Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 August 14



Category:People with social anxiety disorder

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  bibliomaniac  1  5  04:56, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting people with social anxiety disorder
 * Nominator's rationale: Non-defining category per WP:COPDEF and WP:NONDEFINING. While verifiable, it is almost never associated with someone's notability: mentioned perhaps in interviews or niche health websites, but not a label commonly and consistently bestowed upon people in reliable sources. See previous related deletion discussion for Category:People with anxiety disorders (result, deleted). --Animalparty! (talk) 23:28, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete we do not need to categorize people by every possible trait.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:29, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Anti-Islam political parties in Finland

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  bibliomaniac  1  5  04:56, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Anti-Islam political parties in Finland to Category:Anti-Islam political parties in Europe
 * Nominator's rationale: option A: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, only one party; option B: delete as the party is more clearly anti-immigration than anti-Islam. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:38, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom's option B.--Darwinek (talk) 02:52, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete This is not really a defining trait for the one party involved. We do not want to go down the road of categorizing political parties by every position they have ever advanced or held.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:31, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, and push that one (Finns) party to Category:Anti-Islam political parties in Europe.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  19:56, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. User:Santasa99 or other editors might do well to clarify the differences between these & other related categories, especially as Category:Anti-Islam sentiment currently says "For anti-Muslim racism see Category:Islamophobia". – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:12, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Anti-Muslim sentiment to Category:Anti-Islam sentiment
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, it is unclear what the difference is between anti-Islam sentiment and anti-Muslim sentiment and we do not have a similar distinction in other religion category trees. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:03, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom; no clear distinction. User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)  12:21, 17 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge There is no clear distinction. Although we mainly do not have similar issues with other religions because most other religions do not have the same issue with two names for the same thing.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:32, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Further comment, it occurs to me that it will be useful to leave a redirect. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:00, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep - we had exactly the same discussion on the same issue twice (maybe even three times) in just two or three years (this is at least a second time), but I will try to explain again the purely linguistic dichotomy of “subject versus object”: anti-Muslim animus is directed at a person / persons / groups, and anti-Islam is attack and / or hatred directed at different aspects of that particular religion, such as practices, texts, holly places and buildings, etc. This means that the distinction cannot be more clear: anti-Muslim animus = attitudes toward a person or persons; and anti-Islam as an excessive critique of ideology, in this case religion. In practice, this means that one can express a negative attitude towards one without influencing the other, in both directions - for example, one can feel respect for the Islamic faith, but still hate members, because, just as in the case of Jews, Muslims often express their self-identification and see themselves in purely ethnic categories (culturally and in some places like the Balkans linguistically), while outsiders use this categorization even more persistently. So we have Bosnian Muslims, Albanian Muslims, Montenegrin Muslims, Bulgarian Muslims, Serbian Muslims, northern Macedonian Muslims as an ethnic category, and accordingly we have an anti-Muslim feeling expressed as pure ethnic hatred.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  23:48, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment - If anything, then you should have proposed to merge the category "anti-Islam sentiment" with the category "Islamophobia" and leave a redirect (for anti-Islam.sent.), however we must have an anti-Muslim sentiment, not just because we do have other "anti -... use-some-ethnicity ... sentiment", but because we need this one.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  00:23, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I am sorry but I am not following. Either one hates a Muslim because he is part of a religious community (Islam), or one hates him for a personal reason, e.g. because he is too noisy and disturbing his neighbours. The latter is irrelevant for this discussion, the former is what makes the two categories coincide in purpose. The fact that Muslims also have a nationality is unrelated. If one hates Albanian Muslims as a group and not, say, Albanian ex-Muslims, then it is still because they are a religious group within the Albanian nationality. By the way, if some of the content in Category:Anti-Islam sentiment more specifically belongs in Category:Islamophobia, then it can be moved there already, per WP:SUBCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:59, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * In some parts of the world, Muslims are considered ethnicity, regardless of their religiosity - Bosnian Muslim is ethnic label, for instance. You can be Marco living in the Balkans and avoid being hurt regardless of the fact that you are religious follower of Islam, and you can be Muhammad and suffer regardless of the fact that you are atheist or even devoted follower of Jesus.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  15:13, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * When someone's name is Muhammad and he is hurt because he is assumed to be Muslim, it is still anti-Islam sentiment despite the assumption is incorrect. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:29, 24 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Further comment, Anti-Muslim redirects to Anti-Islam. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:29, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * No, Marko, either you read my comment wrong or you did not read it in its entirety - I said that Muhammad may be an atheist, and hate ed because he belongs to a Muslim ethnicity / nationality and not to the religion of Islam. This happens in places like the Balkans, where the term “Muslim” means ethnicity, in parallel with belonging to the Islamic religion, but not necessarily and not always at the same time. -- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  15:25, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Maybe this could shed some additional light.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  15:46, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * This is fringe vocabulary. We would never categorize Richard Dawkins as a Christian because he labeled himself a cultural Christian once. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Fringe, according to whom? Dawkins once labeled himself, but he lived his whole life as a cultural Christian - I mean how many times does it take someone to label themselves for someone else to accept their chosen identity? I wrote above about the Muslims of the Balkans, and Bosnian Muslims were primarily victims of ethnic cleansing, not religious persecution and the Crusades - hundreds of thousands died, and many others were ethnically cleansed from their homes because they were ethnic Muslims, and not necessarily believers.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  14:39, 27 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Strong keep' - Muslims are people and Islam is a religion. There is no confusion between the two. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:40, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Khakas musical instruments
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 August 26%23Category:Khakas musical instruments

Category:Khakas cuisine
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 August 26%23Category:Khakas cuisine

Category:Khakas people
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 August 26%23Category:Khakas people

Category:Prophets of the Qur'an

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Prophets of the Quran.  bibliomaniac  1  5  04:58, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting prophets of the qur'an
 * Nominator's rationale:
 * Duplicates Prophets and messengers in Islam
 * Duplicates Table of prophets of Abrahamic religions
 * Does not include contents of Template:Prophets in the Quran Whiteguru (talk) 12:31, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Support, not because it duplicates articles, but because the intention of the category is largely covered by another category, namely Category:Hebrew Bible people in Islam. These are Hebrew Bible people that are considered prophets in Islam. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:40, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * See also Categories for discussion/Log/2020 September 7, deletion of a category with very similar content. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:32, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment - if consensus is to keep, the category should be moved to agree with the title of the article Quran. Grutness... wha?   15:06, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - but rename to per Quran and Category:Quran. There are several not in the Hebrew Bible, and categories and lists can co-exist. Oculi (talk) 00:31, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Very very few are not in the Hebrew Bible, e.g. Saleh is not. WP:OVERLAPCAT speaks of mostly overlapping categories. For Muhammad and Saleh we may create Category:Arab prophets of Islam. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:23, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * So we could have containing subcat Category:Hebrew Bible prophets of the Quran (subcat also of Category:Hebrew Bible people in Islam). Oculi (talk) 12:00, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Fair point. Instead I will support renaming to per Quran and Category:Quran, WP:C2D and WP:C2C. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:54, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep This is clearly defining. I am thinking the David in Islam and Solomon in Islam categories should be merged here, becasue as prophet is understood and used in the context of the Bible I do not believe that either of these individuals are identified by this moniker in that context.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:38, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment - I support Oculi-Marcocapelle proposal.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  19:46, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Thomist philosophers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Thomists.  bibliomaniac  1  5  04:58, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Thomist philosophers to Category:Thomists
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, the two categories appear to serve the same purpose. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:43, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge the heading of the Thomists category requires that these be philosophers.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:39, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Burials at al-Baqi' cemetery

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge, leaving a possible rename to a fresh discussion (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:56, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Burials at al-Baqi' cemetery to Category:Burials at Jannat al-Baqī
 * Nominator's rationale: Both category titles refer to the same place. It is redundant to have two separate categories for the same thing. I also propose that the merged category be renamed to "Burials at the Jannat al-Baqī cemetery" because the cemetery is most widely known as "Jannat al-Baqi" instead of just "al-Baqi" - Sulṭān ʿAbdullāh al-Hindi Talk 07:10, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. I have tagged Category:Burials at al-Baqi' cemetery while Category:Burials at Jannat al-Baqī was already tagged. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:42, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Agree with merger but Jannat al-Baqi redirects to Al-Baqi' and convention is to follow the article. I don't know whether 'cemetery' is implicit in Al-Baqi': Category:Burials in Saudi Arabia and Category:Cemeteries in Saudi Arabia are not consistently named. Oculi (talk) 14:34, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: The article's lede refers to it as Jannat al-Baqi' - perhaps moving the article would be a reasonable precursor to any discussion about the category? Grutness... wha?   01:50, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes. It was moved the other way in 2009. There is also the question of al-Baqi' versus al-Baqi. There are many contenders for the name: with or without Jannat, with or without cemetery, with or without a ' (or ī, with a bar). Oculi (talk) 10:44, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support Same scope. Dimadick (talk) 05:38, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment remains unclear. Probably true: "many contenders for the name: with or without Jannat, with or without cemetery, with or without a ' (or ī, with a bar)". Confusing unclear. Or even subject to subjective taste of language conventions? At least 'cemetery' as base word should be a must. --Just N. (talk) 13:00, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment It is NOT true AT ALL that the cemetery is most widely known as "Jannat al-Baqi'"!!! Baqi' al-Gharqad or Jannat al-Baqi', is simply better known as al-Baqi'. In my humble opinion, I think it's better to move "Category:Burials at Jannat al-Baqī" to "Category:Burials at al-Baqi' cemetery" because Jannat al-Baqi' is UNknown name, and me personally and seriously, have never heard of it before coming here!!! I would also suggest moving both of them to Category:Burials at al-Baqi' without cemetery. PS: the apostrophe ( ' ) is necessary because deleting it will completely change the pronunciation of the word and its meaning at the same time!--TheEagle107 (talk) 10:47, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Zamalek Presenter's from Egypt

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: procedural close, the categories have already been speedily deleted (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 10:48, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting zamalek presenter's from egypt
 * Nominator's rationale: Category is incorrectly designed and loops to null Whiteguru (talk) 03:00, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete created by an obvious sock. Probably all of these various pages they keep recreating need to be salted. PohranicniStraze (talk) 04:09, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Procedural comment, I will tag and list the subcategories as well:
 * presenter from egypt
 * zamalek presenters egypt
 * All three have also been tagged for WP:G5. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:07, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.