Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 April 3



Category:Culture of Antarctica

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 23:57, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Culture of Antarctica to Category:Antarctic culture
 * Nominator's rationale: These are the same category, just with different formatting/wording. "Antarctic culture" matches the format of the other continents listed in Category:Culture by continent. Jmertel23 (talk) 22:24, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Support merge in principle, but taking in mind the content of this one article, Category:Books about Antarctica is probably a better merge target. O wait, the article is already in that category, so then Category:Culture of Antarctica can simply be deleted. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:27, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
 * In practice Delete -- Only article in subject is already in the target. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Pollinator decline pesticides

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  bibliomaniac  1  5  21:39, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Pollinator decline pesticides to Category:Pesticides implicated in pollinator decline
 * Nominator's rationale: Grammatically awkward. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 21:42, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 09:05, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining (e.g. for Nicotine or Spinosad) - possibly listify (e.g. to Pollinator_decline). DexDor(talk) 12:44, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete subjective category; by whom was something implicated and why would that be defining. If this is kept, we ought to re-think the whole disease tree to figure out which Humor is out of what rather than ascribe diseases to things we cannot see. :P Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:36, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Relisting comment, rename or delete? Marcocapelle (talk) 09:05, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If kept, it should be Category:Pesticides accused of pollinator decline as this is a controversial topic. There is no libel issue as a pesticide cannot sue, but there is still a NPOV issue.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Who is doing the accusing and when? This, like all categories, is meant to be permanent, so even assuming we can agree on whose accusation merits inclusion, once the accusation is refuted (assuming it is retracted by all accusers), the chemical remains in this category. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:26, 6 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Order of Stara Planina

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 16:47, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Order of Stara Planina to Category:Orders, decorations, and medals of Bulgaria
 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge, unnecessary category layer with just a single subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:36, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge Doesn't aid navigation. RevelationDirect (talk) 00:57, 5 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Less than n pages

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: already deleted per WP:G7 (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:13, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming:
 * Category:Template Category TOC on category with less than 100 pages to Category:Template Category TOC on category with fewer than 100 pages
 * Category:Template Large category TOC on category with less than 200 pages to Category:Template Large category TOC on category with fewer than 200 pages
 * Category:Template Large category TOC on category with less than 1200 pages to Category:Template Large category TOC on category with fewer than 1200 pages
 * Nominator's rationale: Grammar. Opera hat (talk) 02:57, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

But (big "but") ... these are not reader-facing categories. They are tracking categories used for a maintenance task, i.e. identifying categories where Category TOC should be replaced with CatAutoTOC. That task is underway. And as tracking categories, they are hidden from ordinary readers, and even from editors unless they have gone to Special:Preferences and enabled "show hidden categories". So they are visible to only a tiny minority of users, and of interest only to a tiny minority of that tiny minority: those who are engaged in the cleanup, which I think is only me. There is little or no benefit to anyone in polishing the labelling of maintenance tools. The reason I didn't rename these categories myself when I spotted my grammatical error (the day after creating the fist one) is that if I edited the templates to fix the grammar, it would take up to a week for the changes to propagate ... thereby disrupting the cleanup work for which they were created. So that would be self-defeating. So, Opera hat, Grutness, and Captainllama ... please would you all just leave these be, so that I can continue with my work? Or at the very least hold off any renaming of the toolbox until the toolbox is no longer in use? That will be when the categories are empty, in a few weeks. -- Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 15:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Support. Grutness... wha?   03:10, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Support - this does seem to be correct. 'Fewer' appears to apply when integers are involved, as they are here; there cannot be 99.5 pages. Oculi (talk) 08:45, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Support Like much people I have many support for this. Captainllama (talk) 12:51, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose as creator. Yes, Opera hat, you are correct about the grammar. I goofed when creating these.
 * Perfectly happy to hold off, although not specifically asked. Oculi (talk) 15:31, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks,, and sorry for overlooking you in my list of pings. -- Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 15:51, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Sigh, okay :) . If they'll be gone soon anyway there doesn't seem to be much point in changing them. Grutness... wha?   15:32, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, keep up the good work BHG, just don't forget to shoot your little helpers in the head when done. ;) Thanks for all you do Captainllama (talk) 22:27, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Withdraw nomination. Opera hat (talk) 12:29, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, @Opera hat. -- Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 12:58, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Update. I have restructured the tracking categories, and these categories are no longer in use.  I have tagged them for speedy deletion as soon as they are, which shoukd be in a day or two, when the templates finish purging.
 * The new categories all avoid that grammatical faux-pas, and are listed here:
 * -- Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 05:03, 7 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hospitals in Hudson County, New Jersey

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: 'no consensus. As a general point about conduct of CFD, I find no fault in the creation of well-populated siblings during the discussion, but it should be accepted that such new categories could be brought into the action arising if there is a consensus to rename/merge/delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:13, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting hospitals in hudson county, new jersey


 * Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary category since list of hospitals is not split by county in parent Category:Hospitals in New Jersey. I don't see why only Hudson County had entries. Tinton5 (talk) 02:15, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Two comments, some hospitals in US state categories are diffused by county, others are not, it has not been done consistently. Second, I suppose the proposal is to merge rather than to delete. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:59, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose It is not unnecessary because other NJ counties don't have categories; other counties could & should.Djflem (talk) 07:13, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Support - upmerge to parents. This was created in 2014, so there is clearly no enthusiasm for a 'by county' scheme for New Jersey. Oculi (talk) 08:41, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Category:Hospitals in Middlesex County, New Jersey now exists, more to come.Djflem (talk) 08:53, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I would request that you hold off until we reach a consensus here. RevelationDirect (talk) 10:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Djflem created the one under discussion and supplied no siblings for 6 years. Springing into action now is too late. Oculi (talk) 11:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose Categories by county exist for Bergen (with 9 entries), Essex (7), Hudson (10), Middlesex (6) and Monmouth (6), with the potential to create several more such well-populated county categories. If the objection is that "there is clearly no enthusiasm for a 'by county' scheme for New Jersey" then we have seen that enthusiasm. If the issue is that the parent hadn't been split by county, why should anyone "request that you hold off until we reach a consensus here" if creating the other county categories addresses the issue raised in the nomination? Alansohn (talk) 14:48, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment I don't have an opinion on categories for these counties with large populations. I do want to say out loud though that there is no consensus that every county in NJ should have a category as "part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme" exception under WP:SMALLCAT. RevelationDirect (talk) 11:15, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Support deletion: It would be more useful to modify the List of hospitals in New Jersey page to create the list of hospitals in a table with city and county columns.   This method is supported by the WikiProject Hospitals methodology, i.e. first start with a list of all hospitals with city, county, name, and references; then, link to notable hospitals.    13:27, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment:NOTDUP clearly states that "it is neither improper nor uncommon to simultaneously have a category, a list, and a navigation template which all cover the same topic. These systems of organizing information are considered to be complementary... (not inappropriately duplicative.  Furthermore, arguing that a category duplicates a list (or vice versa) at a deletion discussion is not a valid reason for deletion and should be avoided".) In other words, the suggestion to clean up and organize the list is great, but not a reason to delete categories.Djflem (talk) 14:58, 9 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment -- I understand the population of US counties to vary greatly. The common policy is to delete (or rather upmerge) categories with less than 5 members.  That should be applied.  All those NJ county categories created so far meet that criterion, but that does not mean we should allow a category for a county with 1 or two hospitals.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Slovenian Hockey Hall of Fame inductees

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 23:54, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Slovenian Hockey Hall of Fame inductees
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD and WP:OCASSOC)
 * A large majority of the biography articles in this category don't mention the Slovenian Hockey Hall of Fame at all, the rest mention it in passing with other awards. While this is not officially an Olympic hall of fame, it sure looks like on in practice: 28 of the 33 articles are in some combination of Category:Olympic ice hockey players of Yugoslavia, Category:Olympic ice hockey players of Slovenia and Category:Olympic officials. (The other 5 are in Category:HDD Olimpija Ljubljana players.) While being in the Olympics is certainly defining for athletes, getting an award later for that same participation is not. The contents of the category are already listified here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Background We previously deleted other Olympic-focused hall of fame categories here and here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per guideline, per nom and per precedent. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per OCAWARD. We have kept hall of fame categories only where there is a physical museum.  Probably no need to listify as main article had a list.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:40, 5 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:National High School Hall of Fame inductees

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 23:55, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:National High School Hall of Fame inductees
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD and WP:OCASSOC)
 * The American National High School Hall of Fame primarily recognizes high school athletes, but also high school coaches. Not a single one of these athletes have a Wikipedia article because of their high school career; rather these athletes became notable later because of success in college, Olympic or professional sports. Since their high school athletic career was not defining, it's hard to imagine an award they received for it is. (The high school coaches generally are notable as high school coaches but are already well categorized under Category:High school athletic coaches in the United States.) The contents of the category are already listified here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per guideline and per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:01, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per OCAWARD. We have kept hall of fame categories only where there is a physical museum.  Probably no need to listify as main article had a list.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:41, 5 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.