Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 April 25



Category:Eastern Catholicism in Georgia (country)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge the first two, which for the record only contain Ordinariate for Catholics of Armenian Rite in Eastern Europe and Category:Georgian Byzantine-Rite Catholics as well as the sub-cats listed here; rename the third to Category:Catholic priests from Georgia (country). – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:07, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Eastern Catholicism in Georgia (country) to Category:Catholicism in Georgia (country)
 * Propose merging Category:Georgian Eastern Catholics to Category:Catholicism in Georgia (country)
 * Propose merging Category:Georgian Eastern Catholic priests to Category:Georgian Roman Catholic priests
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, there has never been an Eastern Catholic Church in Georgia, see Eastern_Catholic_Churches. This is about a meanwhile extinct group of Georgian Byzantine-Rite Catholics who unfortunately have not received recognition while they still existed. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:56, 17 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Support -- This is far too small a denomination to need multiple categories. In the third case, I would suggest that the target for subject and object should be merge to Category:Georgian Catholic priests.  I would suggest that in this case "(country)" is not needed since the US State will be "Catholic priests from Georgia (state)".  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:18, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose merging to a "Roman Catholic" category as these are understood to be Latin Church members. Elizium23 (talk) 14:44, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, while technically both priests still were part of the Latin Church (afaics they never formally abandoned it) I can understand the opposition. Peterkingiron's suggestion is a good one, to rename Category:Georgian Eastern Catholic priests to Category:Georgian Catholic priests and to add Category:Georgian Roman Catholic priests as a subcategory of the new Category:Georgian Catholic priests. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:27, 19 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose any use of Georgian, as the people category is Category:People from Georgia (country) (after Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_March_10). Oculi (talk) 20:50, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * So the new category name would become Category:Catholic priests from Georgia (country). That is reasonable too. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose - there is a well-established category tree for Eastern Catholicism, which is significantly different from Latin Catholicism to be organized in specific categories even when the numbers are small, as is the case with Georgia. Especially, a renaming or merge to anything that uses  Roman Catholic would be erroneous, as Eastern Catholics, (in this case Greek-Catholics) are not Roman Catholics and cannot be called that. I'm open to find a way to rationalize these categories a bit though, maybe using terms like "Greek Catholics" which are more precise, and along with Category:Georgian Byzantine-Rite Catholics which is currently nominated for speedy renaming to something different, all after a RM which failed to find consensus. Place Clichy (talk) 01:50, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Clarification please The nom has agreed to a number of suggestions. Are these incorporated into the current nomination? If not, what is the current state of the proposal? Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:08, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The status is that the nomination of the third category is opposed for two different reasons and I am trying to get consensus in favour of ALT2 which is Category:Catholic priests from Georgia (country). Marcocapelle (talk) 03:49, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buidhe 23:34, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Support 1, 2, & ALT 2 per clarification above. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:32, 27 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Palauan male weightlifters

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy keep . Nomination withdrawn (non-admin closure)  Kori  ( @ ) 01:13, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting


 * Nominator's rationale: Only one article in this category. The category was possibly only created for Stevick Patris. Kori  ( @ ) 18:07, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep - Category:Male weightlifters is a container category, subcatted by nationality. Oculi (talk) 22:53, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Weak keep per Oculi. Most Palauan sports categories are similar - it's a small place, but sport by nation is a recognised tree that allow for small cat is cases like this. Grutness... wha?   04:46, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Part of the country/gender breakdown of each sport. There are many other examples of this across other sports.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 07:21, 26 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Thiruvalla area

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Villages in Thiruvalla taluk. There's a sense in the discussion that taluk-level categorization may be useful in this situation, which is not unheard of (although as a side note the cat names regarding taluks lack standardization and probably merit further discussion).  bibliomaniac  1  5  06:03, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Thiruvalla area to Category:Villages in Pathanamthitta district
 * Nominator's rationale: Propose to upmerge to Category:Villages in Pathanamthitta district. Another option is to rename this as Category:Villages in Thiruvalla taluk which better reflects the category's current content. It's not very common to have such categories at the taluk level but it's not unheard of (I found half a dozen) Pichpich (talk) 20:03, 6 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge, since the parent category has not been diffused by other sub-districts. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:04, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't Merge Indian districts are not like city districts of Europe. They are vast areas that includes several millions of people and half a dozen thickly populated towns alongwith with numerous villages. Taluk level categorization is essential in the Indian scenario. --Prof TPMS (talk) 08:19, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The actual situation does not reflect this sense of essentialness: if it would be essential, Category:Villages in Pathanamthitta district would have been diffused by other sub-districts. But it isn't. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:42, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Want to see more discussion comparing the merits of merging to either the main nom or the alt nom.
 * Rename per alternative stated in nomination.– Fayenatic  L ondon 13:06, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  bibliomaniac 1  5  17:33, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Computer_programmers_who_committed_suicide

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep.  bibliomaniac  1  5  07:14, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Computer_programmers_who_committed_suicide to Category:Computer_programmers_who_died_by_suicide
 * Nominator's rationale: rename to use less stigmatising language (i.e., not committed). Note this actually applies to all subcats within Category:Suicides by occupation but I don't know/see a way to address that so I thought I'd try by kicking off the discussion with one here. The use of the term "committed" is explicitly discouraged by groups working with suicides: example links to explicit advice to media here: (UK) Samaritans, (US) suicide.org & NAMI Beholderstories (talk) 16:52, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment - You might also wanna rename Category:Clowns who committed suicide. Kori  ( @ ) 18:36, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Procedural oppose, the whole tree of Category:Suicides by occupation uses the word "committed", it is not consistent to make this change for one occupation only. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:47, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes I agree (it's what it says in my comment up there). I don't think I have the wikichops to change all the subcats, was hoping a more expert editor might suggest the correct approach. Beholderstories (talk) 20:19, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose The category tree uses "commited" because that is the common expression in English. Recent attempts at changing English to reflect modern sensibilities have not had success. Dimadick (talk) 21:44, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Citation please? Because I think you're mistaken: e.g. (i) Since 2015 the Associated Press style guide has recommended not using the term "committed suicide" (direct quotes excepted, of course). (ii) coarse Google ngram analysis die by suicide (looks like a 300% increase since the 1970s) compared with commit suicide (peaked in 2000, now in decline). And Wikipedia's style guide has plenty examples of preferring good English over common English. Uh... wait... so maybe that's where I should be doing this, not in the category CfD? Beholderstories (talk) 14:59, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Link to a 2018 discussion: Categories_for_discussion/Log/2018_June_10. DexDor(talk) 15:23, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, thank you; I hadn't seen that. Beholderstories (talk) 20:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep committed is well understood and is the common expression. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 00:03, 28 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Nabobs from Devon

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Articles have been manually categorized.  bibliomaniac  1  5  00:21, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting nabobs from devon


 * Nominator's rationale: This has 3 articles about Category:British East India Company people who came from Devon. There isnt a parent Category:Nabobs  nor any other categorisation of East India Company people by geographical origin.  I think if we wanted to keep this we would need both. Rathfelder (talk) 14:07, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Upmerge to the 2 parent categories. The nom as it stands, despite regular reminders to Rathfelder on exactly this issue, takes Aaron Baker out of Category:British East India Company people and Category:People from Devon. Oculi (talk) 14:49, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Any more personal attacks and I will be making a formal complaint. Rathfelder (talk) 16:22, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * You said: "If you think something I've done is wrong please tell me at the time." Reminding you to upmerge rather than delete is not a personal attack. I could also remind you to indent properly. Oculi (talk) 16:46, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Or perhaps there is a particular reason to propose deletion instead of merge? If so, please explain. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:40, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * As there are only 3 articles I've put them in more exact categories already. Rathfelder (talk) 12:13, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I see what you mean. Aaron Baker is already in Category:People from Exeter and Category:Presidents of Madras; Sir John Kennaway, 1st Baronet is already in Category:People from East Devon District and Category:British East India Company military personnel; Sir Robert Palk, 1st Baronet is already in Category:People from Ashburton, Devon and Category:British East India Company people. In that case delete is the correct action. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:40, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Upmerge -- For information "nabob" is an anglicisation of nawab and refers to people who became fabulously rich in the East India trade, usually through dealings in their own names, while officers of Honourable East India Company in India. The degree of riches necessary is probably a subjective issue.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:07, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * There doesnt seem to be any suggestion that these people were unusually rich. Rathfelder (talk) 12:13, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Dual Upmerge No idea what's going on in this discussion but the category should go and this is the right solution. RevelationDirect (talk) 11:10, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Updated to reflect that the articles have already been manually placed in appropriate cats. RevelationDirect (talk)
 * Propose retain Category:British East India Company people will include people who did not use their positions to make huge fortunes, for example clerks living modest lifestyles, thus not Nabobs. WP has an article on Nabob: "a conspicuously wealthy man deriving his fortune in the east, especially in India during the 18th century with the privately held East India Company" - often through personal entrepreneurship. I don't think we need a £sd wealth test to define membership of the category. If you want I will create a parent category Category:Nabobs from England, a member of Category:British East India Company people. Note that we already have a category Category:English billionaires, fairly vague, but possibly the modern equivalent of Category:Nabobs from England.Lobsterthermidor (talk) 18:42, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * That would require a definition of a Nabob. And I doubt if we have many articles about humble clerks. But regardless of such a proposal there are not enough articles about British East India Company people to divide them by county. Rathfelder (talk) 21:16, 5 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Catholic priests of Elizabethan Ireland

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge Timrollpickering (talk) 11:50, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Catholic priests of Elizabethan Ireland to Category:Irish Roman Catholic priests, Category:16th-century Roman Catholic priests and Category:People of Elizabethan Ireland
 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge, narrow intersection of denomination, occupation, country and a half century. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:50, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * And only 2 of them. Rathfelder (talk) 14:08, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment -- Are you sure this cannot be better populated? Peterkingiron (talk) 17:08, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It is quite likely it can be better populated but that is not the point of the nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:42, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Fivefold intersections? Madness. Plus not all parts of Ireland were under the control of the Crown, so priests in Ulster might have regarded themselves as Irish, not Elizabethan Irish. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:46, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 13:05, 29 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Frankish kings of Burgundy
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 6%23Category:Frankish kings of Burgundy

Category:Women cannabis traffickers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Delete Timrollpickering (talk) 11:49, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting women cannabis traffickers


 * Nominator's rationale: Small category, not useful for navigation after deletion of other parent, see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_April_10. The member page is already within the parent category hierarchy by nationality. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:40, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:58, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom; and 'taffickers' has an implication of the illegal. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 00:05, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete This has one entry, Schapelle Corby, and she is actually innocent. Totally unnecessary page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:2D03:900:ADEA:E397:EF2D:2981 (talk) 10:10, 28 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Illegitimate children of Bosnian monarchs
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 15:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting illegitimate children of bosnian monarchs


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT, especially since the Kingdom of Bosnia ceased to exist in 1463 and the current country is a republic. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 02:04, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment - I'm not sure SMALLCAT applies as this is one of many subcats of Category:Illegitimate children of monarchs. If deleted, the articles should be moved to that category (note: both articles are already in Category:Bosnian monarchs). DexDor(talk) 13:28, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete -- This is unnecessary since both became kings themselves. I wonder if the illegitimacy is not the result of applying a stricter view of marriage than was in vogue in Bosnia at the time.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:14, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Illegitimate children of Belgian monarchs
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete/upmerge.  bibliomaniac  1  5  00:16, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting illegitimate children of belgian monarchs


 * Nominator's rationale: Small category with only one established member, Delphine Boël. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 02:01, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Upmerge to the Illegitimate... category as per above CFD. DexDor(talk) 13:30, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Giro d'Italia and Tour de France winners in the same years
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge Timrollpickering (talk) 11:50, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose Dual Upmerging Category:Giro d'Italia and Tour de France winners in the same year to Category:Giro d'Italia winners and Category:Tour de France winners
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:TRIVIALCAT)
 * This category is for world class cyclists who won both the Giro d'Italia and the much more prominent Tour de France in the same year. In a different sport, winning the Triple Crown is collectively defining. I don't think this particular combination is a "thing" though. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:52, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Support, it is a bit of a thing, but not to the extent that a whole article would be created about it similar to Triple Crown. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:13, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Support per nom.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 11:17, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. I would have said Listify as the Tour, Giro & Vuelta are definitely held in similar high regard as many other Grand Slam-type sports trophies where I live, but this information is already present with much more detail at . Place Clichy (talk) 17:30, 29 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Prix d'Europe winners
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 12:29, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Prix d'Europe winners
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)
 * Each year, the Prix d'Europe scholarship sends 1 or 2 students from Quebec to study music in Europe. Given the later prominence of many of these musicians, this investment appears to be money well spent for the province! Within the articles though, it doesn't seem defining and usually gets a passing reference in the education section. And these articles are generally already in the alumni category for whichever conservatory/college this scholarship paid for. The contents are already listified here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:52, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * *RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 03:40, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:33, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Support -- I am sure there are ample precedents for deleting such scholarship award categories. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:10, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Support - None of the articles deserve any specific categories directly from Prix d'Europe. Kori  ( @ ) 18:38, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.