Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 28



Category:American novelists of Indian descent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: do not merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:13, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:American novelists of Indian descent to Category:American writers of Indian descent
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT / Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_May_7. User:Namiba 22:03, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 04:40, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose Not so small anymore. Category has nine entries. If I or another editorwent through Category:American male writers of Indian descent some more, the current total of 9 could double or more....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 00:43, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment, we might discuss the whole tree of novelists by descent as a trivial intersection. It is not trivial when they write about their country of descent but we have other categories for that. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:45, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose No longer a small category, and there is scope for expansion. Dimadick (talk) 12:15, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Upmerge to Category:American writers of Indian descent and Category:American novelists of Asian descent. The fact that the non-diffusing sub-cat is bigger than the parent category is telling. We have no other comparable American novelists by x descent category to make this part of a pattern. The other novelists categories we have that use descent are Asian descent, Arab descent and Hispanic and Latino descent. We have no other such category that refers to ancestry in a specific country. I also question the ability to create a well sourced article American novelists of Indian descent that is more than just a list, which is one of the things needed to justify a category like this.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:03, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment This and screenwriters are the only diffusing sub-categories of Category:American writers of Indian descent.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:05, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep even though novelists specific sub-cats by nation are not common we do have Category:American short story writers of Chinese descent and Category:American journalists of Chinese descent. I actually suspect we should have Category:American novelists of Chinese descent, I am convinced that we could find enough reliable source material to create the article American novelists of Chinese descent. It also helps there that this category should have at least 19 articles in it (I strongly suspect even the tagged articles is more than that, closer to 29. OCERGS rules state that Category:American women novelists of Indian descent is a non-diffusing category of this, so every article should be in both categories. Failing to properly follow this rule is the reason people heaped abuse on me in the media in April of 2013.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:09, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment back in may there was a broader discussion that upmerged a bunch of similar categories including Caegory:American poets of Chinese descent, Category:American journalists of Indian descent, plus journalists of Pakistani, Korean, Filipino and Vietnamese descent, there were 29 categories impacted in all. We still do not have American novelists of Indian descent as an article, do we even have American writers of Indian descent as an article. OCERGS is just as much in play here are small cat rules. I could see an argument we should have Category:American novelists of Indian descent and Category:American novelists of Chinese descent, I am unsure it would be justified to break out any other sub-sets of Asian, but I could see historical and cultural arguments that might justify Category:American novelists of Japanese descent and Category:American novelists of Filipino descent. I also have to say these descent categories get crazy at times. I have seen articles that were categorized by 8 distinct ancestries. Having had friends growing up who had 4 grandparents who had immigrated to the US from 4 different countries I can actually see how this may at times be justified. On the other hand, at times these categories have been applied by reference to a name with no in article sourcing, which at times leads to applying ancestry based on a 5th great grandfather who married someone of a different descent and for the intevening generations that has been what has happened.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:43, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete target as well — these are tertiary and quaternary intersections. It is enough to have Category:American people of Indian descent and Category:American novelists. Unless they are writing about American novelists of Indian descent, but we have other categories for that.
 * You cannot delete an untagged, unnotified category, and that is what the target is at this point. The intersection of ethnicity and being a writer is going to be notable. What next, are you going to suggest we delete Category:African-American writers?John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:14, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose No longer a small category, and there is scope for expansion. --Just N. (talk) 22:11, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete a meaningless "descent" category with the usual problems: (a) what do American novelists of "Indian descent" do differently than those who aren't (i.e., why is this notable); (b) how do we objectively define how much "Indian descent" makes one eligible for inclusion in this category? (is it a One drop rule?); (c) how do we objectively define how recent must that "descent" be? If you credit that our species evolved from Africa, we're all of "African descent" ultimately so this is a universal like adding categories like Category:Human beings to all biographies. Presumably if one can overcome (a) in the first instance, which I believe no one has thus demonstrated, whatever difference must be attenuated as (b) declines and (c) increases unless one takes the position that the merest of "Fooian descent" works like a Mark of Cain that cannot be negated and one gets close to racial essentialism. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:57, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Movie Central original programming

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:46, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Movie Central original programming to Category:Crave original programming
 * Propose merging Category:The Movie Network original programming to Category:Crave original programming
 * Propose merging Category:HBO (Canadian TV channel) original programming to Category:Crave original programming
 * Nominator's rationale: Target category is no longer effectively served by maintaining multiple subcategories. This requires a bit of a complex explanation: prior to 2016, "The Movie Network" and "Movie Central" existed as two separate pay TV movie channels, one serving only Eastern Canada and one serving only Western Canada. But despite being owned by different companies at the time, they didn't invest in original programming independently of each other: TMN/MC programs were virtually always produced and/or aired jointly by both channels, so shows were always original to both channels rather than just one or the other. Then in 2016, MC sold out to TMN, so that TMN was now a fully national service -- and then in 2018 TMN rebranded itself as Crave. And while TMN and MC jointly branded one of their multiplex channels as "HBO Canada" in 2008, the programs they aired on that channel weren't actually branded as "HBO originals", but were still billed as "TMN/MC originals" since they were the parent services. (And even to this day, while one channel in the Crave multiplex is still named "HBO", its original content is still marketed as "Crave originals" rather than "HBO originals".) All of which means we don't really need four categories here: we don't need separate "Movie Central" and "The Movie Network" categories if all of the original programs they aired when they were separate things were always jointly shared by both services; we don't need a standalone "HBO" category if those shows have always been branded TMN/MC/Crave instead of HBO per se; and just merging them all into one new category but leaving that as a subcategory of Crave isn't necessary since TMN-->Crave was just a straight rebranding. It just isn't navigationally helpful to have four categories here, especially since not everything is actually subcategorized correctly. (There are "HBO" shows still in the TMN/MC cats instead of the HBO subcat, and TMN/MC shows that are being catted only as TMN and not as MC.) To be fair, separate TMN and MC categories seemed logical and reasonable when they were first created, back when TMN and MC were separate things, but given the current situation keeping four categories isn't effectively serving readers anymore. Bearcat (talk) 19:48, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SK2242 (talk) 21:57, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge MC & TNN/Neutral on HBO The first two make total sense, especially since they weren't substantively different prior even prior to the merger. The articles in the HBO Canada are split between just saying HBO and mentioning the other two networks which might be an editing issue so I'm less sure but certainly not opposed. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:58, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Baseball venues in North Texas

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:48, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Baseball venues in North Texas to Category:Baseball venues in Texas
 * Nominator's rationale: Because North Texas is an imprecise region without firm borders, this is a subjective category. See Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_December_17 for a recent example of a similar discussion. User:Namiba 20:14, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge per nominator....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 20:53, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge, even if the region would have precise boundaries we do not usually categorize sports venues by region. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:51, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge Ill-defined scope. Dimadick (talk) 12:17, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge According to our article on North Texas, there are about 12 counties that are only sometimes included in this region. I think there's also a similar natural region of Texas which doesn't have an article yet. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 12:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Doubtful -- We should upmerge, rather than delete. However there are four sibling categories for south, West, central and east Texas.  If this is removed they should also go; other wise the category structure will be inconsistent.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:45, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Agree that the siblings should be nominated too. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:12, 3 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge as the first step. I think "Baseball venues" should be renamed to "Dedicated baseball stadiums" or something, because I wouldn't be surprised if baseball has been played at many non-dedicated venues which would turn this into a WP:PERFCAT. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:47, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American women novelists of Indian descent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:46, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Upmerge Category:American women novelists of Indian descent to all 3 parents (Category:American novelists of Indian descent, Category:American women writers of Indian descent, Category:American women novelists.
 * Nominator's rationale I am very hesitant to bring this up at all since the existence of the parent category Category:American women novelists caused some people to engage in very egregious and unfounded character assasinations against me, some of which were carried out in the main stream media. However, despite the attempts to use the media to broadcast one view of categorization and engage in vote recruiting, the category survived this attack on it. That said, we do not have Category:African-American women novelists which would based on ethnic cohesion, historical ethnic size and ethnic uniquness be the most likely sub-cat to create (while Hispanics and Latinos outnumber African-Americans, Hispanics and Latinos are overall a less clearly unified group, but there are complicating issues, and for the vast majority of US history, African-Americans far outnumbered Hispanics and Latinos). This is actually on the order of a 4 part unifier. Even the parent category Category:American women novelists is hard pressed to justify on OCERGS rules, but since we subdivided Category:American novelists by century, we can be sure that all articles in Category:American women novelists can easily be placed in the appropriate by century sub-cat, thus following ERGS categorization rules. With this being the only sub-cat of Category:American women novelists except one category that groups one said novelists works, there is no real alternate way to split, and so it goes against the ERGS rules highly discouraging lowest rung category creation. Since we do have the parent Category:American women writers of Indian descent we will not loose much in the upmerge.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:39, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge as a trivial intersection between occupation and descent. It is not trivial when they write about India but we have other categories for that. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:55, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Well they will still be in Category:American novelists of Indian descent and Category:American women writers of Indian descent, so they will still be double categorized by the intersection of writing and ancestry to India, which seems enough, and still allows us to generally follow ERGS rules.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:50, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes we should keep merging until we are at a point that there is no longer a case of a trivial intersection. If some day Category:American novelists of Indian descent and Category:American women writers of Indian descent will be nominated, I will probably advocate further upmerging. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:28, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment This is supposed to be a non-diffucsing sub-cat of Category:American novelists of Indian descent, yet it is somehow bigger than the category it is not supposed to diffuse out of. This is impossible if we follow non-diffusing rules, so the current category in practice is leading to not following non-diffusing rules and in practice sits as a total violation of ERGS rules. When the system creates in practice something in violation of what are rules suggest, out rules are not working.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:46, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Conclusion is that in practice upmerging is a more effective means for maintaining WP:OCEGRS than saying that a category is non-diffusing. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:32, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 04:43, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge as a trivial intersection. There is much precedent for this as well. --22:39, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete targets as well — these are tertiary and quaternary intersections. It is enough to have Category:American people of Indian descent and Category:American women novelists. Unless they are writing about American women novelists of Indian descent, but we have other categories for that.
 * I think the triple intersection of Category:American women writers of Indian descent is a notable one. ANyway, to get rid of that or its parent Category:American writers of Indian descent you would have to make an actual nomination on those categories, not just try and cause it by non-nomination.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:22, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Per WP:OCEGRS a non-list article must be able to written on American women writers of Indian descent. Try. Remember WP:SYNTH. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:50, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Upmerge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 22:19, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per the usual problems of "descent" categories (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories) for explanation. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:48, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:International Triathlon Union world championships
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 January 19%23Category:International Triathlon Union world championships

Category:People from Providence, New York

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:44, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Providence, New York to Category:People from Saratoga County, New York
 * Nominator's rationale: Small one-county community with just two entries. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:22, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Agree Peter Flass (talk) 01:13, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge with no objection to recreating if it ever gets to 5+ articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:00, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 22:21, 2 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Mayors of places in France

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:42, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging
 * Category:Mayors of Annecy to Category:Mayors of places in Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes and Category:People from Annecy
 * Category:Mayors of Chambéry to Category:Mayors of places in Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes and Category:People from Chambéry
 * Category:Mayors of Villefranche-sur-Saône to Category:Mayors of places in Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes and Category:People from Villefranche-sur-Saône
 * Category:Mayors of Vesoul to Category:Mayors of places in Bourgogne-Franche-Comté‎ and Category:People from Vesoul
 * Category:Mayors of Brest, France to Category:Mayors of places in Brittany‎ and Category:People from Brest, France
 * Category:Mayors of Saint-Coulitz to Category:Mayors of places in Brittany‎ and Category:People from Finistère
 * Category:Mayors of Bourges to Category:Mayors of places in Centre-Val de Loire‎ and Category:People from Bourges
 * Category:Mayors of Tours, France to Category:Mayors of places in Centre-Val de Loire‎ and Category:People from Tours, France
 * Category:Mayors of Troyes to Category:Mayors of places in Grand Est and Category:People from Troyes
 * Category:Mayors of Dunkirk to Category:Mayors of places in Hauts-de-France and Category:People from Dunkirk
 * Category:Mayors of Valenciennes to Category:Mayors of places in Hauts-de-France and Category:People from Valenciennes
 * Category:Mayors of Saint-Ouen-sur-Seine to Category:Mayors of places in Île-de-France‎ and Category:People from Saint-Ouen-sur-Seine
 * Category:Mayors of Deauville to Category:Mayors of places in Normandy and Category:People from Deauville
 * Category:Mayors of Houlgate to Category:Mayors of places in Normandy and Category:People from Calvados (department)
 * Category:Mayors of Châtellerault to Category:Mayors of places in Nouvelle-Aquitaine and Category:People from Châtellerault
 * Category:Mayors of Pau, Pyrénées-Atlantiques to Category:Mayors of places in Nouvelle-Aquitaine and Category:People from Pau, Pyrénées-Atlantiques
 * Category:Mayors of Limoux to Category:Mayors of places in Occitanie and Category:People from Limoux
 * Category:Mayors of Lourdes to Category:Mayors of places in Occitanie and Category:People from Lourdes
 * Category:Mayors of Narbonne to Category:Mayors of places in Occitanie and Category:People from Narbonne
 * Category:Mayors of Le Mans to Category:Mayors of places in Pays de la Loire and Category:People from Le Mans
 * Category:Mayors of Fréjus to Category:Mayors of places in Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur and Category:People from Fréjus
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, just one, two or three articles in each of these categories and they are not part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge for Now All of these places likely had more than five mayors but most would be non-notable. No objection to recreating any if they exceed expectations and get to 5+ articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:05, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Just a critical question:Category:People from Annecy that means usually: Born in Annecy -> not exactly what is reqired for mayors who rarely ever make their election in their birth cities/towns. How to solve the problem? An error of mine? --Just N. (talk) 22:32, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
 * from is not limited to birth, it may refer to any place a person has lived in for a considerable amount of time, especially while being notable. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:18, 3 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:San Marino and Rimini's Coast motorcycle Grand Prix

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:41, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:San Marino and Rimini's Coast motorcycle Grand Prix to Category:San Marino and Rimini Riviera motorcycle Grand Prix
 * Nominator's rationale: Rename to match article, which has been renamed again without further discussion after a recent RM – but as the nominator in that RM, I accept the new name as consistent within Category:Motorcycle Grands Prix. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:27, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. --Just N. (talk) 22:35, 2 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Dunkin' Brands

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:39, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Dunkin' Brands to Category:Inspire Brands
 * Nominator's rationale: Dunkin' Brands has been acquired by Inspire Brands on December 15, 2020. Ridwan97 (talk) 03:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:10, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Question -- are Dunkin' Donuts to be rebranded Inspire Donuts? If not we probably ought to keep a category redirect.  Alteratively would a better outcome be to rename to Category:Dunkin' Donuts?  It depends how far the current brand is to be retained by its new owners.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:22, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
 * No objection to a redirect, but the only other Dunkin' Donuts article is 6abc Dunkin' Donuts Thanksgiving Day Parade which is likely WP:SHAREDNAME. - RevelationDirect (talk) 15:21, 2 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 22:37, 2 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Activists who committed suicide
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:59, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting activists who committed suicide


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.


 * Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 29
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 12
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:35, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete The intersection is not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:44, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. Dimadick (talk) 12:18, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining for the vast majority.--User:Namiba 13:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment I sampled several articles. What seemed more striking was not occupation so much as the circumstances of the suicide: (1) a reaction to being spurned by a lover (2) despair being a Jew trapped in Vichy France (3) PTSD (4) etc.  Occupation is not significant; and I am not sure what makes some of them activists anyway.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:57, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. --Just N. (talk) 22:38, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, as the intersection seems non-defining by default. Ditto for all others listed below. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 12:22, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete "activists" (which our article defines as basically anyone who has lived past toddler age) is a BS category to begin with and nothing links "activists" with suicide. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:52, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Doctors who committed suicide
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting doctors who committed suicide


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.


 * Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:


 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 29
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 12


 * Comment: Although physicians are apparently twice as likely to end their lives by suicide, that is actively discouraged by the profession. Moreover, the problem isn't mainly with doctors themselves, it is the resident trainees where suicide is one of the leading causes of death. That's a reflection of how badly they are treated, not a professional qualification. We don't have a category for residents, as they aren't likely to be notable. If they commit suicide, they are very unlikely to become notable.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:27, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Support While they may be known for both, the intersection is not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:11, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. Dimadick (talk) 12:18, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining for the vast majority.--User:Namiba 13:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It's easier for doctors to kill themselves, as the means are to hand. That doesnt make it defining. Rathfelder (talk) 16:49, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete no object to a list included in a sourced article about Suicide among doctors. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:53, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jurists who committed suicide
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:57, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting jurists who committed suicide


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.


 * Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 29
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 12
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:23, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Support The intersection is not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:13, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. Dimadick (talk) 12:19, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining for the vast majority.--User:Namiba 13:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete -- I sampled several articles. One was a judge who killed himself rather than face sexual abuse allegations.  The others seemed to have killed themselves preferring a quick death to a chronic incurable illness.  No link to occupation.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:02, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete not inherently notable intersection, but if someone wants to write Suicide among jurists and source it, no object to including including this in as a sourced list. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:55, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Philosophers who committed suicide
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:56, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting philosophers who committed suicide


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.


 * Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 29
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 12
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 02:10, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Support the intersection is not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:15, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. Dimadick (talk) 12:19, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining for the vast majority.--User:Namiba 13:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Purge -- In the case of Johan Robeck, suicide seems to have been an application of his philosophy, but in most cases, the death and philosophy seem unrelated. Charles Blount (deist) killed himself when rejected in love.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
 * This is an unclear counter proposal. If the category is kept, there is nothing to purge. E.g. while Charles Blount (deist) killed himself when rejected in love, he was still a philosopher. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:39, 1 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete not inherently notable intersection, but if someone wants to write Suicide among philosophers and source it, no object to including including this in as a sourced list. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:56, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Writers who committed suicide
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:55, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting dramatists and playwrights who committed suicide


 * Propose deleting journalists who committed suicide


 * Propose deleting poets who committed suicide


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.


 * Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 29
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 12
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 01:53, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:16, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Wait, these categories should be bundled with the remainder of the tree of Category:Writers who committed suicide. If they aren't bundled there is a risk that there is no consensus to delete the top category of writers who committed suicide and in that case the articles in these dramatists, journalists and poets subcategories should remain in the tree of writers who committed suicide somehow. For example William James Henderson is currently only in Category:Journalists who committed suicide, but not in any other writers who committed suicide subcat. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:03, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh for goodness sake. Journalists was also under the main "by occupation" category. So I've removed it from there, and I've nominated all suicide by writer by sex by country quadruple-intersection subcategories (below). If folks want to keep Writers by sex, then Journalists can be merged there.

William Allen Simpson (talk) 14:37, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * sorry to bother you again. Do you intend to propose deleting the intersection categories only, but not the top category of Writers who committed suicide? If that is the case, the proposal should be a merge rather than a deletion. Or if you do intend to propose deleting the top category as well, you need to expand your rationale. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:42, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If all of these are approved, there will be no need to nominate the parent Category:Writers who committed suicide. It will be deleted as empty. Until we've dealt with the constituent categories, we don't know whether we'll be allowed to delete the parent. That's the problem with doing things in batches over time. Also the problem with triple and quadruple intersection categories. Easy to create. Extremely time-consuming and difficult to delete. They should be outlawed entirely everywhere.


 * Support as a trivial intersection. There may have been many years between the last work and the suicide, making the link even weaker. (I am assuming that ultimately Category:Writers who committed suicide will be deleted as well. If the top category will be kept, these subcategories should be merged to Category:Writers who committed suicide.) Marcocapelle (talk) 17:11, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete The intersection is not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:22, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. Dimadick (talk) 12:19, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining for the vast majority.--User:Namiba 13:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete not inherently notable intersections, but if someone wants to write Suicide among writers, Suicide among dramatists and playwrights, Suicide among journalists, Suicide among poets and source them, no object to including this as a sourced list in those articles. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:58, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Writers who committed suicide by nationality
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:54, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting writers who committed suicide by nationality


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial triple-intersection. These must be inter-sex writers who are not already categorized as men or women. Otherwise, who in their right mind would categorize the same subcategories in a third way?


 * Comment — 51 not tagged, because they will be emptied.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:30, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:30, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment, this category will become empty when the categories in the two nominations below are deleted. So there is no need for a separate discussion about this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:19, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * There could be inter-sex writers. Or a result to merge upward. In which case, this covers all bases.


 * Defer To outcome below, whether I agree with the outcome or not. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:23, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. Dimadick (talk) 12:20, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining for the vast majority.--User:Namiba 13:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as will be empty soon enough. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:59, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Male writers who committed suicide
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:53, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting male writers who committed suicide


 * Propose deleting american male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting ancient roman male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting argentine male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting australian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting austrian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting brazilian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting british male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting english male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting scottish male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting welsh male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting canadian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting chinese male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting colombian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting czech male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting danish male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting dutch male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting finnish male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting french male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting german male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting greek male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting guyanese male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting hungarian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting indian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting iranian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting iranian azerbaijani male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting irish male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting italian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting japanese male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting jordanian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting malagasy male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting mexican male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting new zealand male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting norwegian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting peruvian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting polish male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting portuguese male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting romanian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting russian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting serbian male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting slovak male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting south african male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting spanish male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting sudanese male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting swedish male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting turkish male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting uruguayan male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting venezuelan male writers who committed suicide‎


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial quadruple-intersection. Perhaps because they were not women?
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:27, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 *  Delete Support in principle  as a trivial intersection of suicide with occupation. There may have been many years between the last work and the suicide, making the link even weaker. With one exception: merge Category:Ancient Roman male writers who committed suicide‎ to Category:Ancient Romans who committed suicide. (I am assuming that ultimately Category:Writers who committed suicide will be deleted as well. If the top category will be kept, these subcategories should be merged to Category:Writers who committed suicide.) Marcocapelle (talk) 17:16, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete The intersection is not defining. No objection to merging the Roman subcat. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. Dimadick (talk) 12:20, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining for the vast majority.--User:Namiba 13:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * A late correction: for now they should be merged to Category:Male suicides because there is no discussion yet about whether or not gendered suïcide categories are kept. I guess that that discussion will start too within the next week. This overrules my previous delete vote but my earlier comment about Anciens Romans remains valid. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:23, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The discussion about Category:Male suicides has meanwhile started as well, see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_December_31. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:23, 2 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete not inherently notable intersection, but if someone wants to write Suicide among male writers and source it, no object to including this as a sourced list in that article. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:00, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Women writers who committed suicide
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:51, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting women writers who committed suicide


 * Propose deleting american women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting argentine women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting australian women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting brazilian women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting british women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting english women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting canadian women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting chinese women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting croatian women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting czech women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting danish women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting dutch women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting french women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting german women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting greek women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting hungarian female writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting indian women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting italian women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting pakistani women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting south african women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting swedish women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting swiss women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting taiwanese women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Propose deleting turkish women writers who committed suicide‎


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial quadruple-intersection. Are women hysterical?


 * Comment — most of these have only 1 or 2 articles, and were created in the past year, some within the past month.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:23, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 *  Delete Support in principle  as a trivial intersection of suicide with occupation. There may have been many years between the last work and the suicide, making the link even weaker. (I am assuming that ultimately Category:Writers who committed suicide will be deleted as well. If the top category will be kept, these subcategories should be merged to Category:Writers who committed suicide.) Marcocapelle (talk) 17:17, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete the intersection is not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:25, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. Dimadick (talk) 12:20, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining for the vast majority.--User:Namiba 13:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * A late correction: for now they should be merged to Category:Female suicides because there is no discussion yet about whether or not gendered suïcide categories are kept. I guess that that discussion will start too within the next week. This overrules my previous delete vote. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:26, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The discussion about Category:Female suicides has meanwhile started as well, see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_December_31. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:24, 2 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete not inherently notable intersection, but if someone wants to write Suicide among female writers and source it, no object to including this as a sourced list in that article. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:01, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Aviators who committed suicide
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:36, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting aviators who committed suicide


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the occupation and the suicide, making the link even weaker.


 * Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 29
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 12


 * Comment: Most subcategories were eliminated by previous CfD. Remaining subcategories are not nominated, as they are both already in other suicide subcategories.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 01:31, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete the intersection is not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:25, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. Dimadick (talk) 12:21, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining for the vast majority.--User:Namiba 13:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete not inherently notable intersection, but if someone wants to (and can; see WP:SYNTH) write Suicide among aviators and source it, no object to including this as a sourced list in that article. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:33, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Criminals who committed suicide
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:48, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting criminals who committed suicide


 * Propose deleting murderers who committed suicide


 * Propose deleting serial killers who committed suicide


 * Propose deleting nazi collaborators who committed suicide


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between being a criminal and the manner of death. There may have been many years between the criminality and the suicide, making the link even weaker. Also, these would not be those who were incarcerated, as those already exist separately:
 * Category:People who committed suicide in prison custody
 * Category:Murderers who committed suicide in prison custody
 * Category:Serial killers who committed suicide in prison custody
 * Category:Nazis who committed suicide in prison custody


 * Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their history and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children. See previous:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 29
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 12


 * Comment: is [criminal | murderer | serial killer | Nazi collaborator] actually an occupation? How do you get paid for it? Why are Nazi collaborators criminals, but Nazis are not?
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 00:51, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Point taken that the nomination does not intend to delete in-custody suicides categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete The intersection is not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:26, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see this as trivial, and the sources cover it. Dimadick (talk) 12:21, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining for the vast majority.--User:Namiba 13:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Purge -- This is NOT a trivial intersection. Cases where a criminal killed themselves while in custody or to avoid arrest are certainly notable.  These are people who followed a course of action which had criminal consequences that they were not willing to face and see through.  The purged category might be Category:People who committed suicide to avoid prosecution.  The headnote would probably need to explain that it covered people who were suspected of serious crime, but had not been convicted.  Since the person is dead, I do not think there could be a libel suit.  This would apply to the judge I noted under the jurists category.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:17, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Category:People who committed suicide to avoid prosecution already exists under a different name and with a slightly different purpose, namely Category:Murder–suicides. This category has not been nominated for merging. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:45, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:01, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment — We don't assume guilt, not even for dead people. Therefore, we won't categorize Category:People who committed suicide to avoid prosecution.
 * Delete not inherently notable intersection, but if someone wants to (and can; see WP:SYNTH and WP:COAT) write Suicide among criminals and source it, no object to including this as a sourced list in that article. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:38, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete this is a trivial intersection. Cases where someone accused of a crime committed suicide to avoid arrest or related reasons should not be categorized because they were not conviced and we should not assume the role of judge on people.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:13, 14 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Silver Wolf Award (The Scout Association)
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:35, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Recipients of the Silver Wolf Award (The Scout Association)
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OVERLAPCAT & WP:OCAWARD)
 * Several Scouting groups have "Silver Wolf" awards and this one is from The Scout Association in the UK. There are really two categories of winners here:
 * 1: British Scouting people who are generally categorized in other scouting categories like Garth Morrison and Garth Morrison along with some colonial representation like Charles Hoadley
 * 2: Scouting people with no clear connection to the UK like Walther von Bonstetten, Sano Tsuneha and Demetrios Alexatos.
 * The first group is generally well categorized in other Scouting categories and mentions the award in passing. For international recipients, the Bronze Wolf Award and Silver Fish Award are considered the top international award. Neither group seems defined by this award. There wasn't a complete list so I created one right here in the main article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:04, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Background We recently deleted similar American scouting awards here, here, here, here and here; tagging all earlier participants regardless of vote: - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:04, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete, another obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:43, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * OK to DeleteThanks for the ping. I was too late to comment on the one deletion that was in error (Eagle) which is a widely noted objectively earned level, not an award. This case is (just) an award. <b style="color: #0000cc;">North8000</b> (talk) 12:31, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete this scouting award is not defining enough to justify categorizing by.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:12, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Once again, this is not a defining award, thus fails WP:OCAWARD. — Jkudlick &#x2693; t &#x2693; c &#x2693; s 02:49, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 22:42, 2 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ten Outstanding Young Persons of the World
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:34, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Ten Outstanding Young Persons of the World
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)
 * The Ten Outstanding Young Persons of the World an award from the Junior Chamber International for promising young people. But Wikipedia doesn't have articles on promising young people. By the time these people accomplish something else and have a Wikipedia article created, this award usually gets a passing reference. I'm not even sure if this was the intent of the category though because it only has the award article, a list and one winner. The current contents are already listified here in a separate list article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:04, 28 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete, potentially the category could be populated with many more articles, but it remains an obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:47, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete a non-defining award.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:13, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 22:44, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom & WP:TOPTEN. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:39, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.