Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 5



Category:Triple Changers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:42, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting triple changers


 * Nominator's rationale: This is an overly specific in-universe designation that is not useful to the general reader. All characters are covered in the Autobot and Decepticon categories. TTN (talk) 21:41, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:38, 13 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Predacons

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:42, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting predacons


 * Nominator's rationale: Overly specific in-universe term unneeded for the general reader. The articles are covered under the Decepticon category. TTN (talk) 21:35, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:39, 13 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Maximals

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:43, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting maximals


 * Nominator's rationale: Overly specific in-universe term unneeded for the general reader. The articles are covered under the Autobots category. TTN (talk) 21:34, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:39, 13 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Autobots
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 22%23Category:Autobots

Category:Decepticons
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 20%23Category:Decepticons

Category:Transformers automobiles
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 22%23Category:Transformers automobiles

Category:Action Masters
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 20%23Category:Action Masters

Category:Female Transformers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 19:45, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Female Transformers to Category:Transformers robot characters
 * Nominator's rationale: Only two articles. TTN (talk) 20:53, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Merge per WP:SMALLCAT, at least to Category:Fictional women soldiers and warriors and probably also to the Transformers characters parent. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:19, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Transformers: Prime characters
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 20%23Category:Transformers: Prime characters

Category:Transformers: Energon characters

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:43, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting transformers


 * Nominator's rationale: Only two articles. There's no need to upmerge. The parent category has the character list in it already. TTN (talk) 20:22, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:08, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Austro-Hungarian Jews who died in the Holocaust

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:43, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting austro-hungarian jews who died in the holocaust


 * Nominator's rationale: Austria-Hungary disappeared in 1918 so even if people were born under Austria-Hungary, they were not Austro-Hungarian at the time of the Holocaust. Le Deluge (talk) 18:59, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:34, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:00, 6 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Afro-Eurasian ancestry Wikipedians

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:43, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting afro-eurasian ancestry wikipedians


 * Nominator's rationale: There's a long-standing consensus against Afro-Eurasian categories per eg Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_March_5, and I'm not sure how it specifically helps Wikipedia to know that editors claim ancestry from somewhere on 60% of the world's surface. Le Deluge (talk) 18:10, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. The parent Category:Afro-Eurasia user categories and sibling Category:Wikipedians interested in Afro-Eurasia should probably be nominated as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:38, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Middle-earth Dragons

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 19:46, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Middle-earth Dragons to Category:Fictional dragons
 * Nominator's rationale: Only three articles, soon to be two after an AfD. Dragon (Middle-earth) should go to Middle-earth races and the characters should go to Middle-earth characters. TTN (talk) 16:29, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:00, 6 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Moons of Haumea

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. MER-C 10:02, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting moons of haumea


 * Nominator's rationale: This is the only category for moons of anything other than the eight major planets and Pluto. It's populated only with the two moons and Moons of Haumea (the last of which should probably be merged into Haumea anyway). Clarityfiend (talk) 21:06, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Merge to both parent categories per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:38, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 08:52, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep as part of wider category scheme on moons. Dimadick (talk) 10:37, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Very weak keep. Exploration of the outer solar system is ongoing, so chances are this category could grow, and as Dimadick points out, it is (barely) part of a category scheme. Grutness... wha?   13:46, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Weak keep - Haumea is a minor planet in the solar system and (apparently) the only one where moons have so far been detected. The issue is perhaps more whether we need article on the moons about which we seem to known almost nothing but that they exist.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:01, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's the only one where more than one moon has been detected. Having a category for just one moon, however, would be trivial. Grutness... wha?   03:12, 7 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Norwegian awards
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 17%23Norwegian awards

Monegasque awards
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 17%23Monegasque awards

Greek awards
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 17%23Greek awards

Category:Cloud infrastructure attacks & failures
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 28%23Category:Cloud infrastructure attacks & failures

Category:Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe fighters

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:43, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting mortal kombat vs. dc universe fighters


 * Nominator's rationale: The subject of this category isn't remotely notable. What other individual fighting games have a character category? Imagine clicking on the Scorpion (Mortal Kombat) article and seeing "Category:Mortal Kombat (video game) characters", "Category:Mortal Kombat 2 characters", ETC, all down the References section. There are also no other video games or genres where we create a category for characters appearing in an individual installment of a series that I'm aware of. This is so fringe that, at first, I thought had created another sock.  Dark  Knight  2149  02:47, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 08:52, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. Nomination rationale is sound. WP:SMALLCAT -2pou (talk) 15:38, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. Not a particularly useful cross-section of the broader category. -- GentlemanGhost  (séance)  14:38, 10 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Films based on real people

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 16:01, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Films based on real people to Category:Biographical films
 * Nominator's rationale: Was proposed for merger in Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_July_13, but the proposal was lost in the subsequent discussion. This is a procedural nomination, I have no opinion on the matter. MER-C 10:30, 6 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Support, I checked a dozen articles and they were all biographical films. In addition, they all happened to be Indian films. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:14, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom and Marcocapelle. Place Clichy (talk) 13:59, 8 October 2019 (UTC) Changed opinion, see below. Place Clichy (talk) 16:13, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note on implementation, when this is merged, Category:Works based on real people should be added as a parent to Category:Biographical films. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:05, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Question: should this nomination be expanded to include mergers of corresponding sub-cats such as Category:Films about Billy the Kid / Category:Biographical films about Billy the Kid, Category:Films about Adolf Hitler / Category:Biographical films about Adolf Hitler? (If so, I would suggest that the target not include "biographical", as this is unnecessary and not the dominant pattern. Also, in each case, parent categories would have to be carefully combined.) – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:41, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I would support that, either now or in a fresh nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:23, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * The existence of those multiple categories does beg the question whether all are . Fantasy films including historical characters, or  with them, are not biographical. Hitler – Dead or Alive appears to be a case in point. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:08, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Assuming that the target does not include "biographical", that should not be a big problem. In the example, it still is a film about Hitler. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:13, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Right. If the Hitler categories were merged to Category:Films about Adolf Hitler, they would be mostly biographical, so that is sufficient per WP:SUBCAT for Category:Films about Adolf Hitler to be in Category:Biographical films. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:29, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep and purge. Subcategories are conveniently split between biographical and non-biographical films (see, , ). Also, this is part of a structure, with parent also having a sub . However, actual biographical films currently located at the root of Category:Films based on real people as mentioned by Marcocapelle should be moved to Category:Biographical films. I also note that some subcategories were added since the start of this discussion, such as  and . Place Clichy (talk) 16:13, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Although I raised this above (and made those additions), I'm wondering whether it is a helpful distinction after all. I believe that the splits are incomplete, inconsistent and mostly just accidents of historical naming. Only three types of media (comics, films and plays) appear to have both "biographical" and "based on real people" categories. – Fayenatic  L ondon 14:29, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Indeed, it is quite understandable that there is a difference between a biographical film and a fictional one, but maintaining these categories may be harder in practice. Works like Chaplin's 1940 The Great Dictator, arguably based on Hitler, or Shakespeare's Julius Caesar and derivative works, or most of the cultural depictions of Cleopatra can hardly be considered biographical. This difference, if it must be maintained, should even be at a higher level than just for films. I believe that this is what we had, albeit for part of the category tree only, and that the current changes are erasing this difference. Place Clichy (talk) 12:01, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 10:00, 18 October 2019 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Merge the two trees placing any biographical films category as a subcat of the films about category. This would address 's concern that the distinction is removed when it's actually useful and would allow for deletion and upmerging of biographical films categories where the distinction isn't useful. Again my proposal is a tree like Category:Films based on real people -> Category:Films about Person -> Category:Biographical films about Person (if warranted). ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 13:22, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 00:21, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Weak keep - as queried above, if these are merged how do we deal with films like Young Einstein and Insignificance, which are based on real people but clearly not biographical? And what about roman á clef films such as Citizen Kane? Grutness... wha?   13:41, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * If a film is wholly fictional I would consider the fact that a real person has been 'used' for it to be trivial. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:35, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * They would still, however, be "films based on real people". Grutness... wha?   03:08, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Technically yes, but not worth keeping up a category for it. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:45, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Another question - what about films that deal with actual events which - by their nature- deal with real people but are not biographical? Films like Apollo 13 and JFK, for instance? Grutness... wha?   03:09, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * We have Category:Drama films based on actual events for that. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:45, 7 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Merge If the film does not fit this category it should be in Category:Drama films based on actual events.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:33, 17 January 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.