Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 August 5



Category:Bunkface
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 August 15%23Category:Bunkface

Category:UK MPs 1832–1835

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep.  bibliomaniac  1  5  02:26, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:UK MPs 1832–1835 to Category:UK MPs 1832–1834
 * Nominator's rationale: The category tree for UK MPs divides them by Parliament. The dates given are from the election until the Parliament is dissolved, when everyone ceases to be an MP and is re-elected (or not, as the case may be).
 * In this case, however, Parliament was dissolved on December 29 1834, and the first polling in the 1835 United Kingdom general election was on 6 January 1835. This parliament should thus be correctly dated 1832-34, rather than 1832-35; strictly speaking, no-one remained an MP into 1835 from that term.
 * This is consistent with how the History of Parliament handles it; they list MPs who stood down at this election as serving until "1834", rather than "1835" (see eg here or here.) As far as I am aware this is the only modern election where the dissolution and election fell in different years, so no other category needs changed to align with this Andrew Gray (talk) 21:54, 5 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Support To reflect the dissolution of the Parliament in 1834. Dimadick (talk) 11:38, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Only those already deeply immersed in the history of the UK House of Commons will be aware  that the dissolution was two days before the start of 1835.  To them, this will make sense .... but to others it will be a source of puzzlement  as they wonder why there appears to have been a gap.  They will be asking whether this was like the medieval or early modern eras, when there sometimes many years with no parliament called.  That puzzlement may lead them to details outlined above ... but that is not what categories are for.
 * Per WP:CATP, the primary purpose of categories is navigation. But this piece of well-intentioned pedantry will impede navigation by adding a surprise factor which distracts from the prime purpose. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 22:11, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I do not think we should not deliberately keep a mistake just because the actual date distracts. If people are curious why there is a gap they should read the main article. Wikipedia is for reading articles, after all. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:04, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * @Marcocapelle, it's not a mistake. It's a different way of looking at the same facts. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 11:48, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I think this one goes both ways - I nominated it because I got a bit confused as to why the category didn't seem to reconcile with the sources, and thought it would be a good idea to avoid that confusion in future. I guess whichever approach we use some small fraction of readers will be puzzled/surprised! Andrew Gray (talk) 22:08, 8 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose.  What I mean is to remain consistent between the Category name and the practice in Article space.  Wikipedia is for reading articles, after all, not categories.   The practice for individual MP articles is that the MP's period of office is treated as ending on the day of the succeeding general election.  That has been debated several times and confirmed as being the sensible choice.  The only special feature about this category is that the year change took place in the dissolution.  It would be sensible to add an explanation to the introductory text on the category page which currently reads
 * Members of Parliament (MPs) of the House of Commons of the United Kingdom, elected to the 11th Parliament of the United Kingdom (1832–1835) This includes MPs elected in the 1832 United Kingdom general election and those subsequently elected in by-elections.
 * to add a sentence saying This Parliament was dissolved in December 1834 in advance of the 1835 general election.  Sussexonian (talk) 16:13, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * what exact practice in article space should this be consistent with? I can't find an article with 1832–1834 or 1832–1835 in the name. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:17, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
 * See, for example the navbox at the foot of George Faithfull. Sussexonian (talk) 15:20, 14 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose per bhg. It's not like I'm going to disagree with bhg in this area! Johnbod (talk) 16:39, 14 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hubert Parry
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 August 15%23Category:Hubert Parry

Category:Jewish communities in Poland
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 August 15%23Category:Jewish communities in Poland

Category:German Jewish communities
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 August 15%23Category:German Jewish communities

Category:Vehicle manufacturers by country

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: not merged Pretty strong consensus not to downmerge, but future cases could be made to upmerge several of these categories.  bibliomaniac  1  5  02:53, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose merging
 * Category:Vehicle manufacturers of Algeria to Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of Algeria
 * Category:Vehicle manufacturers of Austria to Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of Austria
 * Category:Vehicle manufacturers of Germany to Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of Germany
 * Category:Vehicle manufacturers of Nigeria to Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of Nigeria
 * Category:Vehicle manufacturing companies of Russia to Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of Russia
 * Category:Vehicle manufacturers of Spain to Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of Spain
 * Category:Vehicle manufacturers of Ukraine to Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of Ukraine
 * Category:Vehicle manufacturers of the United States to Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of the United States
 * Category:Vehicle manufacturing companies based in Wisconsin to Category:Manufacturing companies based in Wisconsin and Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of the United States
 * Nominator's rationale: The proposal will bring these seven countries into line with the category: Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers by country which has 86 “by-country” categories. Hugo999 (talk) 02:13, 5 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose - it is unusual to propose a merge of a parent into a sub-category. A Motor vehicle is a vehicle but sea, air and rail vehicles are not motor vehicles. Clearly Category:Vehicle manufacturing companies by country has not been fully developed, and Category:Vehicle manufacturers of Germany (say) has not been fully populated, but a logically flawed merge is not the answer. Eg Category:Vehicle manufacturers of the United States does not merge at all satisfactorily into any of its 7 subcats. Oculi (talk) 02:30, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: I agree that some categories for the Ukraine and the United States should be merged into the main country category e.g. Category:Manufacturing companies of Ukraine (Aircraft, Shipbuilding categories) and likewise one of the German articles. But I do not see the need for the creation of 79 (86 minus 7) new categories for "Vehicle manufacturers by country". The British category Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of the United Kingdom (with a large number of subcategories) does not need a category :Category:Vehicle manufacturers of the United Kingdom  Hugo999 (talk) 03:08, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Upmerge rather than downmerge, e.g Category:Vehicle manufacturers of Algeria to Category:Manufacturing companies of Algeria. Agree with nom's line of thought, but downmerging leads to undesirable outcomes. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:02, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose! This is a strange proposal. It is wrong to merge/move, etc. super-categories to sub-categories just because the latter are more in number. By the way, these categories are 9 (not 7), additionally there are 6 categories by type of vehicle and country. --Elkost (talk) 07:38, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Motor vehicle manufacturers does not include ship builders, bicycle manufacturers, aircraft or railway engine builders.  Maybe we could devise a better scheme, but this proposal is a mistake.  Rathfelder (talk) 14:30, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I understand to streamline categorization intention, but how is not going to put some other categories that are not motor vehicles, per se, as Elkost mentioned? I am eager to change my vote with good explanation. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 22:57, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: Well the proposal could be regarded as upmerges rather than downmerges, eg :Category:Vehicle manufacturers of the United States to Category:Manufacturing companies of the United States rather than to Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of the United States, but either way some categories and articles will need to be moved down to "Motor vehicle manufacturers of …" or else up to "Manufacturing companies of … " But the “Motor vehicle manufacturers of ...” categories (with c93 countries) were created in 2006 whereas the countries in :Category:Vehicle manufacturing companies by country contains only nine countries (I have added the omitted category for Spain), and apart from the United States (2012) they were all created 2016 to 2020, and if this a "work in progress" it will not be finished very soon! The category "Motor vehicle manufacturers of …" seems a good name for a comprehensive category, with Aircraft, Shipbuilding, Rolling Stock and Cycle manufacturing companies as subcategories of “Manufacturing companies of … “ (while Cycles and Rolling Stock (some) are vehicles but not motor vehicles, I don’t think Aircraft and Ships are vehicles. ) Hugo999 (talk) 00:39, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * If only some categories and articles need to be moved down to "Motor vehicle manufacturers of …" or up to "Manufacturing companies of … " then just go ahead and move them. That does not require a merge proposal. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:16, 7 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose. A thoroughly ill-conceived proposal which would have no benefits and cause a mountain of problems. For example, Category:Aircraft manufacturers of Russia would become a subcat of Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of Russia, which is plain daft. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 03:10, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: I will withdraw the above proposals apart from that for :Category:Vehicle manufacturing companies of Russia to Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of Russia; which now contains only motor vehicle manufacturing companies, in line with the comments by Marcocapelle above. And also :Category:Vehicle manufacturing companies based in Wisconsin to Category:Manufacturing companies based in Wisconsin and Category:Motor vehicle manufacturers of the United States as it is an "orphan" category containing only two articles Hugo999 (talk) 23:29, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I suppose it's better to start a fresh discussion for them (also please propose upmerge rather than downmerge). Marcocapelle (talk) 17:33, 9 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:BBC television comedy

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep.  bibliomaniac  1  5  02:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:BBC television comedy to Category:BBC Television comedy shows
 * Nominator's rationale: "Television" refers to BBC Television. Some subcats would have to be renamed as well. Fuddle (talk) 21:47, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  bibliomaniac 1  5  00:06, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. BBC Television no longer exists, having been chopped up in 2016.  So the lowercase television is more accurate. ---  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 00:29, 5 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment, if kept the parent Category:BBC Television shows should probably be nominated for renaming the other way around. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:07, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to dive into this category as there are too many entries, but this category is for television shows produced by BBC Television. Any programs not produced by it shouldn't be there. Regardless if the studio is still operating or not, this category should exist. --Gonnym (talk) 11:07, 5 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.