Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 January 17



Category:Sami

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. I have kept redirects. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:26, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Sami to Category:Sámi
 * Nominator's rationale: To match up with the parent article, Sámi people. This would also affect the sub-categories. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 22:40, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Nominator's rationale: To match up with the parent article, Sámi people. This would also affect the sub-categories. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 22:40, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Support - the subcategories will need tagging. Oculi (talk) 00:47, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, provided that User:IceWelder lists and tags the subcategories as well. It would not make much sense if only the top category would be renamed. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:35, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I listed them above with the occasional grammar/style fix (ex. "Sami language terms" -> "Sámi-language terms"), hopefully having missed none. I will tag all of them shortly. Regards, IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 09:51, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * They should all be tagged now. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 13:31, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:33, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Note: if this is approved, the old names should all be redirected. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:14, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Is that really necessary? I would expect if, after renaming, someone searches for Sami, that Sámi would pop up immediately. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:33, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, ASCII redirects to diacritics is the first standard case of WP:Category redirects that should be kept. It helps when people don't know quick ways to type the accent, or don't know beforehand which categories use it. WP:HOTCAT will substitute the target of any redirect, and if a redirected category is typed into an article, then a bot will transfer the new article to the target category.
 * Although a lot of articles have recently been renamed with the diacritic, apparently at the request of user:IceWelder, many instances in the text still have the unaccented "Sami", e.g. at the list at Sámi languages. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:26, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The moves you mention have been reverted pending further discussion. I wasn't aware that several moves were made unilaterally, only saw the disparity and wanted to bring in some consistency. Most of these moves were done by . That said, as the primary article still stands at Sámi people, I still support renaming the categories, but the discussion could be put on hold until the RM discussion is resolved. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 23:33, 20 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose, Sámi doesn't seem to take precedence over Sami in an English dictionary. Geschichte (talk) 21:46, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Which ... has nothing to do with anything. The majority of modern English-language RS on the matter use Sámi; see related thread at RMTR (which also links to previous article-level discussions). See also WP:TSF.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:45, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support, modulo what I said at WP:RMTR (namely that there conceivably could be some specific exceptions that may arise, based on the orthography in the particular dialect, but this will only come up when the variance is reflected in the majority of English-language sources on that specific sub-topic).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:45, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support -- We should use the correct diacriticals, but leave cat-redirects as these are credible source terms. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:12, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Journalists killed by a mob

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:53, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting journalists killed by a mob


 * Nominator's rationale: Only 2 of them, both already in appropriate subcategories of Category:Assassinated journalists Rathfelder (talk) 22:11, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom, as a small and superfluous category. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 05:59, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:36, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:35, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Categorization by manner of death is often defining, but not categorization by the group responsible. Dimadick (talk) 13:23, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Trade Union Federations on a global scale

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: deleted. Shushugah (talk) 20:37, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting trade union federations on a global scale


 * Nominator's rationale: New category duplicates scope of existing Category:International and regional union federations czar  18:37, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete I created this, but after reading also the talk page discussion on Category:International and regional union federations I see why a joint/shared category was made. I cleaned up/moved all the old categories to Category:International and regional union federations and this can be immediately deleted. Shushugah (talk) 18:41, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * the quickest solution is if you tag the category page with . Marcocapelle (talk) 20:30, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Cities and towns in Jajapur district

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:53, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Cities and towns in Jajapur district to Category:Cities and towns in Jajpur district
 * Nominator's rationale: Wikipedia uses Jajpur everywhere, this is creating confusion. Common name is Jajpur Walrus Ji (talk) 18:36, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Speedy rename per Jajpur district and Category:Jajpur district. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:33, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Speedy per WP:C2A, typographic and spelling fixes. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:36, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Speedy rename per Jajpur district and Category:Jajpur district. — Thaejas (talk) 07:33, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Murdered criminals

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:31, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting murdered criminals


 * Propose deleting murdered serial killers


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. Not commonly and consistently expected as a professional hazard or qualification. There may have been many years between the occupation and the death, making the link even weaker.


 * Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children.


 * Category:Murdered mobsters‎ remains; it is so large, it will have to be dealt with separately.


 * See also: related rationale about suicides by occupation:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 28
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 18:16, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Not sure about this one. Quite a few of them were murdered by the police or by fellow criminals. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:41, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Leaning Toward Keep While I'm on board with separating being murdered from careers, murder seems to be an occupational risk for at least a subset of these articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:34, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep as distinct from the spate of 'murdered X' snow-deletes we've gotten here lately. Murdered criminals are much more likely to have their deaths connected with their field than many of those. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 06:01, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per Vaticidalprophet.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 10:43, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete "murdered" as used here is ill-defined as several have never been solved and their killing well have been in self-defense or otherwise justifiable. We have many "deaths in custody" categories which accurately portray what is essential in the connection; being convicted of a crime and years later and unrelated to that crime one is killed is a trivial intersection. Take today's honoree as an example: he was convicted of driving without a license in 1960, found to have violated probation and sent to prison for that offense and years later assassinated by a sniper's bullet in 1968; in Wikipedia parlance a "murdered criminal". smh Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:42, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Their criminal activities are often the cause of their deaths. Dimadick (talk) 13:25, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Murdered nobility

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:52, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting murdered nobility


 * Propose deleting murdered serbian nobility


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. Not commonly and consistently expected as a professional hazard or qualification. There may have been many years between the occupation and the death, making the link even weaker.


 * Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children.


 * Category:Assassinated nobility will remain.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:55, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:41, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Since assassinations are pulled out, everything here is a non-defining intersection. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:31, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:43, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Murdered royalty

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:35, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting murdered royalty


 * Propose deleting murdered indian royalty


 * Propose deleting murdered indian monarchs


 * Propose deleting murdered monarchs


 * Propose deleting murdered chinese emperors


 * Propose deleting murdered persian monarchs


 * Propose deleting murdered russian monarchs


 * Propose deleting murdered serbian monarchs


 * Propose deleting murdered royalty of macedonia (ancient kingdom)


 * Propose deleting murdered russian royalty


 * Propose deleting murdered roman empresses


 * Propose deleting murdered serbian royalty


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. Not commonly and consistently expected as a professional hazard or qualification. There may have been many years between the occupation and the death, making the link even weaker.


 * Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children.


 * Category:Assassinated royalty will remain.


 * See also: related rationale about suicides by occupation:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 23
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:39, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I wonder if they shouldn't all be merged to Category:Assassinated royalty or renamed to a subcat of it. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:44, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I have checked a number of articles and some were murdered by royal family members, others were murdered by a crowd. Neither of which really satisfies "assassination". Marcocapelle (talk) 12:25, 24 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose There is a clear connection between the office they held and the manner of their death. Dimadick (talk) 13:27, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose -- Murder is likely to relate to their royal status. Both Edward II of England and Henry VI of England died in prison in suspicious circumstances that may have been murder according to modern jurispridence.  I suspect this will apply in many cases in other countries.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:23, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose, regardless the exact circumstances, these murders are nearly always related to their royal status. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:25, 24 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Journalists killed while covering the War in Afghanistan (2001–present)

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus, though it was trending towards do not rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:38, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Journalists killed while covering the War in Afghanistan (2001–present) to Category:Journalists killed while covering wars in Afghanistan
 * Nominator's rationale: There hasnt just been one war in Afghanistan. No obvious reason to exclude the journalists killed in the earlier wars. Rathfelder (talk) 15:49, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose, this is a sizeable intersection of the parents Category:Civilian casualties in the War in Afghanistan (2001–present) and Category:War correspondents of the War in Afghanistan (2001–present) among others; there is also a List of journalists killed during the War in Afghanistan (2001–present). For journalists killed in earlier wars there is another existing parent, Category:Journalists killed in Afghanistan. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:42, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It is proposed to delete Category:Journalists killed in Afghanistan. Rathfelder (talk) 22:14, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I see, that is part of Categories_for_discussion/Log/2021_January_12. However, Category:Journalists killed while covering military conflicts is not being deleted. If that deletion goes ahead… ah, you have created a sibling Category:Journalists killed while covering the Soviet–Afghan War, containing the other former members of Category:Journalists killed in Afghanistan. I think that is all that is needed. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:59, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * There are only 2 in Category:Journalists killed while covering the Soviet–Afghan War but if we are content with small categories here I can withdraw this proposal. Rathfelder (talk) 11:05, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose The scope of the suggested title is overly vague. Afghanistan has centuries of history. Dimadick (talk) 13:29, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support also merge in Category:Journalists killed while covering the Soviet–Afghan War -- This has two articles, which is too small to keep. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:28, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I cant see any articles about journalists killed in earlier wars. Rathfelder (talk) 00:01, 24 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Economy by industry

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. The strength of the arguments made by  and  are far more convincing than those in opposition to this merge. There is little utility in keeping the categories separated. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:20, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Economy by industry to Category:Industries (economics)
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per actual content, the category contains industries. "Economy by industry" is not what the category contains. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:29, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose If you look at the actual content, it contains WP:TOPICCATs that describe very different economic concepts but grouped by industry. Take for example Category:Computer industry which contains e.g. Category:Computer-related trade shows (trade shows), Category:Vaporware (products) or Moore's second law (economic rule) which are not about industries at all. --S.K. (talk) 14:39, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose - the suggested merge doesn't work as the target is a set category and the subject is not. I would agree that the contents of Category:Economy by industry are not what the name suggests. I would suggest a rename to something like Category:Industry (economics) by type (subcat scheme for Category:Industry (economics)). Oculi (talk) 14:59, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: If the category should be renamed, if one looks at topic Category:Industry (economics), one finds e.g. subcategories like Category:Business organizations by industry or Category:Companies by industry. So Category:Economy by industry follows that pattern. More precise would be something like Category:Economic topics by industry, but that sounds somewhat awkward to me. --S.K. (talk) 16:12, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Renaming to Category:Industry (economics) by type is an acceptable alternative. It is not just economic topics by industry, it is all topics by industry. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:49, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I find the name Category:Industry (economics) by type not very convincing. An industry as such already is a classification of economic units (typically companies) according to some criteria, in other words it contains companies of a certain type. And on the other hand I don’t see which non-economic topic one would group meaningfully by industry. I’m open to other suggestions, but up to now have no alternative I like. --S.K. (talk) 03:22, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The original nomination satisfies that objection. I do not quite understand what is against it anyway: both the subcats and the articles are about industries, so why not have them together in one category? Marcocapelle (talk) 04:49, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the subcategories are WP:TOPICCATs containing “arbitrary” content related to an industry and not just articles describing industries. But a defining condition of WP:SETCATs like Category:Industries (economics) is that they themselves AND their subcategories only contain articles describing industries. --S.K. (talk) 06:16, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * So then it is no longer a strict set category. How bad is that? Marcocapelle (talk) 07:30, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * That the concept is broken and everyone relying on it might get problems. This applies in particular to bots but also humans that navigate the hierarchy might get confused if some subcategories like e.g. Category:Industries (economics) by country are set categories while e.g. Category:Toy industry is a topic category. --S.K. (talk) 08:15, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Separating articles from subcats is very artificial in this case. For example in article Cosmetic industry you find information about the cosmetic industry and in subCategory:Cosmetic industry you simply find more information about the cosmetic industry. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:53, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * But the set Category:Industries (economics) provides additional value. If you’ve followed the filling of the category, it involved quite a bit of work to collect all the articles ABOUT industries from the category tree below Category:Industry (economics). It depends on the usage pattern of the category. In your example a person is interested in the cosmetics industry, while in Category:Industries (economics) the user might be more interested in a overview of industries in general. The clear separation of the categories helps supporting both access patterns. --S.K. (talk) 09:33, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The overview as such has no value, categories exist for the sake of navigating between related content. In this case it is about content regarding industries. Whether the content is in an article or in a subcategory is entirely secondary. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:41, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Support. I'm tired of seeing categories for services industries or tourism placed as children of industry categories that are clearly for manufacturing. The proposed renaming would help to solve this problem. Examples: →→→→ (a string of empty categories serving little purpose), etc. Place Clichy (talk) 10:11, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Could you explain why the merge would help with the problem you describe? These categories we are talking about here are both for industries in the sense of industry (economics), not in the sense of industry (manufacturing). This discussion here is part of an overall effort to disambiguate the two meanings of the word industry that started with the split proposal at Talk:Industry (economics). The article split then continued with a split of the Category:Industry into Category:Industry (economics) and Category:Industry (manufacturing) after the discussion at Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 20. The Category:Industry (manufacturing) was later renamed to Category:Secondary sector of the economy after Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 29.
 * Your examples are IMHO “leftovers” where the disambiguation is not yet finished. Category:Industry in Andorra is a subcategory of Category:Industry by country which is again a subcategory of Category:Secondary sector of the economy. One would have to decide, for which meaning of industry the Category:Industry by country should stand for. If it’s industry in the sense of large scale manufacturing, the subcategories need to be cleaned up and the examples you give moved to the right subcategory of (only) the Category:Industry (economics). The alternative would be to give Category:Industry by country the meaning Industry (economics) and remove the parent Category:Secondary sector of the economy. (Maybe followed by a renaming.)
 * --S.K. (talk) 03:04, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I do not see any value in having articles about some topic and categories about the same topic parented elsewhere in the category tree. This is how the German Wikipedia is organized, but not the English Wikipedia. About the other point, as it stands now it seems to me that every country category in is suffering from what I described: parents related to second sector and manufacturing, and children related to third sector or service economies. Having a single parent clearly named Category:Economy by industry would help to solve this discrepancy. Place Clichy (talk) 22:37, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, then let’s try to sort this out:
 * You would keep Category:Economy by industry with the current parent categories Category:Industry (economics) and Category:Economies, which means “industry” in Category:Economy by industry is meant in the sense industry (economics). Correct? If so, you no longer support the current merge proposal?
 * You propose to make Category:Industry by country a subcategory of Category:Economy by industry. This amounts to using “industry” again in the sense industry (economics) for Category:Industry by country.
 * The future of the Category:Industries (economics) as a set category remains to be discussed. As mentioned before I do see value in having all articles about industries in one category and not spread out over a large category tree (even if “only” for navigational purposes), but that’s another discussion.
 * Does this sum up your point of view correctly?
 * --S.K. (talk) 03:52, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I would be in favour of a merge no matter the name, because it is an absurdity in our category system to have 2 categories for exactly the same topic. Again, we differ in this from the German Wikipedia.
 * I indeed would prefer it to be more clear when the terms industries or by industry are to be understood as industry (second sector) or industry (any economic sector). This mostly affect and its national subcategories Industry in Foo, which seems to refer at second sector if you look at its parent  and children, ,  and  but have been filled (mostly by User:Hmains) as if it was in fact . That's a problem. We may have an intermediate level of  (populated by categories named Economy of Foo by industry), similar to  and e.g. . Of course this is a consequence of  and , which go in the right direction.
 * I understand the need of having articles about all industries in one place. However per WP:EPONCAT there is no problem in having all these articles and all the eponymous categories together at the root of . It is even clearer in terms of diffusion: topic articles are at the root, and specific content in the subcategories. Another (and more sustainable) way to present all this set of articles together is a list article, so that articles are less likely to be added or removed with little to no control, among other advantadges (see WP:Categories, lists, and navigation templates).
 * Place Clichy (talk) 15:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * You’re saying that the English Wikipedia has the concept of a WP:SETCAT but even though the Template:Set category says
 * this is not how the concept is used in practice?
 * A look at the usage of the template suggests the concept set category is used widely (32724 usages of the template) but a cursory look at random examples suggests the statement above that subcategories should be set categories themselves is often not adhered to.
 * So how do we proceed forward:
 * We have at the top three categories that we should come to a conclusion about:
 * Category:Industry (economics): The WP:EPONCAT to Industry (economics) is a WP:TOPICCAT and the root of our hierarchy.
 * Category:Industries (economics): The WP:SETCAT collects articles about industries and is a child category of #1
 * Category:Economy by industry: The WP:TOPICCAT collects categories about industries and is a child category of #1
 * All of them use industry in the sense of industry (economics).
 * Once we know how that toplevel structure should be, we can sort out the subcategories and their content accordingly. In particular what the naming convention should be for the by country etc. subcategories. My impression is that we have a consensus that industry in those subcategories is to be used in the sense Industry (economics).
 * I‘d be glad if you/others could sketch their proposal for the top of the hierarchy.
 * --S.K. (talk) 07:09, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Not every category must be an exclusive set category or an exclusive topic category. If a set of articles and a set of topic subcategories are about the same topic, having them in one category helps readers to find all relevant information about the topic; and that is what categories are for. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Not every category must be an exclusive set category or an exclusive topic category. If a set of articles and a set of topic subcategories are about the same topic, having them in one category helps readers to find all relevant information about the topic; and that is what categories are for. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:White supremacist politicians

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:14, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting white supremacist politicians


 * Propose deleting american white supremacist politicians


 * Propose deleting white supremacist governors


 * Propose deleting american white supremacist governors


 * Nominator's rationale: Almost every politician from Europe and its diaspora communities could be included into one or more of these categories. As such and per WP:SUBJECTIVECAT, these are subjective. See Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_December_26, which is mentioned in the guidelines, as an example as to why these should be deleted. They also violate WP:OPINIONCAT and WP:BLP. User:Namiba 14:23, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 20:04, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. I have read some articles to check if there was an alternative more objective commonality between these politicians, but I could not define one. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:53, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment White-supremacy is less an opinion than a worldview (like one's political orientation, economic outlook, or religion). If these go, I would expect to see "socialist", "capitalist", "Catholic" and party affiliation categories to go as equally impelling action on their adherents. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:46, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * A subject might agree that they are Catholic or even a socialist in many cases, but rarely does anyone admit that they are a white supremacist. Terms like this are so loathed by most of society that even their supporters usually call themselves "racial realists" or a supporter of "European Identity Politics." George Washington owned hundreds of enslaved people of African descent. Does that make him a white supremacist? Abraham Lincoln publicly declared himself against "social and political equality of the white and black races" and organized the largest public execution of indigenous people in US history. Should he be categorized as a white supremacist? This is why categories like this cannot exist. There is far too much ambiguity and they are too controversial.--User:Namiba 12:19, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Category:American white supremacists currently includes 200 articles. If we're being consistent, should't it be deleted too? I do wonder about the individuals that are consistently defined as white supremacists though. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 14:21, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It is not nominated yet, can be done with this as a precedent.


 * Oppose "Almost every politician from Europe and its diaspora communities could be included int one or more of these categories." That is a reason to keep the category, as it means that it can be properly populated. Dimadick (talk) 13:31, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Except that would require sources to commonly and consistently define such persons as white supremacists, which currently seems unlikely. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 13:58, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Unsure. On the one hand, it seems logical to have a way to categorize open white-supremacist politicians like David Duke. On the other, the number of borderline cases seems likely to create more problems and disagreements than would be solved by keeping these categories. Categories for discussion/Log/2011 February 9 found support to exclude articles about individual people from Category:Racism and Category:Sexism, etc. Actually, there is a difference between racism and racists, white supremacy and white supremacists. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 14:45, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * People like David Duke are already categorized with a white supremacist organization (like the Ku Klux Klan). It is not necessary to have a category like this for such individuals.--User:Namiba 14:48, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Some are, but not all, for example Bull Connor and other "respectable" (for lack of a better word) white supremacists. Its a complex issue because "white supremacy" can refer to either a belief or a set of social practices. Despite initially favoring deletion, I'm now leaning toward having a category for persons espousing the latter, assuming support from reliable sources can be found. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 14:57, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Category:Segregationists is a definable category. We can clearly prove that Bull Connor or George Wallace favored racial segregation as a political strategy. As noted, white supremacy is a far more amorphous and similar to the racist people category mentioned in subjectivecat.--User:Namiba 15:34, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * In principle, I could support renaming the above to Category:American segregationist governors, Category:American segregationist politicians, Category:Segregationist governors, and Category:Segregationist politicians. But what about the parent Category:White supremacists as well as related labels such as Category:Fascists, Category:Neo-fascists, and so on? It seems like we need a larger discussion about contentious labels that are nonetheless sometimes well-referenced. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 01:17, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * While Category:Segregationists is better definable, I wonder if segregationalism was too widespread in the course of history to make this a useful category. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:04, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The same can be said for white supremacy. It's so broad that most politicians in US history could fit into it one way or another. White supremacists are not just Klansmen or Confederates.--User:Namiba 13:37, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Agree, so I still support the nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:18, 24 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep Category:American white supremacist politicians and start a new discussion about dividing it by era and possibly renaming it. Merge Category:American white supremacist governors into  Category:American white supremacist politicians or its successor categories.  Keep Category:White supremacist politicians as a container category for Category:COUNTRYDESCRIPTOR white supremacist politicians (including Category:American white supremacist politicians) and merge Category:White supremacist governors into Category:White supremacist politicians and its sub-categories.  In any case, membership should be restricted to those whose white supremacy was both relevant to their role as a politician and was distinctive from their fellow politicians serving the same place and time in history.  In other words, no need to put the politicians of the "deep south" (United States) from 1877-1940s into that category unless they were especially so compared to other politicians of their place and time.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  19:26, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * That seems like it's just kicking WP:POVCAT down the road. How would we determine whether a given person was especially white-supremacist for their place and time? For instance, would Alexander Stephens's outspokenness about slavery make him especially white-supremacist or just ordinarily white-supremacist for a Confederate politician? Normally we simply use categories that are verifiable and defining according to published sources. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 02:53, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment -- This feels like an ATTACK category to me. Segregationists would make a clear category; also those supporting slavery before and during the American Civil War.  "White supremacist" feels to me like a contemporary political trend (an abhorrent on).  Purge into Category:American segregationist governors and other cognate categories and see what is left.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:35, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Further vote below after further thought. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:10, 24 January 2021 (UTC)


 * keep all except Category:White supremacist governors where it appears only subcategory Category:American white supremacist governors could ever be populated. The submitted statement for deletion "Almost every politician from Europe and its diaspora communities could be included int [sic] one or more of these categories" is provably false and unworthy of consideration.  These are not opinion categories, but action categories as the included politician and American state governor articles show white supremacy as the basis for their government legislation and policies. Hmains (talk) 19:03, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * What actions qualify for categorization as a white supremacist? When does racism turn into white supremacy? Which US president from 18th, 19th, or 20th centuries should not be included in this category? The difference between a racist and a white supremacist is difficult to differentiate. For politicians like Abraham Lincoln, his policies included both white supremacist ones and more racially egalitarian ones. How should he be categorized?--User:Namiba 19:19, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * When it is difficult to decide on categories in WP, WP editors typically place content into all the relevant categories. If it is difficult for WP editors, it must be even more difficult for readers and since the purpose of categories is to help readers navigate to articles, we are thereby helping diverse sets of readers reach the underlying articles from multiple starting points. Hmains (talk) 18:31, 24 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Split and Restructure: We can Keep Category:White supremacist politicians as a container (only, and tag it accordingly). It only has two articles, which can go into subcats (and are probably in the right ones already).  Delete Category:White supremacist governors which has nothing but an American subcat, making it an unnecessary level.  I would prefer to see the American governors and politicians Split into (1) pre-Civil War advocates of slavery; (2) Confederate politicians (or they might be added to (1)); (3) Segregationists, up to and including George Wallace of Alabama, who fought a rearguard action against integration; (4) recent white supremacists.  I suspect the latter is to a considerable extent a recent phenomenon, coming to the fore in the last four years, since a recent president failed to condemn violence at a rally.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:10, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete The category as applied is being used too broadly to include too many people, many of whom did not lend much political capital to advancing "white supremacy" at all. We do not categorize people merely by political views.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:35, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. The inconsistent (or insdiscriminate) way in which these categories are applied makes them completely useless. I have found articles in this category where the subject of the article is said to have racial prejudice against Slavs and Eastern Europeans. These populations are undeniably white in every definition of the term. Besides the anachronism of using "white supremacist" in a context where this term does not and cannot apply, how can you be a white supremacist and an anti-white racist at the same time? Even restructuring or purging would not make these categories worth keeping. I suggest that white supremacy be treated through articles and categories about specific topics and movements, and that biographical categories be only used for members of specific movements. Being a leader or member of a KKK or Neo-Nazi outfit is much more defining than the labels used for the nominated categories. Place Clichy (talk) 15:56, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * reading Category:American white supremacist politicians one finds 8 subcats that are properly grouped therein. Hard put to think of another name that would provide such necessary grouping.  Same for the 7 subcats of Category:White supremacist politicians Hmains (talk) 01:59, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * These categories are a mess. For party members such as Category:National Front (UK) politicians, the main article describes this party as far-right and fascist, so it is actually very easy to think of another name that is actually more defining. Seeing the category string between →→, the second category (for members of this 19th-century party) is in already in whereas the third is in, so it makes you wonder how entering the US House of Representatives makes the label change from nationalist to supremacist. I notice that the parent category is already in , which is probably the best way to describe them. The main article states in its first sentence that this party was anti-Irish, and you cannot be anti-Irish and white supremacist at the same time. I also see that  is found here through 3 different routes, and once again the Confederate label is more precise, more correct and more defining for Confederate politicians than white supremacist. The notion of white supremacism in politics is completely anachronistic before the 1950s-60s civil rights movement, except for violent groups organized along this agenda such as the KKK. Place Clichy (talk) 11:23, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It amuses me to see our European colleagues think that:
 * 1) Irish are white. Not until mid-1900s, in the US, officially.
 * 2) Italians are white. Again, not in the US until recently, where they were called Mediterraneanoid to distinguish them from Caucasoid.
 * 3) Slavs are white. Actually, the word "slave" comes from "slav", and they've never been considered white in the US to this day.
 * 4) Obviously, you were sheltered from Spics, Wops, Polacks, and other Papists. And my parents who called them these things, and who voted for Trump.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 00:24, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ❌: it "amuses" me to see our American colleagues think that Hispanics are not white, or that the child of someone white and someone black is black, rather than, depending on your cultural environment and with the difficulty of translation, mixed, mulatto, coffee-with-milk, métis etc. These are merely cultural conventions, races of course do not exist biologically. And don't worry, there has been plenty of intra-European racism and assorted slurs throughout history, and not always linked to immigration: when the word Boche was quite prominent in France, that was not a reference to the non-existent German immigrant workforce there. We've not been "sheltered" from anything unfortunately. Place Clichy (talk) 22:31, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 00:24, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete all — While some of the membership might consider it Proudly, usually these are pejorative.
 * Comment. Why are some of these categories being emptied by ? Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:59, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * because I made a mistake; all are repopulated; sorry about that. Hmains (talk) 04:11, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete This is quickly devolving into a way to attack others. There are too many willing to hurl this as an attack without really justifying at all for us to use it as a way to describe anyone.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:45, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
 * note the double ivoting Hmains (talk) 02:26, 3 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Newspapers published in Qajar Iran

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (Closed with the discussion immediately below this one.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:52, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Newspapers published in Qajar Iran to Category:Qajar Iran
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer, it contains only a single subcategory. There is no need for a dual merge, the subcategory is already in Category:Magazines published in Fars Province. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:02, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 *  Rename, populate and restructure ; the sub-cat contains 23 articles about newspapers, and only one magazine Hekayate jangodaze Yazd ela Shiraz. The magazine article should be moved to Category:Qajar Iran and Category:Magazines published in Fars Province, The nominated category should be moved from the latter up to Category:Mass media in Fars Province, and either renamed to Category:Newspapers published in Fars Province in Qajar Iran, or (if that's unacceptable as a triple intersection) all the contents should be copied to a new Category:Newspapers published in Fars Province . – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:13, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for checking the content of the subcategory. The alternative that you are offering with Category:Newspapers published in Fars Province in Qajar Iran sounds reasonable. If that would be too narrow as a triple intersection, it should also be merged to Category:Newspapers published in Qajar Iran. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:04, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * On reflection, the triple intersection is not appropriate. Keep and populate from the current sub-cat. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:22, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:33, 18 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fars magazines in Qajar's era

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Newspapers published in Fars Province, reparent it; also copy contents to Category:Newspapers published in Qajar Iran. (Closed with the discussion immediately above this one.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:53, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Fars magazines in Qajar's era to Category:Magazines published in Fars Province in Qajar Iran to Category:Newspapers published in Fars Province (over redirect)
 * Nominator's rationale: Matching parent categories and . Qajar Iran was an Iranian empire ruled by the Qajar dynasty from 1789 to 1925. The combined name is a little awkward so I am bringing it here rather than using WP:C2C. – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:00, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * While I do not object, I assume this category becomes empty when the parent category is populated, per alt proposal in the nomination above this one. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:07, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I meant to come back to this one after the above. Will revisit tomorrow. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:55, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * On reflection, the triple intersection by medium, location and time is not appropriate. After checking the contents, I now think we should rename to Category:Newspapers published in Fars Province (over a current redirect), copy the contents to the Qajar Iran parent, and reparent this category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:32, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, this is a small variation of your second alternative of yesterday. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:36, 18 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Mayors and regents of places in Papua

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:50, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Mayors and regents of places in Papua to Category:Mayors and regents of places in Papua (province)
 * Nominator's rationale: upmerge, the two categories have the same purpose. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:06, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge Per WP:C2D to match Papua (province). - RevelationDirect (talk) 13:19, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Municipal councillors in the Netherlands

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:48, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Assen to Category:Municipal councillors in Drenthe and Category:People from Assen
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Bolsward to Category:Municipal councillors in Friesland and Category:People from Bolsward and Category:Municipal councillors of former municipalities in the Netherlands
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Franekeradeel to Category:Municipal councillors in Friesland and Category:People from Franekeradeel and Category:Municipal councillors of former municipalities in the Netherlands
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Buren to Category:Municipal councillors in Gelderland and Category:People from Buren
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Ede, Netherlands to Category:Municipal councillors in Gelderland and Category:People from Ede, Netherlands
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Nijkerk to Category:Municipal councillors in Gelderland and Category:People from Nijkerk
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Rheden to Category:Municipal councillors in Gelderland and Category:People from Rheden
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Wageningen to Category:Municipal councillors in Gelderland and Category:People from Wageningen
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Zutphen to Category:Municipal councillors in Gelderland and Category:People from Zutphen


 * Category:Municipal councillors of Helden to Category:Municipal councillors in Limburg (Netherlands) and Category:People from Peel en Maas and Category:Municipal councillors of former municipalities in the Netherlands
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Roermond to Category:Municipal councillors in Limburg (Netherlands) and Category:People from Roermond
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Valkenburg aan de Geul to Category:Municipal councillors in Limburg (Netherlands) and Category:People from Valkenburg aan de Geul
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Oisterwijk to Category:Municipal councillors in North Brabant and Category:People from Oisterwijk
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Amstelveen to Category:Municipal councillors in North Holland and Category:People from Amstelveen
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Andijk to Category:Municipal councillors in North Holland and Category:People from Andijk and Category:Municipal councillors of former municipalities in the Netherlands
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Bloemendaal to Category:Municipal councillors in North Holland and Category:People from Bloemendaal
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Bussum to Category:Municipal councillors in North Holland and Category:People from Bussum and Category:Municipal councillors of former municipalities in the Netherlands
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Haarlem to Category:Municipal councillors in North Holland and Category:People from Haarlem
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Hilversum to Category:Municipal councillors in North Holland and Category:People from Hilversum
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Zaanstad to Category:Municipal councillors in North Holland and Category:People from Zaanstad
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Enschede to Category:Municipal councillors in Overijssel and Category:People from Enschede
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Kampen, Overijssel to Category:Municipal councillors in Overijssel and Category:People from Kampen, Overijssel
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Ommen to Category:Municipal councillors in Overijssel and Category:People from Ommen
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Alphen aan den Rijn to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Alphen aan den Rijn
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Capelle aan den IJssel to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Capelle aan den IJssel
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Cromstrijen to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Cromstrijen and Category:Municipal councillors of former municipalities in the Netherlands
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Dordrecht to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Dordrecht
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Gouda, South Holland to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Gouda, South Holland
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Hillegom to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Hillegom
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Korendijk to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Korendijk and Category:Municipal councillors of former municipalities in the Netherlands
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Nieuw-Beijerland to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Korendijk and Category:Municipal councillors of former municipalities in the Netherlands
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Krimpen aan den IJssel to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Krimpen aan den IJssel
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Lansingerland to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Lansingerland
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Monster to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Monster and Category:Municipal councillors of former municipalities in the Netherlands
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Nieuwkoop to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Nieuwkoop
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Oegstgeest to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Oegstgeest
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Rijswijk to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Rijswijk
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Schiedam to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Schiedam
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Vlaardingen to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Vlaardingen
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Voorschoten to Category:Municipal councillors in South Holland and Category:People from Voorschoten
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Veenendaal to Category:Municipal councillors in Utrecht (province) and Category:People from Veenendaal
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Vinkeveen en Waverveen to Category:Municipal councillors in Utrecht (province) and Category:People from De Ronde Venen and Category:Municipal councillors of former municipalities in the Netherlands
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Woerden to Category:Municipal councillors in Utrecht (province) and Category:People from Woerden
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Middelburg to Category:Municipal councillors in Zeeland and Category:People from Middelburg
 * Category:Municipal councillors of Vlissingen to Category:Municipal councillors in Zeeland and Category:People from Vlissingen


 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, just one, two or three articles in each of these categories and they are not part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:44, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge for Now While there would have been more than five councillors, most would be non-notable. No objection to recreating any if they exceed expectations and get up to 5+ articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 13:21, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Elections in Washington, D.C.

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:43, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Washington, D.C. elections to Category:Elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:Washington, D.C. elections by year to Category:Elections in Washington, D.C., by year
 * Propose renaming Category:Washington, D.C. elections by decade to Category:Elections in Washington, D.C., by decade
 * Propose renaming Category:1870s Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1870s elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1960s Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1960s elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1970s Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1970s elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1980s Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1980s elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1990s Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1990s elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2000s Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2000s elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2010s Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2010s elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2020s Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2020s elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1871 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1871 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1872 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1872 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1960 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1960 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1964 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1964 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1968 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1968 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1971 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1971 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1972 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1972 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1974 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1974 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1976 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1976 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1978 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1978 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1980 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1980 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1982 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1982 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1984 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1984 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1986 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1986 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1988 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1988 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1990 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1990 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1992 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1992 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1994 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1994 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1996 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1996 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:1998 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:1998 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2000 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2000 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2002 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2002 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2004 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2004 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2006 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2006 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2008 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2008 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2010 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2010 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2012 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2012 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2014 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2014 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2016 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2016 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2018 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2018 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:2020 Washington, D.C. elections to Category:2020 elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Propose renaming Category:Washington, D.C. special elections to Category:Special elections in Washington, D.C.
 * Nominator's rationale: Two-part modifier, the second of which is comma-separated, makes for awkward names. Proposed format follows parent categories Category:Elections by city in the United States and Category:Political events in Washington, D.C.. Top category (of the proposed ones) has a mix of the current format and the new proposed format. An alternative could be to use "District of Columbia" as prefix instead of "Washington, D.C.". HandsomeFella (talk) 21:09, 14 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Nominator's rationale: (amending my rationale) Per almost all other categories in category tree Category:Washington, D.C.. Furthermore, current construct violates WP:COMMA, and adding a comma to fix that would make already awkward names even more awkward. While the proposed new names don't conform with "by-state" categories, that's less relevant, because
 * DC is a district, not a state,
 * conformity with the main (eponymous) category tree is more important, and
 * whichever format you choose, there is sometimes no way of obtaining total conformity.
 * Two-part modifier, the second of which is comma-separated, makes for awkward names. Proposed format follows parent categories Category:Elections by city in the United States and Category:Political events in Washington, D.C.. Top category (of the proposed ones) has a mix of the current format and the new proposed format. An alternative could be to use "District of Columbia" as prefix instead of "Washington, D.C.". HandsomeFella (talk) 21:09, 14 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment, this was opposed as a speedy nomination by User:Oculi and User:Armbrust. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:54, 14 November 2020 (UTC)


 * C2C per what? Category:Special elections in the United States by state or territory supports the present version as does Category:2020s elections in the United States by state. Oculi (talk) 11:27, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, C2C per its parent category tree Category:Elections by city in the United States, and its "grandparent" category tree Category:Elections by city. Those you mention are state categories (except for the D.C. ones). These are city categories. HandsomeFella (talk) 16:41, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Btw, I have seen no clear pattern or guideline on when to use "Washington, D.C." and when to use "District of Columbia". I'm open to the suggestion of using the latter in these category names. It would make them less awkward, with no comma-separated second modifier. HandsomeFella (talk) 16:50, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose speedy Goes against the convention in . Washington, D.C. isn't just a city, it's also a federal district. Armbrust The Homunculus 05:46, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * But it is a city, it is not a state, and there is no category for federal districts, because there's only one. HandsomeFella (talk) 07:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, but then why is as subcategory of  and  as subcategory of ? Armbrust The Homunculus 16:23, 4 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose Not convinced this is enough of an issue to break the standard format of categories like Category:1870s elections in the United States by state and I think that format is more important to match than that in Category:Elections by city in the United States. Number   5  7  17:24, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: if you follow the parent category Category:Political events in Washington, D.C. (mentioned above) one step up, you'll find Category:Political events in the United States by state or territory, in which all categories follow the proposed format.
 * And if you go to Category:Washington, D.C., you'll be hardpressed to find any category whose name doesn't end with "in Washington, D.C." or "of Washington, D.C.".
 * The fact is that in some cases there seems to be no way of avoiding inconsistent format altogether, see for instance Category:North American national association football teams, where the American and Canadian teams use "soccer" and the Mexican team uses "football". So our choice is in effect, do we want inconsistency plus awkwardness, or is it better with just (somewhat less) inconsistency?
 * Furthermore, per WP:Copyedit, "D.C." needs to be set off by a closing comma, so if we follow that, we just add to the awkwardness. The proposed format is way better.
 * HandsomeFella (talk) 22:48, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Zeke, the Mad Horrorist  (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 17:14, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:31, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Rename using District of Columbia (no Washington) as suggested alternative. Washington is just the largest of the cities in the district. When it becomes a state, or becomes a very small district with the remainder in Maryland (as has already been done in Virginia), we can discuss a better naming scheme then.
 * Comment: I think that will have to wait for a discussion on the entire DC category tree. Right now we should focus on fixing current awkwardness/inconsistency. HandsomeFella (talk) 12:55, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * I have amended my rationale for this proposal. This probably could have passed as a C2C speedy if I had used that rationale from the start. Do you agree, and if so, what can be done about it? HandsomeFella (talk) 00:26, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:16, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I have relisted this and re-inserted the original rationale, so that we can see what was there when the "Oppose" was added. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:16, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support - consistency within Category:Washington, D.C. seems a persuasive argument. (My oppose at speedy was that it wasn't a speedy.) Oculi (talk) 13:31, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support as amended. This seems a good solution.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:39, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:History of European art music
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 January 29%23Category:History of European art music

Category:Democratic Federation of Northern Syria
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:44, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to Category:Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria
 * Propose renaming Category:Education in the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to Category:Education in the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria
 * Propose renaming Category:Military history of the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to Category:Military history of the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria
 * Propose renaming Category:Military operations involving the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to Category:Military operations involving the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria
 * Propose renaming Category:Military operations of the Iraqi Civil War involving the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to Category:Military operations of the Iraqi Civil War involving the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria
 * Propose renaming Category:Military operations of the Syrian civil war involving the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to Category:Military operations of the Syrian civil war involving the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria
 * Propose renaming Category:Political parties in the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to Category:Political parties in the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria
 * Propose renaming Category:Politics of the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to Category:Politics of the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria
 * Propose renaming Category:Regions of the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria to Category:Regions of the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria
 * Nominator's rationale: C2D per Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria. Charles Essie (talk) 05:02, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:46, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. AANES is the new name of DFNS since 2018. Levivich harass/hound 07:16, 24 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Journalists killed in 2018
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:43, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting journalists killed in 2018


 * Nominator's rationale: Do we want a load of occupational categories by year of death? Rathfelder (talk) 00:22, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete - no. Oculi (talk) 01:22, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Somehow it seems strange, as all of the journalists in that category are murdered journalists, which imo are Category:Assassinated journalists. But what is the difference between a murdered and an Category:Assassinated journalist? Lotje (talk) 07:24, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * "People who were victims of an assassination, the act of killing a prominent person for either political, religious, or monetary reasons."Rathfelder (talk) 13:17, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete as currently a stand alone category and probably a series would become a series of smallcats. If kept, rename and purge to Category:Journalists assassinated in 2018. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:56, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete no. - RevelationDirect (talk) 13:31, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete appears the only "year" category of this; way WP:OCAT. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:47, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Urdu-language journalists
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:47, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting urdu-language journalists


 * Nominator's rationale: Only 2, both writing in the language of their own country.  Categorising people by language only makes sense if they dont use their native language. Rathfelder (talk) 00:14, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep or nominate more of Category:Pakistani writers by language. (Pakistan has quite a few languages.) Oculi (talk) 01:33, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Urdu-language writers, Pakistani journalists are not categorized by any other languages. Merge instead of delete, because Urdu is mainly used in Pakistan as a lingua franca, rather than as a mother language. It is not obvious that people write in Urdu. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:07, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Fun fact, the two biographies in the category are of Indian people rather than Pakistani. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:23, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * More fun fact: there is also Category:Urdu journalists for Pakistani Urdu-language journalists. So merge to Category:Urdu journalists, or reverse merge, and remove country references from the header. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:28, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Urdu journalists. The most fun, uh, logical solution. Gjs238 (talk) 01:17, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Question What is the proper Wiki nomenclature, Urdu-language XXX or Urdu XXX? If Category:Urdu-language journalists is merged to Category:Urdu journalists, should Category:Urdu-language novelists be renamed Category:Urdu novelists? There is also Category:Urdu-language columnists and Category:Urdu-language fiction writers. Gjs238 (talk) 01:27, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Good question. I think with "-language" is more common than without so then it should be a reverse merge. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:54, 18 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I didnt realise Category:Urdu journalists existed as it wasnt linked to Category:Journalists. That would give us 2 language categories, the other being Yiddish.  If we want to keep it I think Category:Urdu-language journalists is better.  Rathfelder (talk) 11:13, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep language in which writers write is defining. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:48, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep -- Pakistan has multiple languages -- English, Urdu, Punjabi, Pushtu. The language in which a journalist writes is highly relevant.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:43, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Judaeo-Spanish-language journalists
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:42, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Judaeo-Spanish-language journalists to Category:Judaeo-Spanish-language writers
 * Nominator's rationale: Only one. Rathfelder (talk) 00:11, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:37, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge -- There is also a poets category (with 3 people). HOwever I thought the usual name for the language was Ladino, so that the target should be renamed to Category:Ladino-language writers.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:47, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Lamdan Prize recipients
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:41, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Lamdan Prize recipients
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCAWARD and WP:SMALLCAT
 * The Lamdan Prize was a municipal award given by Ramat Gan, Israel to children's book authors from 1954-1983. Within the articles, the award is generally mentioned in passing as part of a list of other honours so it doesn't seem defining for S. Yizhar, Amos Bar or any other article you want to click on. There wasn't a list so I created one right here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:06, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete, another obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:39, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Freemen of the City of London
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. As noted by the nominator, they are already in a list. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:41, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/ Category:Freemen of the City of London
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)
 * The Freedom of the City of London was originally like a medieval business license that allowed members of livery companies to enter the City of London on business and pay no taxes, including tolls on London Bridge. (Here is an adorable video of a shepherd taking sheep across London Bridge in a re-enactment.) Later it could be purchased by individuals and then it morphed into a diplomatic souvenir for foreign visitors to London. Today, it is a combination local Key to the City and nostalgia award.
 * That long history and different usages leads to a strange mish mash of a category and I'm trying to imagine the Wikipedia reader who would want a direct navigational path from Princess Diana to President Ulysses S. Grant and then to funky mixmaster Smurfie Syco. The category contents are already listified right here in the main article where they are grouped so it's easier to navigate than this category. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:06, 17 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Background We previously deleted freemen cats for other cities right here and here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:06, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, while this may not be positioned as an award, for practical purposes it serves as such nonetheless. And it is surely non-defining. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:45, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Listify then delete -- Originally this referred to those free of one of the city livery companies, by descent, apprenticeship or purchase. In 1835 (per headnote) the city corporation decided to grant freedom itself.  By this stage the trading privileges attached to freedom had largely decayed, so that this is essentially an award category, but we should have a list, which could usefully give additional details of the award.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:52, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.