment on relisting comment, no doubt that this is a significant topic, but the people can also be kept together in a list. The list that is currently in the Conway Hall Ethical Society article may well be expanded with the members of this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:29, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Further comment -- Listifying in the main article is a valid alternative. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:08, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. I have added all the category members to the lists in the main article, but some of the connections are tenuous or unspecified. During the task I noted that some regular speakers were never formal members, e.g. Archibald Robertson (atheist), so "members" would not be a suitable alternative category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:58, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ℯ xplicit 04:22, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Dutch Frisian people

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: option B, as outlined. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:37, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Dutch Frisian people to Category:People from Friesland
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:OVERLAPCAT, the articles of this category (not the subcat) contain early modern and modern West Frisians while they were concentrated in the nearly mono-ethnic province of Friesland. When merged, the medieval subcategory should be removed from the target category (it could still be linked with a See also note). Marcocapelle (talk) 09:08, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ℯ</b> xplicit 07:07, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep or rename to something else -- I did not vote before, because I was unsure what to do. Dutch Friesland (or West Friesland) is to be distinguished from East Friesland, which is part of Germany.  Historically, its people were also people from Friesland, which means that the category is liable to pick up irrelevant articles.  The classic case on this is Birmingham (whose categories are at Birmingham, West Midlands), to keep out articles about Alabama.  We need to retain a disambiguator in the category name.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:14, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 * That is a misunderstanding, Friesland is a Dutch name of an official Dutch province, never called West Friesland, and is not ambiguous. It might alternatively be called West Frisia in English (although If 'm not sure if that actually happens, the page of West Frisia is poorly documented), since it is the western part of the unofficial wider coastal region of Frisia to which East Frisia and North Frisia also belong, but certainly not West Friesland. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:01, 13 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:39, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: most of the contents are within the target category or its sub-cats already. These are the exceptions:
 * 1) May be sufficiently categorised already:
 * 2) Frederick of Utrecht – in subcat Category:Medieval West Frisians which is sufficient
 * 3) Gerard Edema – Dutch emigrant; in Category:British people of Frisian descent and Category:Frisian painters which appear sufficient
 * 4) Frederick Manfred – not Dutch; in Category:American people of Frisian descent which is sufficient
 * 5) Emo of Friesland – in subcat Category:Medieval West Frisians which is sufficient
 * 6) Ygo Gales Galama – in subcat Category:Medieval West Frisians which is sufficient
 * 7) Can easily be categorised in a subcat:
 * 8) Johannes Bogerman – East Frisian; important C16 Dutch theologian; became a pastor in Sneek, Friesland, so could be added to Category:People from Sneek
 * 9) Not from Friesland but Frisian identity might be WP:defining, as part of Category:Dutch people by ethnic or national origin:
 * 10) Simon Heere Heeresma – from Amsterdam; in Category:Frisian writers
 * 11) Hendrik Godfried Duurkoop – East Frisian; C18 Dutch diplomat
 * 12) Pier Vellinga – living scientist from Amsterdam, in Category:Frisian scientists
 * 13) Wiebbe Hayes – surmised Frisian descent, from Winschoten in Groningen Province bordering Friesland
 * 14) Cornelius Gemma – from Leuven (now Belgium); in Category:Frisian scientists
 * 15) Christiaan Slieker – from Frisian family of travelling showpeople
 * 16) Douwe Bob – born in Amsterdam into a Frisian family
 * 17) Famke Janssen – born in North Holland, no rationale stated for category
 * Presumably it would not be appropriate to rename the category to Category:Dutch people of Frisian descent. I suggest that the remaining question is whether Frisian identity is WP:defining for enough of the last group, as part of Category:Dutch people by ethnic or national origin, to make the category worth keeping. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:31, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for sorting this out! With the latter 8 biographies, most of these people were born outside Friesland so a descent category might be applicable. Category:Dutch people of Frisian descent would initially seem a weird category, but it is very much comparable to Category:British people of Scottish descent for people born in England with Scottish parents. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:55, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Ha! I did not know about that British one. Well, it is a long-standing precedent, and certainly seems comparable. Let's see whether other editors find the idea acceptable. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:52, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <b style="color:#4B0082;">ℯ</b> xplicit 04:22, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * So apart from adding the one article in User:Fayenatic london's second set to Category:People from Sneek (I've done that already), the alternatives are:
 * Option A Delete entirely.
 * Option B Purge and rename the remnants to Category:Dutch people of Frisian descent.
 * As the nominator, I strongly support either of the two options, with a weak preference for option B. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:29, 4 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Purge pages that are within Category:People from Friesland or its sub-cats, Category:People of Frisian descent or its sub-cats, or Category:Medieval West Frisians; and rename to Category:Dutch people of Frisian descent. – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:23, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * So that is option B, right? Marcocapelle (talk) 20:10, 16 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Androni–Sidermec–Bottecchia
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep but remove articles about individual cyclists, as discussed. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:27, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting androni–sidermec–bottecchia


 * Nominator's rationale: Category setup for the cyclists on an individual team. As far as I know, we don't have a structure for doing this for cyclists, and would create a lot of category clutter with cyclists moving from team to team on a frequent basis. Compare the Category:Team Sky, which doesn't do this (no Chris Froome, for example).  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 06:51, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep but remove the individual cyclists from the category. Leave three articles in it (Androni–Sidermec–Bottecchia, List of Androni Giocattoli–Sidermec rosters, team manager Gianni Savio) with a potential for growth. 91.124.117.194 (talk) 12:37, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SMALLCAT after purging per comment above. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:49, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <b style="color:#4B0082;">ℯ</b> xplicit 04:08, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep but purge, to the three articles stated above plus two more that I just added for the 2014 & 2015 seasons. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:55, 6 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.