Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 August 20



Category:Gemstones in fiction
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 September 11%23Category:Gemstones in fiction

Category:Fashion in fiction

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Fiction about fashion.  bibliomaniac  1  5  18:26, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Fashion in fiction to Category:Fiction about fashion
 * Nominator's rationale: More clearly phrased as only including works of fiction with fashion as a defining characteristic, per WP:NONDEF. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 18:48, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support, more clearly phrased as a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:01, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak Support I don't actually see much of a difference between the two phrases, but I suppose some articles could be miscategorized. Dimadick (talk) 07:24, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Masks in fiction
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 September 11%23Category:Masks in fiction

Category:Sports teams in New Iberia, Louisiana

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: upmerge (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:59, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting sports teams in new iberia, louisiana
 * Nominator's rationale: Category contains 1 article, 3 redirects, and 2 categories. Both categories are SMALLCATs and are up for deletion. User:Namiba 16:14, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Upmerge to the (fairly questionably sized) Grutness...  wha?   04:37, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Upmerge per Grutness. --Just N. (talk) 20:23, 24 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:New Iberia Pelicans

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: upmerge (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 08:06, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting new iberia pelicans
 * Nominator's rationale: Per SMALLCAT. Category contains only a redirect and a category for players. User:Namiba 16:13, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Upmerge to the (fairly questionably sized) Grutness...  wha?   04:37, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Upmerge per Grutness. --Just N. (talk) 20:25, 24 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Mechanics articles needing expert attention

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete, meanwhile the category is empty (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 08:13, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting mechanics articles needing expert attention
 * Nominator's rationale: Only article has has its tag removed for being unclear, and this category does not correspond to any WikiProject. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 12:39, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Prisons in fiction

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: alt rename to Category:Fiction set in prisons.  bibliomaniac  1  5  18:27, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Prisons in fiction to Category:Fiction about prison
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEF. Mere inclusion of a prison should not be enough to justify inclusion in the category. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 12:24, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support, more clearly phrased as a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:28, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose If prison is a work's main setting, then this should be Category:Fiction set in prisons and categorized as part of Category:Works by setting. Dimadick (talk) 07:30, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Fair point, I support this rename too. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:43, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Circuses in fiction

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: alt rename to Category:Fiction set in circuses.  bibliomaniac  1  5  18:27, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Circuses in fiction to Category:Fiction about circuses
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEF. Mere inclusion of a circus should not be enough to justify inclusion in the category. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 12:15, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose - convention in Category:Locations in fiction is 'XXX in fiction'. 'Mere inclusion of a circus' should indeed be insufficient and any such articles should be ejected from the category. Oculi (talk) 12:22, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * There are categories with this naming style; see also Category:Fiction about summer camps‎, Category:Fiction about astronomical locations‎. Merely arguing that it is the convention and that is why it shouldn't be changed is insufficient in this case. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 12:33, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * These few anomalies (3 out of 37) would be speedy renames, per WP:C2C. On the contrary it is the nom who has to make a case for creating exceptions to the obvious convention. If the intention is to rename all the subcats of Category:Locations in fiction, that would be a different matter. Oculi (talk) 12:42, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The problem is that some of them are different. For example, a category called Category:Fiction about cities would not make much sense, as it is set in the city. It is not, as you claim, a one size fits all situation. And trying to rename everything at the same time would result in a WP:TRAINWRECK, which is what you are suggesting. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 15:50, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support, more clearly phrased as a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:29, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose If a circus is a work's main setting, then this should be Category:Fiction set in circuses and categorized as part of Category:Works by setting. I hope nobody confuses the modern concept of the circus with the Circus Maximus. Dimadick (talk) 07:34, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Fair point, I support this rename too. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:44, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Alt rename per Dimadick & Marco. --Just N. (talk) 20:28, 24 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional sunken cities

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: split merge to Category:Mythical lost cities and towns and Category:Fictional lost cities and towns (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:50, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Fictional sunken cities to Category:Mythical lost cities and towns
 * Nominator's rationale: Almost every member of this category is mythical, not fictional, besides R'lyeh, which can be merged into Category:Fictional lost cities and towns instead. Per WP:SMALLCAT, it should be upmerged. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 12:10, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Support - Dolwyn belongs in the Fictional category as well. Grutness... wha?   16:34, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support Not enough articles on fictional cities, as opposed to cities from myths and legends. And I have no idea why a film is included in this category. Dimadick (talk) 07:37, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support Suggest we have some notes explaining that fictional means "arbitrary invention", "known to be false", while mythical can include "fictional" but can also include "Known only or principally through myths rather than through verifiable historical facts; belonging to or existing only in myth; fantastical." (OED) Troy being the most obvious example of a place that was once mythical but is now known to be real.Be aware that these categories were created by simply adding the word "fictional" to the front of the established categories in Category:Former cities and Category:Former places. Whatever we do, it's important for non-real locations to maintain a parallel structure to the ones used for real geographical locations, for the primary purpose never confusing readers as to which is which. Without a specific fictional (or mythical if you prefer) sub-category, articles about fictional locations will default up into categories of real places. -Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:29, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional lost cities and towns

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Fictional populated places (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:00, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Fictional lost cities and towns to Category:Fictional lost places
 * Nominator's rationale: There are not enough members of the category for the name to be this specific. As such, it should be moved higher in the category tree, to Category:Lost places. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 12:06, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Weak oppose I am not particularly thrilled by the current name, but the suggested name is too vague. Would this include individual buildings or islands? Dimadick (talk) 07:41, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Anything that would normally be categorized into "Lost places" including islands, buildings, etc. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 11:16, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * "Places" is too vague and inconsistent with the criteria of the parent category "populated places".
 * Alternate proposal upmerge Category:Fictional lost cities and towns into the parent category Category:Fictional populated places, and diffuse or recategorize the overflow articles in Category:Fictional populated places as needed. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:30, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support Dennis Bratland's proposal. We do not need to specify the type of the settlement in the category. Dimadick (talk) 06:11, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support Dennis Bratland's proposal. This adopts then solution we came up with long ago.  The question is how far "lost" adds anything; I suspect not, but if we do need "lost", it would be rename to Category:Fictional lost populated places.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:47, 29 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:New Iberia Cardinals
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: upmerge (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 08:15, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting new iberia cardinals
 * Nominator's rationale: Category for defunct baseball team that has only one entry and one subcategory. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 09:05, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Upmerge to the (fairly questionably sized) Grutness...  wha?   04:38, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Upmerge per Grutness. --Just N. (talk) 20:30, 24 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Adam and Eve in Islam
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: upmerge.  bibliomaniac  1  5  18:24, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting adam and eve in islam
 * Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT, and manually move the Al-A'raf article to Category:Adam and Eve. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:05, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Upmerge to Category:Adam and Eve. This category has no chance of expanding to contain multiple articles on Islamic mythology. I have no idea why it was created in the first place. Dimadick (talk) 07:45, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Upmerge per Dimadick. --Just N. (talk) 20:32, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Upmerge per Dimadick as well. --Dan Carkner (talk) 19:19, 26 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Prophets in Islam
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Prophecy in Islam.  bibliomaniac  1  5  18:24, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Prophets in Islam to Category:Prophecy in Islam
 * Nominator's rationale: rename, topic category rather than a set category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Support The current name suggests inclusion of biographical articles, and has no connection to the actual contents. Dimadick (talk) 07:48, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose This is a higher container category for the subcategories that actually cover the articles on the prophets.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:20, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not sure how this is relevant. The articles in the nominated category are topic articles, that is what matters. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:58, 23 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Support --Just N. (talk) 20:33, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Support -- Much better description of contents. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:49, 29 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.