Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 January 6



Category:HBCU alumni

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. (non-admin closure) ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:32, 14 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting hbcu alumni


 * Nominator's rationale: Or at the very least, turn into a container category that only has subcategories of HBCUs. There is no need to have someone in both this category and (e.g.) Category:Morehouse College alumni. I think the name should be changed as well if kept. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:48, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete His recent similar creation Category:Ivy League academics is on it's way to deletion, and yet he continues to created more categories that the same criteria apply to, so we also should topic ban this editor from creating more categories. Natureium (talk) 23:35, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete - there is already Category:Alumni by historically black university or college in the United States. Oculi (talk) 13:18, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per Oculi; redundant to an existing container category. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 20:09, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete as a duplicate of an existing category, per Oculi. Also, better to spell the name out, as in the current category, than use an acronym that may not be familiar to readers, as in the category proposed for deletion. Levivich (talk) 18:55, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to Category:Alumni by historically black university or college in the United States. HBCU is a commonly used acronym. MassiveEartha (talk) 14:38, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge/redirect would be useful if this were an established category and had things linking to it, but it was just created and can be deleted just as easily. Natureium (talk) 17:38, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Merge and redirect to Category:Alumni by historically black university or college in the United States +1 Leutha (talk) 07:35, 11 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional organizations designated as terrorist

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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 * The result of the discussion was: Merge. (non-admin closure) ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:36, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Fictional organizations designated as terrorist to Category:Fictional terrorist organizations
 * Nominator's rationale: This may be an appropriate categorization scheme, but it is in-universe to describe an organization as "designated as terrorist" rather than simply "terrorist". – Laundry Pizza 03  ( d c&#x0304; ) 22:30, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Clearer scope. Designated by which authority?Dimadick (talk) 09:06, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per above. PrussianOwl (talk) 17:11, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose - part of the hierarchy, as in designated by a state or multinational organisation.  We do it that was to at least have some minimum standard for what is a "terrorist" - otherwise you just have personal opinions that eg the US Air Force is a terrorist organisation. Yes there is a bit of a problem with in-world-ness, but that's less problematic than indiscriminate use of the terrorist word.Le Deluge (talk) 10:32, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment And which multinational organisation offers designations for fictional organizations? Dimadick (talk) 10:36, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. WP:LABEL should generally not a concern when we're dealing with fictional organizations. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 19:22, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom until someone establishs an organisation to designate fictional organisations. Rathfelder (talk) 10:08, 13 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Famous animals of Huntsville, Alabama

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Upmerge to . עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 13:21, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting Category:Famous animals of Huntsville, Alabama
 * Nominator's rationale: I've tried to figure out why we have this category of famous animals from Huntsville, Alabama but there is nothing at Huntsville, Alabama that reveals a reason and no other categories of famous animals from any other location. I think Miss Baker and Lily Flagg should just be listed with the other famous individual animals at Category:Individual animals in the United States where they are already listed. Liz Read! Talk! 20:14, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * As creator of this category, I don't have a strong opinion. I created it because I found multiple instances of famous animals from Huntsville.  N<3 after some years, so I can see why we would delete it.  (There may be others, but I can't think of them just now.)  In the end, the animals need to be categorized as famous animals AND Huntsville because of their ties to the city.  -- ke4roh (talk) 12:00, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete "Famous" is to subjective to be the basis of a Wikipedia category. UnitedStatesian (talk) 13:08, 7 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete as a true but not a defining trait for which we categorize animals. Of trivial interest to Huntsville residents, but not realistically useful. --Animalparty! (talk) 05:20, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete, but not for the reasons given by other voters. If Category:Individual animals in the United States had a significant number of Huntsville animals, this would be a common-sense way to split it up; the only problem with this category's concept (as opposed to the name) is that there isn't a significant number of animals.  Nyttend (talk) 12:14, 8 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Autism quackery

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Keep and rename to Category:Autism pseudoscience or equivalent. The argument that the existence of a category for this concept is itself an NPOV violation clearly does not have consensus. Evidence has been provided of the existence of pseudoscientific practices and beliefs related to autism, and substantial previous consensus exists for analogous categories. The misapplication of this category to specific individuals may constitute a BLP violation, but that is an issue that needs to be addressed by fixing those pages, not by deleting the category. There is therefore no consensus to delete. The arguments to keep are mostly about the validity of the category as a concept. There is little support for the argument that "quackery" is a neutral, non-pejorative term, in contrast to several reasoned arguments that "quackery" is unnecessarily prejudicial and colloquial. That term therefore needs to be replaced in the name of this category. "Category:Autism pseudoscience" has the strongest support, but an equivalent term would be acceptable. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:58, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting autism quackery
 * Nominator's rationale: Non-neutral categorization of organizations, methods, and people. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 19:49, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep We already have the articles. We already describe their topic as pseudoscience and quackery. There's no non-neutrality to then group these into a category. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:48, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep
 * Category creator's response Quack and Quackery are already widely-used terms both on Wikipedia and elsewhere. We have pages on Quackery, Radioactive quackery and a category on Category:Quacks. My hope for this category is that it will provide something that's specifically about Autism while also covering quacks, quack treatments and the side effects of / damage from those treatments. JoBrodie (talk) 20:57, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep It is useful to flag articles as explicitly addressing quackery and misinformation as it relates to autism because there are a number of harmful interventions specifically targeting the condition. Putting them in a category makes them easier to find. Seantellis (talk) 21:14, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep but rename I don't know what a better name would be, but I'm sure we could find something that seems less POV. Natureium (talk) 21:53, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Suggestion: Category:Autism pseudoscience, aligned with the name of its parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:34, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep It's a useful page to list the various dubious treatments out there that many fall prey to - autism is an area that quacks are very prone to try to take advantage of. I'm sure the list could be expanded - there are lots of them out there. Zeno27 (talk) 22:38, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to Category:Autism pseudoscience. Quackery is too informal. Jehochman Talk 23:25, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename as Category:Autism-related pseudoscience. "Quackery" sounds opinionated. Tornado chaser (talk) 23:29, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * WPA quack poster.jpg
 * 'Quack' has a long and robust pedigree (see adjacent image). Andy Dingley (talk) 00:57, 7 January 2019 (UTC)


 * I suppose Autism pseudoscience or Autism-related pseudoscience could work if most people consider them to be more neutral than Autism quackery so perhaps that's the solution. However 'pseudoscience' is also an opinionated value judgment (ie it's not science) so ... not sure. We have a Quackery page which suggests its perceived informality isn't all that problematic, and plenty of people have been added to Category:Quacks. However if this brings a quick (as opposed to quack) resolution and more people are happy with it, let's change it :) JoBrodie (talk) 00:01, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Pseudoscience would be better as the anti-vaccination causes autism issue is discussed there in a paragraph. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 01:46, 7 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep Clear category name. Quackery is the promotion of fraudulent or ignorant medical practices, and unfortunately autism is a topic that attracts numerous quacks. Dimadick (talk) 09:09, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining, even if "quackery" is verifiable. --Animalparty! (talk) 05:16, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete; it's grossly non-neutral, as is "pseudoscience" as well. Nyttend (talk) 12:11, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep but remove inflammatory wording if your goal is to help parents make the right decisions. Someone who is considering using the quackery, well, let's just say we ALL can be fooled if we are in a fragile state, which newly diagnosed children's parents are, will automatically be threatened by inflammatory wording and just dig in deeper. It's human nature, in'nt it? It's important to reach those who can be reached. Just my 2 cents. Jrbwalk (talk) 15:04, 8 January 2019 (UTC)Jrbwalk
 * Keep and I would prefer renaming to Category:Autism pseudoscience. Neutrality is not about never saying anything bad, but about reporting (in this case) scientific consensus, and in these cases we are talking about ideas which are contrary to medical science. "Pseudoscience" and "quackery" are both accurate terms for this. It's also definitely a defining category (take doTerra, which marketed its main product as an autism treatment). — Bilorv(c)(talk) 18:01, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete, or rename as Category:Autism pseudoscience.
 * The use of the pejorative term "quackery" is a blatant breach of WP:NPOV. It is an emotive term designed to stigmatise, and this sort of partisan terminology would not be tolerated in any other topic area.  We do not, for example have a Category:Corporate Democrats, Category:Loony left, [[:Category:Trumptards] or any other such stigmatising categories.
 * Where reliable sources explicitly describe a topic as "pseudoscience", then that term may be used if WP:WEIGHT supports it. I'm not happy about the way that the term "pseudoscience" is applied to work which is merely disproven or invalidated, rather than to work which does not use the scientific method. But the use of "quack" is part of a quest by some editors for overtly partisan labelling which has no place in an NPOV encyclopedia. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:16, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Well obviously I prefer renaming to deleting (I am the category's creator) but since WP already has both an article and a category called Quackery or Quacks I'm not sure what the NPOV objection is (or how the presumed POV objections were resolved for those pages, which now seem to be reasonably uncontroversial). If NPOV is a problem in this area then how is it that other people have been categorised as quacks? There are loads of people there, presumably being stigmatised.
 * Incientally I think this discussion arose after I applied the category to Jenny McCarthy (there were then a couple of reverts) - she definitely promotes autism quackery, or autism pseudoscience if you prefer that term, though is not herself a quack (so can't be categorised as Category:Quacks. Her autism activism makes up a big chunk on her page and I think the overall page should have either Autism quackery or Autism pseudoscience as a category. Her ideas that vaccines cause autism, or that she has cured her son of autism are wrong - her views on this would seem to be unambiguously quackish and pseudoscientific. (Have added a P to BrownHairedGirl's preceding comment WP:NOV to read WP:NPOV as it was redirecting to a page about novels) JoBrodie (talk) 17:20, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * @JoBrodie, you inadvertently illustrate precisely why this sort of category is so disgracefully POV. You write of Jenny McCarthy that her views on this would seem to be unambiguously quackish and pseudoscientific, without citing a single RS applying those labels to her, let alone applying the WP:WEIGHT test. Instead, you make your own subjective judgement to justify the use of these pejorative labels.
 * This is an NPOV encyclopedia. If you want to go around casting your own value judgements and pushing your own POV, start your own website. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:56, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Other celebs such also ascribe to antivaccination, some with the fear they may cause autism ; does that mean they are quackish as well? AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 18:12, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Pretty much, yes. Personally I'd probably only recommend adding the ones that have specifically focused on autism (as Jenny McCarthy has). JoBrodie (talk) 18:28, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Again, @JoBrodie, you substitute your own personal view, rather than applying WP:WEIGHT to the comentary in relaible sources. WE have clear policies here, which you are blatantly flouting. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:10, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * In what way have I managed to flout anything? I've created Category:Autism quackery and applied it to pages where the subject matter relates to unevidenced assertions about autism. (I haven't even managed to apply it to Jenny McCarthy as it was reverted anyway). I can see that Category:Quacks is similarly used (though only to people, not treatments etc) and am puzzled that it's managed to achieve that without the same charge of 'personal views' being applied. Given that it's still in place, and pretty similar to this new category, I don't understand why said new category would cause any additional problems. CEASE therapy is potentially harmful nonsense offered as a treatment for autism without evidence, it is also criticised by several regulatory bodies in the UK - it is Autism quackery. If the worst that can be said about the category is its name then I'm happy for it to be changed to Category:Autism pseudoscience although I see that that may also be considered as being pejorative (but again, why not for Category:Quacks?) Regarding WP:WEIGHT, it's an incorrect view that vaccination causes autism (there is an entire page on the MMR vaccine controversy), it would certainly be a minority view among scientists and doctors. Incidentally that page has been labelled with categories that reference fraud, scandals and misconduct so I'm left scratching my head a bit as to why 'my' category is problematic when there are similar already in use and those ones that might be considered as being much more pejorative. Is it that a page or reference should specifically say 'pseudoscience' or 'quack/quackery' before that label can be applied, so if someone hasn't said that about a topic or person then that category can't be applied? JoBrodie (talk) 10:29, 11 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Note: Discussion reopened and relisted per Deletion review/Log/2019 January 12. –&#8239;Joe (talk) 11:57, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to Autism pseudoscience. We need to use a non-inflammatory name or else the reader will be put off. It makes sense to use the same naming convention as the parent category. Jehochman Talk 13:50, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep/Rename To Autism pseudoscience to match Category:Pseudoscience parent category. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:39, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how long this discussion still needs to run but I think this is the current count of preferred options: Delete (3) / Keep (6) / Rename (9). Should I be putting in a request for the category to be renamed to Autism pseudoscience? JoBrodie (talk) 21:57, 28 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Shinty stadiums

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Shinty venues, without prejudice to a fresh nomination for renaming to Category:Shinty venues in Scotland as suggested later in the discussion. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 10:34, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Shinty stadiums to Category:Shinty venues
 * Nominator's rationale: Shinty is an amateur, community-based sport and the grounds are largely undeveloped fields, so "stadiums" seems an ill-fitting description. The change would give consistency with the parent category, Category:Sports venues in Scotland. Jellyman (talk) 17:51, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Few (if any) shinty grounds qualify as a stadium, i.e. a playing area partly or completely surrounded by a tiered structure . -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:17, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename and also add text that the category is for articles about venues that are specifically for shinty (Old Anniesland, multipurpose venues, parks etc should not be categorized for every activity that takes place there). Also, it might be better to rename to "... in Scotland" (in case there are ever any elsewhere as it's under an in-Scotland parent). DexDor(talk) 07:18, 12 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Bridges by city
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2019 April 8%23Bridges by city

Churches by city (United States)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge all per nom, and per other recent similar CfDs. ~ Rob 13 Talk 03:29, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Camden, New Jersey to Category:Buildings and structures in Camden, New Jersey and Category:Churches in Camden County, New Jersey
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Chicopee, Massachusetts to Category:Buildings and structures in Chicopee, Massachusetts and Category:Churches in Hampden County, Massachusetts
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Covington, Kentucky to Category:Buildings and structures in Covington, Kentucky and Category:Churches in Kenton County, Kentucky
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Danbury, Connecticut to Category:Buildings and structures in Danbury, Connecticut and Category:Churches in Fairfield County, Connecticut
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Fairfield, Connecticut to Category:Buildings and structures in Fairfield, Connecticut and Category:Churches in Fairfield County, Connecticut


 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Harrisonburg, Virginia to Category:Buildings and structures in Harrisonburg, Virginia and Category:Churches in Virginia
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Kansas City, Kansas to Category:Buildings and structures in Kansas City, Kansas and Category:Churches in Wyandotte County, Kansas
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Lake Charles, Louisiana to Category:Buildings and structures in Lake Charles, Louisiana and Category:Churches in Calcasieu Parish, Louisiana
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Lewiston, Maine to Category:Buildings and structures in Lewiston, Maine and Category:Religion in Lewiston, Maine and Category:Churches in Androscoggin County, Maine
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Manchester, New Hampshire to Category:Buildings and structures in Manchester, New Hampshire and Category:Churches in Hillsborough County, New Hampshire
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Norwalk, Connecticut to Category:Buildings and structures in Norwalk, Connecticut and Category:Churches in Fairfield County, Connecticut
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Perryville, Missouri to Category:Buildings and structures in Perryville, Missouri and Category:Churches in Perry County, Missouri
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Santa Fe, New Mexico to Category:Buildings and structures in Santa Fe, New Mexico and Category:Churches in Santa Fe County, New Mexico
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Spokane, Washington to Category:Buildings and structures in Spokane, Washington and Category:Churches in Spokane County, Washington
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Springfield, Virginia to Category:Springfield, Virginia and Category:Churches in Fairfax County, Virginia
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Trumbull, Connecticut to Category:Buildings and structures in Trumbull, Connecticut and Category:Churches in Fairfield County, Connecticut
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Union, Kentucky to Category:Union, Kentucky and Category:Churches in Boone County, Kentucky
 * Propose merging Category:Churches in Virginia Beach, Virginia to Category:Buildings and structures in Virginia Beach, Virginia and Category:Churches in Hampton Roads, Virginia


 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, the above categories only contain 1 article and/or 1 subcategory. See also this earlier nomination which is still open. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:06, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. WP:SMALLCAT does not apply to all categories which are currently small.  It is for cats which "by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme".
 * The nom offers no explanation of why there there might not be more notable churches in these cities. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:26, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * WP:SMALLCAT provides two contradictory criteria, in the second line it says "no realistic potential for growth" which is in my view considerably more relaxing than "by their very definition". The "by their very definition" clause can nearly always be appealed to and if we would literally stick to it it would in practice imply that we would abolish WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:08, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * @Marcocapelle: are you saying that you have actually made an assessment of the "realistic potential for growth" of each of the nominated categories?
 * If you had done so, I would have expected such research to be mentioned in the nomination, rather than simply citing current size. But if you have done such an assessment, maybe you could explain how it was done. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:44, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * If these would have been big cities with few churches there would a case in expecting growth potential. But all of the above contain medium-size cities and many cities of a similar size do not have their own churches category, e.g. Category:Buildings and structures in Dothan, Alabama. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:20, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I took sampled the first category in this list, Category:Churches in Camden, New Jersey. That's a city of 77,000 people, and a quick google threw up a list of 27 churches at http://www.churches-in.com/new+jersey/Camden/.  Even if only half of these churches are notable, that's still a thoroughly viable category.
 * Sorry, @Marcocapelle, but I don't believe that you actually made any meaningful evaluation of the potential for growth. It seems to me to be v clear that your selection was indeed based on the rationale in your nomination, viz the current size of the category. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:36, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * What data supports your belief that half of these churches may be notable? Marcocapelle (talk) 08:11, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Two factors: a) New England has a quality local newspapers; b) in a society with high levels of church-going, local papers are likely to give significant coverage to churches.
 * But note that the onus is on the nominator to offer evidence in support of their proposal. You nominated 18 categories without a valid rationale, then switched post-facto to a different rationale ("no realistic potential for growth") for which you have offered zero evidence. You have made a wholly unevidenced proposition and are now demanding that others have watertight evidence to counter that.  -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:55, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Clifton, New Jersey and Brick Township, New Jersey are of similar size and they are also in New Jersey, so these two factors could equally apply to those cities, but neither Category:Churches in Clifton, New Jersey nor Category:Churches in Brick Township, New Jersey exist. This looks to me as a mere case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:16, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Again, Marcocapelle, you offer no evidence, no attempt to research the actual number of churches in these hypothetical comparators ... but I'm the one being accsued of WP:ILIKEIT? Wow! -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. No evidence has been adduced that the nominated towns contain numbers of notable churches that are not in the nominated categories. In the absence of such evidence, it's safe to say that no such articles exist. Instead, the nominator has been invited to engage in crystal ball gazing. That is not the job of the nominator. A lot of speculative evidence has been presented as to why future articles on churches in these towns might be created at some future date. This is not evidence, it is just WP:Synthesis and should be ignored. Let's just deal with the facts in front of please. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:32, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 * In this case the facts in front of us are the nominator made this nomination on the basis of a misrepresentation of a long-established guideline, and subsequently changed his position to one for which he has offered no evidence.
 * The test per WP:SMALLCAT is not whether the articles currently exist; it is whether "by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme".
 * The onus is on the nominator to provide the evidence in support of their proposed change: in this case, that would be evidence that there are unlikely to be more notable churches.
 * No such evidence has been provided ... and it is not the responsibility of others to do the homework which the nominator has chosen not to do.
 * It takes only a few moments to chuck a list of categories at CFD, but he assessment can take a lot longer. It is completely unreasonable to expect others to put in the research time which the nominator. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 * "misrepresentation"? What happened to good Faith? Shame on BHG. Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Support "The onus is on the nominator to provide the evidence in support of their proposed change." I respectfully disagree on the burden here: categories are created all the time by well-intentioned editors who provide no evidence in support of their new category. The categories nominated here don't seem to aid navigation now and don't seem likely to in the foreseeable future from my perspective. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:00, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose - all these categories contain a large category within them, so working as container categories these work just fine. As BorwnHairedGirl mentioned above the usage of WP:SMALLCAT is not really applicable here. Inter&#38;anthro (talk) 19:00, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Upmerge The first two categories for example only contain 3 entries each. The vast majority of church buildings are not notable, so it is unlikely we will see growth of these categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:49, 6 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Space program(me) of Malaysia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus per the larger issues in this category scheme. See the exchange involving Nyttend/Grutness below. ~ Rob 13 Talk 03:40, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Space program of Malaysia to Category:Space programme of Malaysia
 * Nominator's rationale: We appear to have both and . One of them is clearly a duplicate. My gut feeling is that the British spelling will be correct for Malaysia (i.e., keep "programme", and soft redirect "program"), but I bow to any advice from Malaysian editors. Grutness...  wha?   09:31, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Reverse merge - there is Angkasawan program and Category:Space program of Malaysia predates Category:Space programme of Malaysia by many years. Oculi (talk) 10:23, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge to British spelling. The English version of the official website, here, uses "Programme"
 * http://www.angkasa.gov.my/ uses 'program'. It uses 'programme' if one uses the UK Eng translator. Oculi (talk) 20:16, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * On that webpage, "program" is the Malay word. Translated to English, that word is "programme."  UnitedStatesian (talk) 21:00, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * By that logic, Oculi, we should also change the equivalent categories for all French-speaking countries to "programme". Grutness... wha?   00:25, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * FWIW, Malaysian news agencies tend to use the British spelling, as shown here, here, and here. Grutness... wha?   02:01, 7 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Space program of Ireland

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) . Marcocapelle (talk) 10:48, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Space program of Ireland to Category:Space programme of Ireland
 * Nominator's rationale: Identical rationale to the South African category below. Grutness... wha?   09:27, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. https://www.eirsat1.ie/ uses programme in the first para. Oculi (talk) 10:27, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 00:54, 7 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Space program of South Africa

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus per the larger issues in this category scheme. See the exchange involving Nyttend/Grutness below. ~ Rob 13 Talk 03:40, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Space program of South Africa to Category:Space programme of South Africa
 * Nominator's rationale: South Africa uses Commonwealth English, and the South African government, the South African Agency for Science and Technology Advancement, the Aeronautical Society of South Africa, and the South African National Space Agency all use the spelling "programme". Grutness... wha?   09:25, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Oculi (talk) 17:52, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 00:55, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename to "South African space programme" per . PrussianOwl (talk) 19:33, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. All the national space program(me) articles that I can find are using the convention "DESCRIPTION space program".  Unless there are a good number of articles I've not found, it's time to nominate the entire category tree for renaming.  When that comes, of course this should use "programme", but it should be "South African space programme", not "Space programme of South Africa".  Until then, keep it here, because it's not good to rename a page twice in short succession.  Nyttend (talk) 12:09, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * You are right I've gone through all the categories and the articles support "Fooian X" by a factor of 7 to 2 (7 to 3 if you include one redirect). I'd suggest renaming those two articles and doing a group nomination. One you've done that, I'll close the current discussions (please ping me when the group nom is done). Grutness...  wha?   02:23, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Pinging the both of you. What's the progress on this? ~ Rob 13 Talk 01:49, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Still waiting for the group nom from Nyttend. Grutness... wha?   02:22, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
 * In real life, I have a ton going on (even on-wiki, I have a backlog dating to September) and haven't really the opportunity, especially as I wasn't expecting to do the renominating. Nyttend (talk) 03:13, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I have some time to work on this today, so I went to make a request, and it occurred to me that such a nomination would be out of place when this one's and the Malaysian one are still open. For future reference, don't volunteer people; it's a good way to get a "no way" response.  Nyttend backup (talk) 23:33, 1 March 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Articles created via the Article Wizard

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 13:37, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting articles created via the article wizard


 * Nominator's rationale: Delete, along with all the subcatgories. 2nd nomination, but I think after nearly five years it is time to revisit this category. What good does it do to have over 41 thousand pages (and not just Articles; this cat. is a misnomer, as pages from the Draft, User, User Talk, etc. spaces get included) sitting in this category, and many more into its sub categories? What does it matter where an article came from? The previous discussion is at Categories for discussion/Log/2014 February 4; as one editor pointed out there, once the Draft namespace is up and running, this category would not be necessary.  That time has come.  Related categories Category:Unreviewed new articles created via the Article Wizard and Category:Unreviewed new articles ceased being populated (via template) and thus were deleted back in November. UnitedStatesian (talk) 06:00, 6 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete. Neither the previous CFD discussion nor a review of inlinks to the category (example) have revealed any use of the category. DexDor(talk) 10:51, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. The purpose of a category is either 1) to create a navigation hierarchy of page topics, enabling readers to find related pages (e.g. Category:Players of American football from California) or 2) to group together pages with similar issues (e.g. Category:Articles with too few wikilinks). This category serves neither purpose. — python coder   (talk &#124; contribs) 19:20, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Not sure what purpose this category serves and its relation to the article becomes more distant with each and every edit to that article.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 19:27, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete thoroughly useless in article space (the only use I see is that there are a lot of low-quality stubs that might be deletable); there might be a reason for it on userspace pages but I don't see one immediately; we can simply track usage of the Userspace draft template. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 23:56, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. VegaDark (talk) 07:20, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Almost completely useless Abote2 (talk) 11:03, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete No longer useful. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 17:53, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. PrussianOwl (talk) 19:33, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete serves no real use that I can see. – Brandon XLF   (t@lk)  04:41, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete useless. Personally, I would end marking pages as AfC submissions as well, but that's outside the scope of this discussion. <b style="color: White">b</b><b style="color: White">ui</b><b style="color: White">dhe</b> (formerly Catrìona) 08:07, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete - unnecesary, as the Article namespace is distinct enough as is. Kirbanzo (talk) 16:00, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note for closing admin Assuming this closes as delete as it is looking like it will, I will reach out to the Article Wizard team to make sure they make the necessary code changes to stop the addition of this cat to NEW page creations; while this is in flux we may go through some understandable subsequent cycles of recreation/speedy deletion of the cat unless an admin. determines salting is a better technical solution. UnitedStatesian (talk) 03:48, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Please talk to the AW team. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Od Mishehu (talk • contribs) 13:37, 13 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.