Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 August 23



Category:Mosques in Casablanca

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 09:03, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Mosques in Casablanca to Category:Mosques in Morocco and Category:Religious buildings and structures in Casablanca
 * Propose merging Category:Mosques in Rabat to Category:Mosques in Morocco and Category:Religious buildings and structures in Rabat
 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, only one and two mosques in these categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:07, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Merge per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 13:18, 24 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Castle (franchise)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 08:59, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Castle (franchise) to Category:Castle (TV series)
 * Nominator's rationale: For categorization purposes, this doesn't seem to need to the "franchise" tag. There were a couple of tie-in novels but everything still relates to the original series. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 16:40, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Support rename per nom. Her Pegship (really?) 20:07, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Iranian emigrants to Netherlands

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy delete (G6 and C2). -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:52, 25 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting iranian emigrants to netherlands


 * Nominator's rationale: Category:Iranian emigrants to the Netherlands already exists. David Biddulph (talk) 14:16, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete, to be regarded as a plain typo. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 24 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:DAB ensemble

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Digital audio broadcasting multiplexes. MER-C 09:00, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:DAB ensemble to Category:DAB multiplexes
 * Nominator's rationale: The unusual singular name of this category would merit a change alone, but I also think the term DAB multiplex instead of DAB ensemble is more widely used (particularly in the UK and Ireland articles that are in this category; only one uses "ensemble" in the lede) and the main "article" itself is a sentence in another article. Raymie (t • c) 03:36, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Alternative suggestion Category:Digital audio broadcasting multiplexes, avoiding the acronym. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:10, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 10:02, 20 July 2019 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 09:08, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * what is your opinion about the alternative? Marcocapelle (talk) 11:04, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * It's probably a lot clearer as a category name and I'd support it. Raymie (t • c) 18:11, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Support  rename to Category:Digital audio broadcasting multiplexes per Digital Audio Broadcasting (which is probably mis-capitalized). Oculi (talk) 12:58, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I have boldly moved the article to Digital audio broadcasting (uncapitalized). Marcocapelle (talk) 17:15, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * You are a daring editor. Many would have trembled at the task. Oculi (talk) 16:06, 24 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Civil awards and decorations of Andhra Pradesh

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 09:04, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Civil awards and decorations of Andhra Pradesh to Category:State awards and decorations of India and Category:Culture of Andhra Pradesh
 * Propose merging Category:Civil awards and decorations of Kerala to Category:State awards and decorations of India and Category:Culture of Kerala
 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently contains only one article each. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:32, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 10:14, 22 July 2019 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 09:02, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge as nominated. -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:55, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge as per the nomination. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 06:06, 27 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Killer shark films

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Films about shark attacks. MER-C 09:00, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Killer shark films to Category:Films about killer sharks
 * Nominator's rationale: Probably less necessary here than in other instances, but category should still be renamed to make it more clear that it's to be applied when killer sharks are a primary aspect of the film, not for films in which killer sharks incidentally appear. DonIago (talk) 03:33, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support: I created this category years ago, when I was much less experienced with Wikipedia. I think phrasing it as "Films about killer sharks" helps to clarify the category's topic far better than "Killer shark films" does. – Matthew  - (talk) 04:00, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't supposed we could get a WP:SNOW at this point... :p DonIago (talk) 04:33, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support, especially since, to a shark fan, all shark films are killer. —&thinsp;AReaderOutThataway&thinsp;t/c 18:33, 14 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:31, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support Clearer definition. However, the main article here is shark attack. Should it be instead renamed to Category:Films about shark attacks? Dimadick (talk) 07:05, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It would perhaps broaden the scope slightly but I would not object to this alternative. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:12, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd be okay with that. I'm not entirely sure what makes a shark a "killer shark" anyhow. Any thoughts on this? DonIago (talk) 14:11, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 09:06, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Relisting comment: rename to what? MER-C 09:06, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Unless anyone objects, I'd say Category:Films about shark attacks as "killer shark" is a potentially unclear term, while shark attack seems more clear...though I guess it doesn't specify attacks against humans... DonIago (talk) 16:29, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Support renaming to Category:Films about shark attacks. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:37, 28 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Maney Publishing academic journals
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 September 7%23Category:Maney Publishing academic journals

Category:Viral drinks

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 10:38, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Viral drinks to Category:Drink fads
 * Nominator's rationale: "Viral" is ambiguous, and the Internet-slang sense is not the primary one. The most substantial article in here is Popularity spikes of drinks, a topic broad enough to encompass drink fads that pre-date the Internet and "viral" Internet memes. —&thinsp;AReaderOutThataway&thinsp;t/c 18:31, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Merge to parent categories per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:27, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 09:04, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Upmerge although I am less than convinced that fads is definable enough to categorize by, it seems very much an arbitrary thing, and maybe not defining for some things, that may have been a fad for a year but existed in total for 50 plus. However that would require a discussion of that category, for now we can upmerge this one category. Virality is even harder to pin down than being a fad. It may make sense for a category like Category:Viral videos, but does not make sense for mass produced physical objects.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:32, 14 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Saudi Arabian women's rights activists
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. There is consensus to not merge as nominated, but no broader consensus that I could discern. Compelling arguments were offered that "women's rights activist" and "feminist" overlap but are not identical due to scope ("women's rights" versus "feminism"), level of implied activity ("activist" implies activity whereas "feminist" implies ideology), or both. In addition, from a procedural perspective, it would be problematic to treat a single nationality differently from the ~100 others in Category:Women's rights activists by nationality and in Category:Feminists by nationality. If anyone is interested, I would suggest seeking a broader consensus, perhaps at a venue other than CfD, related to the appropriate uses of the labels "women's rights activist" and "feminist". -- Black Falcon (talk) 23:34, 19 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Propose merging Category:Saudi Arabian women's rights activists to Category:Saudi Arabian feminists
 * Nominator's rationale: Given the en.Wikipedia articles women's rights and feminists, and the lack of sources suggesting any claim that Saudi Arabian feminists are not Saudi Arabian women's rights activists or vice versa, it's confusing to have two different categories. The lead of feminism clearly applies to all the Saudi feminists/women's rights activists categorised so far as per the sources. Comment: Saudi Arabian women's rights activists was only created on 21 December 2018, while Saudi Arabian feminists‎ dates back to 2011 without any apparent controversy. Boud (talk) 21:41, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

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 * Comment, it seems that this requires a broader discussion about the overlap between the women's rights activists and feminists categories, it is not a problem of one single country. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced of the sense of widening the debate. I'm asking here about the specific case of a community that is mostly not English-speaking - the sources in the relevant Wikipedia articles are mostly English-language descriptions of events that happen mostly in Arabic and there's no hint of a semantic/political debate about Saudi feminists being worried about a separation between being described as "feminists" versus "women's rights activists". They're more worried about getting out of prison, getting phony legal cases against them dropped, trying for legal action against their torturers, and getting rights enacted in practice. If the semantic division is absent among Saudi feminists, then imposing it would seem to me to risk being OR. Boud (talk) 20:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Not all women's rights activists consider themselves feminists, eg advocating gender-egalitarianism rather than feminism. We should not automatically categorize someone who advocates women's rights as a "feminist" unless they describe him/herself as such or are described as such. Zerach (talk) 09:04, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The lead of feminism says "Feminism is a range of social movements, political movements, and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes.[a][2][3][4][5]" and a bit later "Most western feminist historians contend that all movements working to obtain women's rights should be considered feminist movements, even when they did not (or do not) apply the term to themselves.[20][21][22][23][24][25] Other historians assert that the term should be limited to the modern feminist movement and its descendants." Should we (en.Wikipedia) disagree with "most western feminist historians"? I agree that if any particular feminist/women's rights activist has a preference for/against one term or the other, it would be reasonable to respect that within the article (BLP), but imposing a Western[*] semantic (euphemistic) division absent from the Saudi situation on Categories seems to me risk being OR (as in my comment above). As far as I can see, none of the Saudi feminists we have articles for is known to have claimed that s/he is "not a feminist" (this could be due to a lack of sources, or to a lack of priority given to the semantic question).
 * [*] As viewed by Hatoon al-Fassi, a Saudi academic, the dramatically anti-women situation in current Saudi Arabia historically traces back to Western (ancient Greek/Roman) anti-women biases. Boud (talk) 20:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment/ALT1: Would it be acceptable to assume that every Saudi Arabian feminist is a Saudi Arabian women's rights activist, and make the former a sub-category of the latter (instead of a merge)? While there would be initially no pages that are only in the latter category, this would allow for the future possibility of a women's rights activist not wanting the label "feminist" to be categorised only in Category:Saudi Arabian women's rights activists. This would also solve the over-categorisation problem of existing articles on Saudi feminists. Boud (talk) 20:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Further comment, in most articles in this category the women are characterized as women's rights activists rather than as feminists. This suggests a reverse merge or a reverse ALT1 would be more appropriate. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:43, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 * How about reverse merge? Peterkingiron (talk) 17:42, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I see no objections to a reverse merge: semantically and in terms of sources, better have one category rather than two with no clear justification of any mismatches between the two sets. If in the future it becomes clear enough from the sources that there are one or more Saudi feminists/women's right activists who insist on being called feminists in English (or the translators make this clear as a fair translation from Arabic), e.g. because they see "women's rights activists" as being an unnecessary euphemism, then the two categories could presumably be separated again, but it's unlikely to be me proposing the separation. Boud (talk) 00:54, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 09:04, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I dont see this issue as specific to Saudi Arabia. All the feminist and womens rights activists categories overlap. It's hard to find anyone who isnt in both categories. Rathfelder (talk) 07:40, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose at least on procedural grounds. I am not sure that 19th-century suffragist would easily fall under the heading of "feminists". However mainly we have a whole tree of these two categories, and nothing particular to Saudi Arabia to oppose two categories. So either we should have a tree of both, or not. One thing is someone can be a feminist without being truly an activist. A feminist could be a passive writer who never gets involved in any formal activism.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:39, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Reverse merge perferably for entire tree, but otherwise to. There is too much overlap between these categories trees for it to be useful and I find the risk for accidental WP:OR by forgetting to place an article in both categories large. Regarding 's example of a passive writer not being an activist but being a feminist, I disagree with that statement and would consider a writer notable for supporting Women's rights in their texts a women's rights activist. --Trialpears (talk) 22:44, 21 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Aporia (genus)
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 09:01, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Aporia (genus) to Category:Aporia (butterfly)
 * Nominator's rationale: C2D The main article has been renamed to match with the disambiguator used by most others in the series. SchreiberBike &#124; ⌨  04:15, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Speedy rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:48, 29 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Taxa named by Grigory Grumm-Grzhimaylo
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 09:01, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Taxa named by Grigory Grumm-Grzhimaylo to Category:Taxa named by Grigory Grum-Grshimailo
 * Nominator's rationale: C2D The main article (Grigory Grum-Grshimailo) has been moved as that name seems to be the most common transliteration of the Russian name. SchreiberBike &#124; ⌨  04:09, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Support as per nom. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:33, 28 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Upcoming PlayStation 4-only games
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 08:58, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting upcoming playstation 4-only games


 * Nominator's rationale: Not needed, we already have the Upcoming video games and PlayStation 4-only games categories. ~ <b style="color: #660000;">Dissident93</b> (<b style="color: #D18719;">talk</b>) 03:24, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Support Wikipedia is not in the business of advertising a particular system's new releases. Upcoming games is sufficient.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 04:05, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per Dissident and Xxcvbnm--Alexandra IDVtalk 10:56, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support as per nom. TheDeviantPro (talk) 03:40, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment Category has been emptied. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 03:05, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. -- CptViraj (📧) 05:41, 31 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Video games directed by Hideki Konno
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 09:02, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting video games directed by hideki konno


 * Nominator's rationale: Only a single valid entry; with no other possible ones. ~ <b style="color: #660000;">Dissident93</b> (<b style="color: #D18719;">talk</b>) 03:16, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Support This category only makes sense for directors that have created multiple video games.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 04:06, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Demon video games
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 09:01, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Demon video games to Category:Video games about demons
 * Nominator's rationale: The current title is confusing and suggests the games were *made* by demons, not have them in it. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 02:46, 23 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:36, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Also spells out that the demon content should be defining and not just incidental (ie Shin Megami Tensei is about a demon invasion, while the chest demons in Paper Mario 2 are minor NPCs).--Alexandra IDVtalk 11:06, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support, and also all of these other similar categories here. It looks like "Demons in video games' would be the more common wording. ~ <b style="color: #660000;">Dissident93</b> (<b style="color: #D18719;">talk</b>) 13:41, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * People have strayed away from using such wording because of WP:NONDEF. It should make it clear that it has to be definining and not just appear in the game.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 08:32, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support the nom per arguments provided, and support renaming cats at the provided link as well. Heck, if we had a way to safely do this on a more global level, I'd likely support that as well. DonIago (talk) 17:21, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support The current title has unfortunate implications, suggesting that the video games are themselves demons. Dimadick (talk) 10:47, 27 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.