Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 December 22



Category:Provincial governors of the Philippines
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 February 15%23Category:Provincial governors of the Philippines

Category:Female candidates for President of the United States

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. There was likewise no consensus at Talk:African-American_candidates_for_President_of_the_United_States to rename related articles. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:26, 15 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Female candidates for President of the United States to Category:Female candidates for president of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of the United States to Category:Candidates for president of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of India to Category:Candidates for president of India
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Pakistan to Category:Candidates for president of Pakistan
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Croatia to Category:Candidates for president of Croatia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Nigeria to Category:Candidates for president of Nigeria
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Chile to Category:Candidates for president of Chile
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of the Republic of China to Category:Candidates for president of the Republic of China
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of the Philippines to Category:Candidates for president of the Philippines
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Mexico to Category:Candidates for president of Mexico
 * Propose renaming Category:African-American candidates for President of the United States to Category:African-American candidates for president of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Argentina to Category:Candidates for president of Argentina
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Chechnya to Category:Candidates for president of Chechnya
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Haiti to Category:Candidates for president of Haiti
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Ukraine to Category:Candidates for president of Ukraine
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of France to Category:Candidates for president of France
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Italy to Category:Candidates for president of Italy
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Abkhazia to Category:Candidates for president of Abkhazia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Armenia to Category:Candidates for president of Armenia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Uruguay to Category:Candidates for president of Uruguay
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Brazil to Category:Candidates for president of Brazil
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Germany to Category:Candidates for president of Germany
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of the Comoros to Category:Candidates for president of the Comoros
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Belarus to Category:Candidates for president of Belarus
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Russia to Category:Candidates for president of Russia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Cameroon to Category:Candidates for president of Cameroon
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Egypt to Category:Candidates for president of Egypt
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Liberia to Category:Candidates for president of Liberia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Romania to Category:Candidates for president of Romania
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Peru to Category:Candidates for president of Peru
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Austria to Category:Candidates for president of Austria
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of the Democratic Republic of the Congo to Category:Candidates for president of the Democratic Republic of the Congo
 * Propose renaming Category:Jewish American candidates for President of the United States to Category:Jewish American candidates for president of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Fictional candidates for President of the United States to Category:Fictional candidates for president of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of the Czech Republic to Category:Candidates for president of the Czech Republic
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Poland to Category:Candidates for president of Poland
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Iran to Category:Candidates for president of Iran
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Bulgaria to Category:Candidates for president of Bulgaria
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Serbia to Category:Candidates for president of Serbia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Colombia to Category:Candidates for president of Colombia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Portugal to Category:Candidates for president of Portugal
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Gabon to Category:Candidates for president of Gabon
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Lebanon to Category:Candidates for president of Lebanon
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Iceland to Category:Candidates for president of Iceland
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of the Dominican Republic to Category:Candidates for president of the Dominican Republic
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Indonesia to Category:Candidates for president of Indonesia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Seychelles to Category:Candidates for president of Seychelles
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of North Macedonia to Category:Candidates for president of North Macedonia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Sri Lanka to Category:Candidates for president of Sri Lanka
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Hungary to Category:Candidates for president of Hungary
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Angola to Category:Candidates for president of Angola
 * Propose renaming Category:Lists of candidates for President of the United States to Category:Lists of candidates for president of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Lists of candidates for President of Russia to Category:Lists of candidates for president of Russia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Angola to Category:Candidates for president of Angola
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Venezuela to Category:Candidates for president of Venezuela
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Rwanda to Category:Candidates for president of Rwanda
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Zambia to Category:Candidates for president of Zambia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Finland to Category:Candidates for president of Finland
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Honduras to Category:Candidates for president of Honduras
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Slovakia to Category:Candidates for president of Slovakia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Latvia to Category:Candidates for president of Latvia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Uganda to Category:Candidates for president of Uganda
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Ghana to Category:Candidates for president of Ghana
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Namibia to Category:Candidates for president of Namibia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Sudan to Category:Candidates for president of Sudan
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Bolivia to Category:Candidates for president of Bolivia
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Benin to Category:Candidates for president of Benin
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Kenya to Category:Candidates for president of Kenya
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Montenegro to Category:Candidates for president of Montenegro
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Israel to Category:Candidates for president of Israel
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Zimbabwe to Category:Candidates for president of Zimbabwe
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of South Korea to Category:Candidates for president of South Korea
 * Propose renaming Category:Female candidates for President of the Czech Republic to Category:Female candidates for president of the Czech Republic
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for President of Nigeria by party to Category:Candidates for president of Nigeria by party
 * Propose renaming Category:Female candidates for President of Russia to Category:Female candidates for president of Russia
 * Propose renaming Category:Hispanic and Latino American candidates for President of the United States to Category:Hispanic and Latino American candidates for president of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:African-American candidates for Vice President of the United States to Category:African-American candidates for vice president of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for Vice President of the United States to Category:Candidates for vice president of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Candidates for Vice President of Abkhazia to Category:Candidates for vice president of Abkhazia
 * Propose renaming Category:Female candidates for Vice President of the United States to Category:Female candidates for vice president of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Jewish American candidates for Vice President of the United States to Category:Jewish American candidates for vice president of the United States
 * Propose renaming Category:Native American candidates for Vice President of the United States to Category:Native American candidates for vice president of the United States

Nominator's rationale: While it could arguably be permissible under MOS:JOBTITLES (not modified, not plural, etc.), WP:CATNAME requires regular nouns to be lowercase most of the time. It seems to me that president qualifies as a regular noun. Woko Sapien (talk) 17:11, 22 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment: Obviously this is a long list and mistakes can happen. So please feel free to suggest any categories I might've missed or point out any errors I've made.--Woko Sapien (talk) 19:09, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak oppose. I understand your argument, but these still look like they act as official titles - "president" may be a regular noun, but "President of Foo" is a title and a proper noun phrase. Grutness... wha?   00:18, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I think a case could be made that either way is acceptable within Wikipedia's formatting guidelines. However, I would point out that MOS:JOBTITLES distinguishes between titles (can be capitalized) and offices (should usually be lowercase). Candidates don't run for titles, they run for offices. Therefore, while it isn't modified or plural (as I've said in my rationale), I'd contend that these categories are implicitly referring to the office of president of Foo, not the title of President of Foo.--Woko Sapien (talk) 16:47, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Mmmm. It's a tricky one. It could definitely be seen either way. Grutness... wha?   00:15, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The difference between an office and a title isn't very clear at all. It would make more sense if WP:MOS made one uniform choice for both. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:18, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * It's definitely murky to say the least. But my imperfect rule of thumb is to think of titles as adjectives and offices as nouns. For instance, Bill Clinton was President of the United States; he was impeached during his presidency. This can be restructured as President Bill Clinton [of the United States] was impeached during his presidency. This follows the same logic as the dog is brown and his name is Fido or the brown dog is named Fido. But here, that doesn't quite work because Candidates for President of Foo cannot be restructured as President candidates of Foo.--Woko Sapien (talk) 16:03, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Instead, you have to change the noun into an adjective (Presidential candidates of Foo). Hence these categories refer to the office of president, not the title of President.--Woko Sapien (talk) 16:10, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Except, given it's a noun phrase, you'd be talking about "President of Foo candidates"... which doesn't seem to have an adjectival form. Grutness... wha?   22:48, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I suppose so. Either way, I still maintain that candidates patently run for offices, not for titles. And lowercase is in keeping with the spirit of the style manual. But yeah, it's a gray area for sure.Woko Sapien (talk) 20:23, 25 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Notice: I've started another discussion for the articles that have similar names to these categories here --Woko Sapien (talk) 18:22, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 * This is where editors stand so far on the discussion for similarly named articles.--Woko Sapien (talk) 20:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People detained in hospitals in the United Kingdom

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: withdrawn.  ✗  plicit  01:54, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer, it is the only subcategory of Category:People detained in psychiatric hospitals. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:07, 2 November 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  12:36, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People detained in hospitals in the United Kingdom to Category:People detained in psychiatric hospitals
 * I think people can be detained in other sorts of hospitals - though I doubt if we have any articles about them. Rathfelder (talk) 21:00, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge the only subcats of this are people detained in two specific psychiatric hospitals, we don't have any article about people held in other types of hospitals. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:00, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:People detained in high-security psychiatric hospitals in the United Kingdom. There should be a third sibling category for Rampton Category:People detained in Rampton Secure Hospital, to be populated using the list in Rampton Secure Hospital and Category:People detained in State Hospital, Carstairs for State Hospital, which is the equivalent for Scotland and Northern Ireland]]; and I expect there are similar institutions in other countries.  These are hospitals for what were once called the "criminally insane".  These are for people who have a serious and are a danger to the public, including those who are found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.  People can also be detained in other kinds of hospital, by being "sectioned", but we are unlikely to need categories for such people, as being sectioned is a common result of severe uncontrolled mental illness.  We do not normally categorise people for being mentally ill, unless they have done something very serious as a result.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:14, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 16:30, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Further comment (vote above) -- Any person who is "sectioned" as being a "danger to him/herself or others" will be detained in a psychiatric hospital or a psychiatric ward in a general hospital, but such detention is NN and something we would not normally categorise. This category is intended a particular class of people who commit would would normally be serious crimes, but due to their mental state lack the necessary mens rea.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:11, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per Peterkingiron, as a valid sub-cat of the other parents Category:Psychiatric hospitals in the United Kingdom and Category:Prisoners and detainees of the United Kingdom. Populate with a sub-cat for Rampton as he also suggests. State Hospital only appears to have one inmate with an article so I have added that bio directly into the nominated category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:22, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Withdraw as I notice the category has meanwhile been populated slightly better. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:41, 5 March 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:History of psychiatry

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:23, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Nominator's rationale: merge, redirect and purge, the category mostly consists of biographies of psychiatrists and psychotherapists that do not belong in a history category. When discounting the biographies, the type of content in this category is very similar as in its parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:History of psychiatry to Category:History of mental health
 * Support that. The biographies will need to be removed manually by moving them to a more appropriate category.  Peterkingiron (talk) 19:06, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 06:30, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * support per nom. The topics are nigh synonymous anyway. - Xurizuri (talk) 01:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment While all history of psychiatry is history of mental health, the opposite is not true. I am not personally opposed to psychiatry and consider outright rejection of the field (as opposed to mere criticism of some of the practices/trends within it) to be woo, but ultimately the amount of "dissenters" is too notable to fully sideline. --181.115.61.74 (talk) 04:10, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Psychiatry is not synonymous with the much broader category of mental health. Psychiatry refers to a specific medical specialism with its own history of professionalisation, practice and knowledge production. To be honest, I'm not sure what the history of mental health is - it's a much newer term. The history of mental illness would perhaps be easier to define but it would not be the same as the history of psychiatry, despite the obvious overlap. FiachraByrne (talk) 23:03, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't particularly disagree with the point but I do note that your critique is more with the vague naming of the target, rather than with the merge itself. Even without the biographies, the articles in the category are entirely within mental health, and the assignment to this child is highly arbitrary. I do also question how many of them are "history of" but that's yet another issue. --Xurizuri (talk) 13:38, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Question: Would a reverse merge and purge of biographies make more sense, per FiachraByrne's reasoning?  bibliomaniac 1  5  03:49, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Fair question. The only article that does not belong in Category:History of psychiatry is Mad Pride but that may be moved to Category:History of mental disorders instead. For now, purging and merging (in either direction) are the most important. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:34, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  12:08, 22 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Psychiatry is what FiachraByrne says - a medical specialisation, I fail to see any direct correlation to the very generic term 'mental health' - Marcocapelle's comments are helpful...JarrahTree 07:32, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose - one is broader than the other. I can imagine historical psychiatrist bios that would fit former but not latter as well Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:54, 26 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Grand strategy wargames

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 04:42, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Nominator's rationale: merge, not a sufficiently differentiating characteristic, most war games - except video games - will satisfy the definition of a grand strategy war game. Note that the category description is much more restrictive than the article (as it excludes abstract war games), but that should probably not be the case. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:04, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Grand strategy wargames to Category:Wargames
 * Propose merging Category:Grand strategy board games to Category:Board wargames
 * Oppose. Many wargames are not grand strategy. For instance Category:Tactical wargames are by definition not grand strategy. Nor are Mage Wars Arena or Kriegsspiel present in Category:Wargames. Grand strategy is distinctly different from lower level tactics. Dividing wargames by being tactical or strategic is a defining characteristic.-- Mvqr (talk) 11:22, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. this is a totally valid classification for these games. ---Sm8900 (talk) 🌍 18:55, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * oppose there are also several grand strategy games that would not qualify as war games. No. Nightenbelle (talk) 18:11, 9 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.