Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 February 28



Category:Zionist Women

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: manual upmerge to Category:Zionists, Category:Women activists and Category:Jewish women as appropriate. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:50, 30 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:Zionist Women to option A Category:Zionist women or option B Category:Women Zionists
 * Nominator's rationale: The capitalization needs to be fixed if the name is kept. Rather than putting this through a speedy rename, I thought I'd bring it here to determine which is preferable,  or . Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:34, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * option A, to match patent category Category:Jewish women. Dimadick (talk) 16:23, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm not sure these need to be segregated by sex, but isn't this also an WP:OPINIONCAT? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:13, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Possibly this is a larger concern with . Ideally, only activists are being categorized this way. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:36, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes the whole tree might be revisited. As for renaming this category in particular, both A and B are good renaming options, but upmerge is the better option per WP:OCEGRS. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:30, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Upmerge to all three parents per WP:OCEGRS — there is no zionist men, male zionists, or female zionists.
 * Upmerge to all three parents per WP:OCEGRS. --Just N. (talk) 16:27, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It is recommendable to merge manually because not all three parent categories are applicable to every article. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:44, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Upmerge this is not a case were ERGS rules justify having a sex specific category. If the parent categories are not applicable, why in the world are they parents?John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:02, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment (nom). I do not oppose an upmerging. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:01, 16 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Bishops by nationality

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge/rename as a first step; there is agreement that further work/nominations will be required. Pinging . Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:59, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Roman Catholic bishops by nationality to Category:Roman Catholic bishops by country
 * Propose renaming Category:United Methodist bishops by nationality to Category:United Methodist bishops by country
 * Propose renaming Category:Eastern Catholic bishops by nationality to Category:Eastern Catholic bishops by country
 * Propose renaming Category:Lutheran bishops by nationality to Category:Lutheran bishops by country
 * Propose merging Category:Eastern Orthodox bishops by nationality to Category:Eastern Orthodox bishops by country
 * Propose merging Category:Bishops by nationality to Category:Bishops by country
 * Propose merging Category:Anglican bishops by nationality to Category:Anglican bishops by country
 * Nominator's rationale: For bishops location is far more significant than nationality, and its not clear what nationality is meant - is it the nationality of individual bishops, or the nationality of the diocese? What is clear is that these two categories confuse many editors.  There will  need to be considerable adjustments to the subcategories if this is agreed.  I think Bishops in Foo  is clearer than Fooish bishops.   For individuals where their nationality is significant, and different from location, we could use Fooish clergy.  Rathfelder (talk) 19:48, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment - there are a lot more bishops: see Category:American bishops. This nom, if fully implemented, would clog up cfd for an eternity. I think a bishop is both 'fooish' and 'in bar': John Sentamu is Ugandan (and presumably British) and seems reasonably categorised. (I expect a bishop in a country will be obliged to become a citizen thereof.) Oculi (talk) 20:51, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The difference between these trees really is in people who migrated from the country of birth to the country where they became a bishop. As nominator pointed out in another discussion, "FOOIAN bishop" for the country of birth is factually wrong. Having said that, this nomination does not take the right order imho. We cannot merge e.g.Category:Eastern Orthodox bishops by nationality when we have not dissolved its by-nationality subcategories yet or when we are not dissolving them simultaneously with the top category. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:58, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * It is true that this is quite a complex undertaking, but there seems to be a good deal of agreement that it is desireable. I think the main argument for me is that the categories are not self explanatory and so dont work as two separate hierarchies.  The vast majority of the nationality categories I've looked at (and these may be unrepresentative, but still a significant number) are largely populated by expatriate/emigrant clergy categorised by their diocese.  Some of them stay for good and some go back home.  Not a single one has mentioned citizenship.  I certainly dont see any suggestion that they are obliged to change their citizenship.  John Sentamu is unusual in that he came from Africa to the UK and so is notable for that.  Thousands went the other way and were therefore not notable as migrants.   Rathfelder (talk) 00:13, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment -- We should aim mainly to have categories of the target type, which tend to be categories of bishops by diocese, where they served, which is what is important. There is also scope for categories for individual bishops by national origin where this is not where they were serving.  This applies to missionary bishops in Africa (often British for Anglicans; Irish for Catholics), including a recent Dean of Lichfield, who had been a bishop somewhere in Africa; earlier there were a lot more.  John Sentamu was (I think) ordained while in exile; I expect that he was naturalised British.  There was also a Bishop of Rochester, who was a convert from Islam and probably of Pakistani extraction.  These are worth picking out by having a separate tree for bishops serving other than in the country of their birth (or something like that).  However, this is probably a case that will have to be kept open when there is an agreed solution, for manual alteration of categories in such multi-national cases: it can only be closed when some one can assure us that all cases such as Sentamu's have been appropriately recategorised.  Peterkingiron (talk) 00:44, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Support This goes against my votes in all previous, similar nominations. But I've come round to seeing that nationality is too problematic and that geography (of the diocese) is much more reliable. Let us cater for Irish men who go to Australia and become bishops there or Englishmen who go to Darkest Africa and become bishops there as exceptions with suitable "Ex pat bishops of Foo" categories. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:25, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment whatever is picked, please make it time-period agnostic and differentiate between ethnicity and citizenship. Imagine a subject of the Hapsburg Monarchy who was an ethnic Ukrainian and became a priest in in Poland and later a bishop in the the Soviet Union before escaping to Canada, not serving as bishop there but becoming a Canadian citizen, then retiring to the USA but never becoming an American citizen.  This person could be called a  Austrian- Ukrainian- Polish- Soviet-, Canadian- or American- bishop, but with a slightly different meaning in each case (birthplace, ethnicity, citizenship, place of work while bishop, etc.).  Be clear which one you intend! --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 16:29, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * think we should deal primarily with denomination and location, as far as bishops go. I dont think you can become a bishop without being a priest first, at least not in modern times, so if we want to categorise them by nationality or ethnicity they can be dealt with that way.  NB in the 19th century, at least in the Anglican churches, almost all bishops outside the UK were expatriates.  The notable ones are the first bishops of local origin.  I've been through more than a thousand articles about bishops now and not a single one has said anything about changing nationality.   Rathfelder (talk) 23:11, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I think the nom. is well done as I think the diocese is more important than the citizenship of the bishop. However, we have parallel trees for the Roman Catholics: Category:Roman Catholic bishops by nationality (which is presumably by citizenship, and which subcategories can also be subcategories of nationality by occupation, etc.) and Category:Roman Catholic bishops by country (which is presumably by diocese and can be put as subcategories of people from type categories). I think that creating that parallel for the other denominations is preferable per Rathfelder's comment (excluding ethnicity) and merging Category:Roman Catholic bishops by country to Category:Roman Catholic bishops by diocese makes clear that it is where they minister not what papers they carry that is being categorized. And make the other denominations match that formulation. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:23, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree with Carlossuarez46 but I havent done much work on other denominations yet. There could be significant differences.  But more importantly I dont want this exercise to become impossibly large and complex.  Rathfelder (talk) 20:03, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * when reading the above comments I would conclude there is support in principle. But this nomination can only be a very modest starting point. So what is your further plan? Marcocapelle (talk) 20:34, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I was thinking of examining individual countries and nationalities to see what the implications would be. The three denomination categories above for renaming should be relatively straightforward, as should most small countries, but I suspect the USA and the Roman Catholic Church may be more difficult. For many smaller countries we can just rename Fooish bishops to Bishops in Foo. If the principle is agreed this can be done speedily.  Then we will need to think about the implications for other sorts of Christian clergy.   Sadly I dont get the impression that most editors who write ecclesiastical articles are very interested in categorisation, which is a pity as I certainly dont regard myself as an expert in this area. Rathfelder (talk) 21:02, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok then support despite my earlier objection against the wrong order of nominating. The situation of having a nationality and a country category of the same country as siblings will only be temporary. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:25, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Happily not many countries have both a nationality and a country category. Rathfelder (talk) 15:56, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:09, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Qualified support — but where the diocese is known within the country, they should be containerized there instead. This is a good first step.
 * Bishops are almost all categorised by diocese, and the dioceses should all be then put into a country - though because people get confused between countries and nationality some will need to be altered. This is more of an issue for Category:Bishops by century. Rathfelder (talk) 10:59, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I think we should also change the country categories so that they are like "Bishops in Foo", to make it clearer that this is not about nationality. Rathfelder (talk) 10:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Agree with this too. It also avoids the use of demonyns which I abhor. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:20, 6 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Procedural oppose If we want to do this we need to nominate both these and all the child categories as a group. If we are going to go for the targets we need to rename all the child categories to use in, and we need to do this all at once and have all the categories tagged so as many people as possible will be notified. We cannot do this to the parent and not rename the child categories to conform.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:04, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I dont think that is a practical possibility. Nor do I think it necessary.  Because "Nationality" is ambiguous in this context - its not clear whether it is supposed to be the nationality of the bishop or of the diocese - most of the subcategories are a mix of the two, and far more are the nationality of the diocese than of the individual (where they are different).  The point of the nomination is to try and unscramble the mess.

If the principle is agreed I am happy to work on individual countries and leave the top level mergers for a bit.Rathfelder (talk) 00:17, 10 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Invincible Overlord songs

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 20:58, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting invincible overlord songs


 * Nominator's rationale: 9 of the entries are redirects to the artist's page. The remaining entry Bathwater (song) is not a redirect, it is a song by No Doubt which was then remixed by Invincible Overlord. The redirects serve no navigational assistance, the question remains whether remixes should appear in the XXX songs category? Richhoncho (talk) 19:26, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete – You're right. I apologize for even making this category in the first place. For the record, I only added Bathwater (song) because the remix charted in various territories, and I would not normally include those categories for song remixes. Carbrera (talk) 21:02, 28 February 2021 (UTC).


 * Delete per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:41, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom --Just N. (talk) 16:31, 7 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Judges of the Tripura High Court

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 21:03, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Judges of the Tripura High Court to Category:Justices of the Tripura High Court
 * Nominator's rationale: Indian HC judges are called Justices technically. Judge is a term used for subordinate judiciary there. Rahul Bott (talk) 17:07, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Support. Although it is not technically incorrect to refer to justices of any court as judges (justices being a type of judge), we have uniformly in other categories reflected the use of "Justices" as formal titles for high court judges. BD2412  T 04:16, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:42, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. --Just N. (talk) 16:32, 7 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Welsh Christian ministers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:56, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Welsh Christian ministers to Category:Welsh Protestant ministers and clergy
 * Nominator's rationale: A redundant duplication of scope. Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:28, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Are ministers, clergy, and priests not much the same thing? Rathfelder (talk) 20:01, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom, these are all Protestant ministers. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:11, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Suggest merging both to Category:Welsh Christian clergy, which can cover Catholic priests as well. The target is mainly the Anglican Church of Wales (except the evangelical category); the subject non-conformist denominations.  I do not think we need the split.  Peterkingiron (talk) 00:48, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose this alternative. The target is a valid member of Category:Protestant ministers and clergy by nationality and after the merge as proposed it will contain a multitude of Protestant denominations. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:03, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:20, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment The category seems to include people whose title is 'minister' which is not the only title held by Protestant clergy (see Category:Welsh priests which includes the subcategory Category:Anglican priests and a bunch of folks who seem to be from other Protestant denominations. I don't think that a category for those folks who have a particular title (minister) vs. another analogous (priest or clergyman/clergywoman) one is appropriate per WP:SHAREDNAME. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:33, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge as nominated. They should already be individually categorized by denomination, no need for over-specialization. Don't see a need for distinguishing Anglicans from others at this level, but there is a well developed tree separating Protestants from various Catholic variants. While many evangelicals view Anglicans and Lutherans and Presbyterians as warmed over Catholics, we don't need to appease them here.
 * Merge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 16:33, 7 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

People from Magnesia (regional unit)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 06:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Almyros (municipality) to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Anavra to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Almyros to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Pteleos to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Rigas Feraios (municipality) to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Feres, Magnesia to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from South Pelion to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Milies to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Sipiada to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Volos (municipality) to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Agria to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Artemida, Magnesia to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Nea Anchialos to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Nea Ionia, Magnesia to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Zagora-Mouresi to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Mouresi to Category:People from Magnesia (regional unit)
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, this concerns categorization by 3rd and 4th level administrative divisions of Greece, leading to a endless series of single-article or 2-article categories. The proposal is to merge to 2nd level administrative division, except cities and larger towns, in this case except Volos (125,000 people), Sourpi (3,000 people) and Zagora, Greece (2,000 people). The nomination includes Category:People from Milies with 5 people however the last one is actually from a village in the neighbourhood. This is follow-up on this earlier nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:44, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:28, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge for Now with no objection to recreating later if any of the individual towns can grow to 5+ direct articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:20, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge all — as a good start, and we'll purge the birthplaces later.
 * Merge all per nom. --Just N. (talk) 16:34, 7 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

People from Messenia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:55, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Kalamata (municipality) to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Thouria to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Messini (municipality) to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Androusa to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Oichalia, Messenia to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Andania to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Dorio to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Meligalas to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Pylos-Nestoras to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Koroni to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Methoni, Messenia to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Pylos to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Trifylia to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Aetos, Messenia to Category:People from Messenia
 * Propose merging Category:People from Filiatra to Category:People from Messenia
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, this concerns categorization by 3rd and 4th level administrative divisions of Greece, leading to a endless series of single-article or 2-article categories. The proposal is to merge to 2nd level administrative division, except cities and larger towns, in this case Kalamata (55,000 people), Messini (6,000 people), Gargalianoi (5,500 people) and Kyparissia‎ (6,000 people). The nomination includes Category:People from Koroni with 5 articles, however 2 of which are about people from villages in the neighbourhood. This is follow-up on this earlier nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:33, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The area from Koroni's center to Agios Georgios is continuously inhabited, just pointing it out for future reference. Falanthi does seem to be dependent on Koroni, but is a different settlement. --Antondimak (talk) 14:42, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:29, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Agios Georgios, Pyrgos is also a village of its own. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:01, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * As I have said it is difficult to ascertain which communities are independent settlements and which are neighbourhoods (which is partly why I said municipal units should be used). In this case you can check Google Maps. The area from Koroni's center to Agios Georgios is continuously inhabited. --Antondimak (talk) 15:18, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Koroni/Merge Rest for Now Category:People from Koroni has 5 articles; No objection to recreating other ones if they ever get to 5+ articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:26, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge all — as a good start, and we'll purge the birthplaces later.
 * Merge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 16:35, 7 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

People from Pella (regional unit)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 06:37, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Almopia to Category:People from Pella (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Edessa, Greece (municipality) to Category:People from Pella (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Vegoritida to Category:People from Pella (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Pella (municipality) to Category:People from Pella (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Krya Vrysi, Pella to Category:People from Pella (regional unit)
 * Propose merging Category:People from Pella to Category:People from Pella (regional unit)
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, this concerns categorization by 3rd and 4th level administrative divisions of Greece, leading to a endless series of single-article or 2-article categories. The proposal is to merge to 2nd level administrative division, except cities and larger towns, in this case Giannitsa (30,000 people), Edessa, Greece (19,000 people) and Aridaia (7,000 people). This is follow-up on this earlier nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:26, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Pella has 20 members, most of them ancients, since it was the capital of ancient Macedonia. --Antondimak (talk) 14:34, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I currently have no intention of nominating Category:Ancient Pellaeans. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:56, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Then why nominate Category:People from Pella? It is a populated place with 20 members. If, instead of being ancient, 19 out of those people were sportpeople, and "Sportspeople from Pella" was made, would "People from Pella" by upmerged? It is a similar situation. --Antondimak (talk) 15:17, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * There is only one article directly in the category, Krste Misirkov and he has nothing to do with ancient people at a royal court. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:14, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * He is from the same area, and that's how he is categorised. There are 20 people from Pella in Wikipedia (at least those currently categorised). I don't see how 19 of them being ancient makes the category non-viable. The reason the subcategory exists is to make this difference clearer, but it doesn't influence the parent category. --Antondimak (talk) 21:39, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The alternative to avoiding that Krste Misirkov remains alone is upmerging the ancient category but I (still) think that this is the worse option. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what the problem is with the category right now. It doesn't have 1 member, it has 20. It's just that 19 of them are further categorised because of another similar attribute (the time during which they lived). It's like when we categorise people from a place based on their occupation. We don't delete the category later for being small, just because we created more subcategories and there are less direct members. (I also just translated the lead of an article about an MP from Pella, so Misirkov isn't alone anymore). --Antondimak (talk) 22:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The parent category doesn't aid navigation from my perspective because there is so little direct content. Ultimately, it not important whether the issue is WP:SMALLCAT or WP:OC more generally. -RevelationDirect (talk) 01:32, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Even container categories are a thing, because it seems to be generally agreed that categories like this do aid navigation, but whatever. If it's necessary, merging "Ancient Pellans" to "People from Pella" would be better. --Antondimak (talk) 07:16, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:29, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge All These small categories or empty layers do not aid navigation. No objection to recreating any town that gets up to 5+ direct articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:29, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge all — as a good start, and we'll purge the birthplaces later.
 * 'Merge all per nom. --Just N. (talk) 16:36, 7 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Heterostracan incertae sedis
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 March 12%23Category:Heterostracan incertae sedis

Category:Angiosperm incertae sedis
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 March 12%23Category:Angiosperm incertae sedis

Category:Prokaryotes taxonomy

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 20:52, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Prokaryotes taxonomy to Category:Prokaryote taxonomy
 * Nominator's rationale: Grammar correction. This will also bring the category in line with and, which use singular. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 (𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 14:10, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:55, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Support


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Spirituals

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:53, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Spirituals to Category:African-American spiritual songs
 * Nominator's rationale: Newly-created category that largely duplicates existing . There could be an argument for a C2D reverse merger given the main article is at Spirituals and starts with "Spirituals (also known as Negro spirituals, Spiritual music, or African-American spirituals)". However Spiritual is a dab so there is an anti-dab argument in favour of the longer title for the category. Le Deluge (talk) 12:04, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge or reverse merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:12, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge Same scope. Dimadick (talk) 21:12, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge somehow perhaps Category:Spirituals (songs). Peterkingiron (talk) 00:51, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge Same scope. --Just N. (talk) 16:39, 7 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Canadian Anglican Church in North America members

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. All that was left to merge was . Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:52, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Canadian Anglican Church in North America members to Category:Canadian Anglicans
 * Nominator's rationale: As far as I can see the church is called Anglican Church of Canada. Rathfelder (talk) 12:03, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The Anglican Church in North America is a different church. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:10, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose - the Anglican Church in North America is indeed a different church. All the members of Category:Canadian Anglican Church in North America members are in fact Bishops so a rename to Category:Canadian bishops of the Anglican Church in North America would be a good idea ('member' is not defining). There is also Category:American Anglican Church in North America members (mostly bishops) and Category:Bishops of the Anglican Church in North America so there is some confusion in the present set-up. Oculi (talk) 13:30, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * This church is not organized as a confederation of national churches so I'm not too sure we need to diffuse Category:Bishops of the Anglican Church in North America by nationality or country. In fact I am also not too sure if the nomination should be discarded. After all, Category:Dutch Calvinist and Reformed Christians also contains 25 undiffused articles about people of different Calvinist churches. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:04, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Category:Dutch Calvinist and Reformed Christians are all Dutch (nationality). Andy Lines is British: " Missionary Bishop to Europe of the Anglican Church in North America". A bishop has a diocese, which in general will be in one country. Category:Canadian Anglicans is a subcat of Category:Anglican Church of Canada, which these bishops are not. William Anderson (bishop of Caledonia) is complicated: perhaps the category system cannot cope with his cv. Oculi (talk) 17:15, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * On further investigation these are mostly Anglican bishops who have left the Anglican Communion and joined the Anglican Church in North America. We have various converts categories none of which quite fits. Oculi (talk) 02:18, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 14:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose This is a different church from the Anglican Church of Canada and in fact has a different theology, since they oppose same-sex unions.Mistico Dois (talk) 19:45, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your assistance. It wasnt at all clear from the articles that it is a different church so I do think we need a Category:Canadian bishops of the Anglican Church in North America and I withdraw this suggestion.   Rathfelder (talk) 20:06, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Ive created Category:Canadian bishops of the Anglican Church in North America and actually all the members of  Category:Canadian Anglican Church in North America members  were bishops.  Rathfelder (talk) 17:31, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete/Upmerge — now that the bishops have been purged, there is nothing else in the category.
 * Merge to Category:Canadian Anglicans per WA Simpson. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:05, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Canadian Anglicans per WA Simpson. --Just N. (talk) 16:42, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose We need to stop treating groups with the same name as if they are the same group, in this case they are very much not the same group.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:06, 9 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Living assistant bishops in the Church of England

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 06:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting living assistant bishops in the church of england


 * Nominator's rationale: A temporary status. We dont have any other categories for living people by occupation. Rathfelder (talk) 10:42, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. I was about to propose renaming to Category:Assistant bishops in the Church of England but all of the articles are about bishops, so that was not needed either. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:43, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:30, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per Marcocapelle or Category:Honorary assistant bishops in the Church of England or possibly disperse. In sampling, I found this was a miscellany of (1) Bishops of small churches in Europe in Communion with CofE but not part of an Anglican province (2) retired CofE bishops who still minister as bishops (doing confirmations and institutions), sometimes having been a missionary overseas (3) possibly one or two more.  Peterkingiron (talk) 19:51, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
 * As far as I can see, all these were assistant bishops in the Church of England, i.e. all of them are in group (2). Marcocapelle (talk) 22:03, 5 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 16:43, 7 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Military Karl-Friedrich Merit Order

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 06:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Recipients of the Military Karl-Friedrich Merit Order
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:‎Grand crosses of the Military Karl-Friedrich Merit Order
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Commanders of the Military Karl-Friedrich Merit Order‎
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Knights of the Military Karl-Friedrich Merit Order‎
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Recipients of the Military Karl-Friedrich Merit Medal‎
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD-All, WP:OVERLAPCAT-2, WP:TRIVIALCAT-3, WP:PERFCAT-4)
 * The Military Karl-Friedrich Merit Order was ostensibly a military award of the German Grand Duchy of Baden although its actual usage was broader:
 * 1: Soldiers from Baden: I could imagine this group being defined by the award but, in practice, it get's mentioned in passing and the Iron Cross is more prominent (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7).
 * 2: Local Royals: These are already under either Category:Princes of Baden or Category:Grand Dukes of Baden and are not defined by the award (8, 9, 10, 11).
 * 3: Foreign Male Royals who Married into the Baden Royal Family: Not even close to being defining (12, 13, 14, 15).
 * 4: De Facto Campaign Medal: Some foreign career soldiers fought briefly in Baden (16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21).
 * 5: No Clear Connection to Baden: This isn't an outlier, the almost half of the articles mention the award but make no other mention of Baden. Maybe it was a diplomatic award, maybe it was given to allies, but whatever the reasons it's not defining because it doesn't even come up. (22-39)
 * There wasn't a list so I created one right here in the main article for any readers interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:06, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete, obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:40, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and WP:OCAWARD. --Just N. (talk) 16:44, 7 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Bialik Prize recipients

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 06:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Bialik Prize recipients
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)
 * The city government of Tel Aviv, Israel gives out a pair of Bialik Prizes each year, one for Hebrew literature an one for Jewish thought. (The top career award for both specialties is likely the national Israel Prize, which has specific categories for both Hebrew literature and Jewish thought.) This local award is typically listed in passing with other honours so it doesn't seem defining in articles like Moshe Shamir, Moshe Idel or any others you want to click on. The category contents are already listified right here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:06, 28 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Background We previously deleted other Tel Aviv municipal awards here, here and here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:06, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:41, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and WP:OCAWARD. --Just N. (talk) 16:44, 7 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.