Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 5



Cooking utensils

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 18:51, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Cooking utensils to Category:Food preparation utensils
 * Propose renaming Category:Cooking tools by country to Category:Food preparation utensils by country
 * Propose renaming Category:Mexican cooking tools to Category:Mexican food preparation utensils
 * Nominator's rationale: To match the other sub-cats by country, and List of food preparation utensils. Note merger to this form at Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 29. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:17, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Speedy Per WP:C2D, consistency with main article's name. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:53, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * For previous discussions see Categories for discussion/Log/2009 October 20 and Categories for discussion/Log/2012 March 15. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:27, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:C2C, especially after the discussion of October 20. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:34, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Teens' entertainment

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 18:51, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Teens' entertainment to Category:Teen entertainment
 * Nominator's rationale: All of the subcategories use "Teen" as the adjective. See related recent discussion here. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Rename, agree with rationale by, makes sense. Right cite (talk) 22:05, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Speedy rename per WP:C2C. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:35, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Benee

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 18:45, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting benee


 * Nominator's rationale: Per numerous precedent and WP:OCEPON, unnecessary eponymous category with only two subcats that are already interlinked. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 19:31, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom, I wonder if we shouldn't set up a Speedy process exactly for this type of configuration. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:37, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Athena games

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge Category:Athena series to Category:Athena games. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:20, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Athena games to Category:Athena series
 * Nominator's rationale: Redundant, WP:SMALLCAT, created by banned user. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 19:12, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The parent is even smaller. Alternatively suggest keeping this category and re-parenting it to Category:SNK games, and nominate Category:Athena series for deletion. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:46, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose Category:Athena series is virtually empty and should probably be merged into Category:Athena games. Dimadick (talk) 16:50, 8 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:XBIZ Award winners

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete Category:XBIZ Award winners; no consensus for Category:AVN Award winners. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:14, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting xbiz award winners


 * Propose deleting avn award winners


 * Nominator's rationale: Please see WP:OCAWARD. The AVN one was listified and deleted in 2008 following this discussion (then recreated in 2015). Cheers, gnu 57 17:20, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep, per Category:Academy Award winners. Right cite (talk) 17:22, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete both per WP:OCAWARD. Re-listify at editors' discretion.  Porn awards are not defining characteristics of notable porn topics.  Winning an Academy Award gets coverage by independent reliable sources.  Independent reliable sources note its significance to a film-related subject.  Winning "The Oscars of Porn" generally doesn't get RS attention for an actor, filmmaker or a film, despite the tag line. • Gene93k (talk) 17:56, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: Please see The Hollywood Reporter -- -- thank you, Right cite (talk) 18:44, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * "Oscars of Porn" a tag line, like "The Greatest Show on Earth!" The assertion doesn't reach the winners of the award.  Winning an AVN or XBIZ Award is not even considered evidence of notability any more.  With few exceptions, awards does not generate significant independent RS coverage for the win or the winners. • Gene93k (talk) 23:14, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , not true. Per example, Self Magazine, stating, "When Sinn Sage, an AVN award-winning porn performer and sex educator,...". Right cite (talk) 23:17, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I am going to agree with this. Mainstream reliable sources often introduce someone in pornography as an AVN winner as context of their importance in the industry. See Morbidthoughts (talk) 01:20, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It seems like every award is the "Oscars of..." or "equivalent of the Baseball Hall of Fame." It's not a lie exactly but it's aspirational. No one says the Nobel Peace Prize is the Olympic medal of peace prizes. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:37, 6 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete XBIZ/Keep but Purge AVN XBIZ doesn't come within a country mile of being defining. But, clicking through these articles, AVN does seem defining to the actors. (The AVN does not seem defining to the movie articles though, so I would purge them.) Even though I think the vast majority of existing award categories fall run afoul of WP:OCAWARD, this is a rare exception where the top award in the field is defining. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:34, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment Even though I assume I'm the oldest Wikipedian in most discussions, I'm not mature enough for the Octomom Home Alone article. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:34, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete, I checked a number of articles in Category:AVN Award winners and it does not consistently come up as a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:54, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Listify (if necessary) and delete -- The academy awards ("oscars") and Nobel Prizes are exceptions to the general OCAWARD rule. I have been voting (often successfully) against "Hall of Fame" categories where there is no physical museum.  Lists do the job much better, as they can tabulate the date and a brief citation.  If this was a category of award articles, my vote would be different, but it is not.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:03, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep AVN Award winners as it is a defining characteristic for those notable in the pornographic industry. Neutral in regard to XBIZ Award winners. — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 04:43, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep the AVN Award category per those above. No opinion on the XBIZ Awards. BD2412  T 22:35, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete both. If the awards can no longer be used to establish notability, then...no, neither are career-defining. As it has been stated in Afds, porn is an industry of circular congratulatory maneuvers to advertise themselves to the public. When it is said in the media that AVN is "the Oscars of porn", it is said with tongue firmly in cheek, if not elsewhere... Zaathras (talk) 12:49, 19 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People who died in office

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: do not rename, but there seems to also be a consensus that Category:Politicians who died in office should be created as a subcategory. I'm not doing that with this close; any interested party can do so. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:18, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:People who died in office to Category:Politicians who died in office
 * Nominator's rationale: Judging by the contents and description of the category, it refers to politicians who died while holding an elected office. While I am not sure if this is defining, the title needs clarification if kept. User:Namiba 15:10, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Dying in office of plain sickness is not very defining but we should probably discuss deletion in conjunction with its subcategories. Not sure of the rename either, how do we know if the category meanwhile does not contain a few judges, civil servants, clergy as well? I suppose the proper procedure would be to create a subcategory for politicians. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:04, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Re deletion - see 2013 CFD (closed as No consensus). DexDor(talk) 18:06, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment. There are some articles here that are not politicians (e.g. List of United States federal judges killed in office). DexDor(talk) 18:06, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Should that be included, as federal judges have no set terms? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.110.217.186 (talk) 23:13, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It should still be included, as most federal judges retire before they die. BD2412  T 19:31, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep but Containerise and purge -- This appears to be such an enormous category that it will be useless as a navigation tool. There is no reason to rename.  The head note excludes monarchs and popes who automatically hold office for life, but in most professions it is now normal for people to retire.  Formerly it did not, so that judges, bishops, archbishops, and many other office holders held office until they died, despite holding office "during pleasure" or "during good behaviour".  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:13, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep The suggested name narrows the scope considerably. Category:Politicians who died in office should be a subcategory. Dimadick (talk) 16:57, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment what is "in office" mean? Monarchs, US federal judges, Popes, generally have lifetime "offices", so it's not particularly notable for the biographies of Edward VII of the United Kingdom or Pope John Paul II or Ruth Bader Ginsburg that they died in office. Is being the host of Jeopardy "in office" or being on a current team roster "in office" or is "in office" mean only a government position? The pope being head of state of Vatican City would qualify, but would the Archbishop of Canterbury or Eastern Patriarchs? (again, dying in such position whether termed "office" or not is not unusual over the long history of them. Dying before retirement is not particularly notable; it's a common ending for the less well-to-do and workaholics. So how are these notable categories? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:26, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Retirement is a fairly modern idea. Surely until the 20th century dying in office was pretty normal for many offices?  All the Roman Emperors, pretty well all monarchs everywhere even now ....Rathfelder (talk) 21:59, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The category is mostly used for people who were elected for a certain term. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:27, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The description specifically says "It should not contain offices where the normal term limit is life (monarchs, popes, etc.)." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.110.217.186 (talk) 23:26, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It's not defining for many and certainly not for those. It's probably not defining for many minor politicians (mayors, members of parliament, school board members). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:37, 16 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep and make Category:Politicians who died in office a subcategory, per Dimadick; purge monarchs and other holders of lifetime offices from which resignation or retirement is unusual. Note that judges (1) are not necessarily "politicians", and should be kept separate from politicians if unelected, and (2) can and do resign or retire, and should be considered to have died "in office" if none of those circumstances are present. BD2412  T 18:52, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: I have created Category:Judges who died in office. Going through my own articles on judges, it is looking like about one in six. If the number is large enough, I will subcategorize further. BD2412  T 19:30, 16 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Pollinator decline

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 18:44, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting pollinator decline


 * Nominator's rationale: Of the articles in the category only the eponymous article is specifically about pollinator decline. The articles are all in other suitable categories.  Note: The category text ("Articles related to pollinator decline, particularly in bees.") and that it was created without any parents suggests a mis-understanding of wp categorization. DexDor(talk) 12:26, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Most of the articles, insofar appropriate, are already in Category:Bee ecology. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:16, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Musicians from Amarillo, Texas

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:44, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Musicians from Amarillo, Texas to [Both Texas parent categories]
 * Nominator's rationale: Too few articles: no need to drill down to a three-person by city category. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:32, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep For US cities the size of Amarillo, there are almost guaranteed to be a fair number of articles on musicians. I found 4 more while examining with names between A and J.--User:Namiba 15:19, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Update: After going through all of the articles in, there are now 20 articles in the musicians category.--User:Namiba 16:57, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep - good work . Grutness... wha?   03:20, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Now decently-sized. There probably still is scope for expansion. Dimadick (talk) 17:03, 8 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Malaysian Service Medal

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:48, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Recipients of the Malaysian Service Medal
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:PERFCAT and WP:OCAWARD (WP:NONDEFINING)
 * The Malaysian Service Medal is automatically given to all soldiers who served 6 months or longer in one of three military campaigns. We generally avoid categorizing by campaign medals because it creates clutter for career officers. While a lot of soldiers must have received this award, the category only contains eight articles of which five actually mention the medal so I listified those here in the main article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:22, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Background We've deleted similar categories for campaign medals from other countries here, here, here, here, here, here and here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:22, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete, an obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:12, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete -- This is a campaign star that came up with the rations. No list needed.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:17, 8 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Chevening Scholars

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 19:47, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Chevening Scholars
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)
 * Each year, the British Foreign Office issues scholarships for foreign students to study in the UK and, according to the Chevening Scholarship article, the programme started in 1983 and has given funds to over 50,000 students. Within the articles, the award doesn't seem defining and usually gets a passing reference in the education section. And these articles are already in the alumni category for whichever university this scholarship paid for. The contents are already listified here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:22, 5 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Background We previously deleted other categories for college scholarship recipients here, here, here and here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:22, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete, not a defining characteristic and rather trivial. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:14, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Listify and delete -- This is a scholarship to enable foreign students to study in UK. As such it is hardly defining.  However I would not want to do a plain delete.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:21, 8 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hasan ibn Ali

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:04, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting hasan ibn ali


 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:OCEPON, only one other article next to the eponymous article. The two articles are already interlinked directly. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:50, 5 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has many articles related to Hasan ibn Ali and most of them are linked at Template:Hasan_ibn_Ali. This might just be a Categories, lists, and navigation templates question.VR talk 21:30, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It is well possible to have a template without an eponymous category. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:42, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 10:46, 26 September 2020 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:12, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per OCEPON. An eponymous category for a person is not needed unless the person is such a large topic that there are several articles specifically about them (e.g. a "Death of ..." article) - not articles related to them. DexDor(talk) 07:04, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - per nom. 2 articles, one rather tenuous, no subcats. Oculi (talk) 14:16, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete I don't hold the article count for eponymous category to a higher standard, but I do hold them to my usual of 5 articles. This might be two. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:44, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. The template links mostly redirect to other articles or sections, e.g. "Family tree of Hasan" links to Family tree of Ali. I added one but there are still only three articles in the category: Hasan ibn Ali, Hasan–Muawiya treaty, Muawiya, Hassan and Hussein (TV series). – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:11, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete -- too little content. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:24, 8 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.