Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 January 4



Category:Pages with misplaced templates
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 January 19%23Category:Pages with misplaced templates

Category:Fiction narrated by a dead person

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:28, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting fiction narrated by a dead person


 * Nominator's rationale: Non-defining category that does not define the films themself. This type of categorization is poor as it weakly connects the films in the category by the use  of a deceased character narration in the film. ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 21:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete not defining - clearly a scene a faire for several genres and also several films are narrated by several characters some who survive and others who don't (see the book Dracula for example). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:52, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete This is categoration by a minor artistic choice. The choice of who does the narration is not a defining part of fictional works.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:49, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Comic book characters in other media

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:27, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Comic book characters in other media to Category:Comics characters in other media
 * Nominator's rationale: It's unclear what excludes something from one category or the other, making this redundant. Appears that the user has since received a topic ban from category creation. -- 2pou (talk) 20:30, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 22:10, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom No real distinction between comic book and comic strip characters in this case. Dimadick (talk) 16:29, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Scientists and descent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:19, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting scientists of chinese descent


 * Propose deleting scientists of indian descent


 * Propose deleting scientists of iranian descent


 * Propose deleting scientists of pakistani descent


 * Propose deleting scientists of polish descent


 * Propose deleting scientists of vietnamese descent


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS. Following this discussion about the Italian descent category and together with discussions below and, scientists are defined by their nationality (and of course their field of study), but categories of scientists by country of their ancestors without a reference to their actual nationality serve little apparent purpose. Place Clichy (talk) 18:32, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete as trivial intersection categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:39, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom; and suffers the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:53, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Canadian scientists by descent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete, but I am merging the contents to the appropriate "Canadian people of FOOian descent" as a default. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:21, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting canadian scientists by descent


 * Propose deleting canadian scientists of chinese descent


 * Propose deleting canadian scientists of indian descent


 * Propose deleting canadian scientists of japanese descent


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS. Following this discussion about the Italian descent category, like the other discussion below, there seems to be consensus that the mere country of descent is not a defining factor for scientists that would justify these category intersections. Also note that in most cases these categories seem to be used for expatriates rather than descent. Place Clichy (talk) 18:16, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge to Category:Canadian people of Chinese descent etc., as trivial intersection categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:38, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom; and these suffer the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:54, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I entirely agree with Carlossuarez46 that most descent categories are a load of rubbish. Often the claimed descent is not even mentioned in the article.  They are also often misleadingly mixed up with emigration categories.  Rathfelder (talk) 12:08, 6 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Asian-American film directors

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:23, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename category:Asian-American film directors to Category:American film directors of Asian descent
 * Nominator's rationale This category has 13 subcategories (including Category:American film directors of Afghan descent) which use the American x of y descent. Does anyone actually think people from Afghanistan and people from Japan are part of one ethnic group? the guidelines say we categorize by ethnic group, not by race (although for that matter, does anyone consider those from Afghanistan and those from Japan to be the same race?). For now though the biggest problem is this category not conforming. It goes against its parents Category:American people of Asian descent, Category:American people of Asian descent by occupation, the majority of its sister cats under that cat use the form American [occupation] of Asian descent or American people of Asian descent in [occupation]. The fact that it uses a different for than all 13 of its daughter categories does not seem justified. It also remains unclear to me why we moved this from the broader filmmakers category to this narrow one. Especially because of non-diffusing rules, I really feel a move to Category:American filmmakers of Asian descent would be very justified, but that is secondary to the need to get this to conform to all sides of the category tree in using the American [Occupation] of y descent form.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:31, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename and containerize per this discussion. Place Clichy (talk) 15:33, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:36, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Also containerize, per Place Clichy. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:54, 10 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete suffers the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:54, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Dimadick (talk) 16:30, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

American-Indian businesspeople

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:20, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename Category:Indian-American businesspeople to Category:American businesspeople of Indian descent
 * Nominator's rationale This is a particularly likely to be confusing name as is. We are asking people to actively be able to distinguish American-Indian from American Indian. The fact of the matter is that even though we use Native American in category, the real on the ground common usage in the US, especially in the areas with the largest percentages of Native American populations (South Dakota, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arizona) is Indian. One publication is still called Indian Country Today, at least well into this century academic courses at universities had titles like Indian history to 1900, and having taken a course on Native American history in the 20th-century (I do not remember what it was called, it was a graduate course, the one I mentioned first was an undergrad course), I know that at least well into the 1970s every reference said Indian. The political awakening was largely the American Indian Movement, and I could go on and on and on with reference after reference after reference. Plus, all the parents and daughter cats use the proposed form, we have Category:American people of Indian descent, Category:American people of Indian descent by occupation, Category:American businessmen of Indian descent, Category:American businesswomen of Indian descent and Category:American film producers of Indian descent.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:16, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment This is one of only 2 of 26 total sub-categories of Category:American people of Indian descent by occupation that does not use the descent form in some way.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:23, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 15:28, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:35, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 21:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete suffers the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:54, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Dimadick (talk) 16:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Asian-American businesspeople

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename and containerize. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:18, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename Category:Asian-American businesspeople to Category:American businesspeople of Asian descent
 * Nominator's rationale Let us see, the direct parent is Category:American people of Asian descent by occupation, the ultimate parent is Category:American people of Asian descent, and there are 7 sub-cats, such as Category:American businesspeople of Japanese descent that use the American [occupation] of x descent category. There is one sub-cat that joins in not conforming, but that has its onw unique issues as well, so I will nominate it seperately.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:10, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename and containerize. There was consensus at this discussion (and this and this related discussions) that Asian descent categories (like African and European descent) should be treated as containers for national descent categories, rather than proxy for race or ethnicity. Also note the difference in scope, as Asian American usually refers to East Asians only, whereas people of Asian descent should be a container for the entire Asian continent, which also includes South Asia, Central Asia, the Middle East and most of Russia. Place Clichy (talk) 15:26, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * For what it is worth, the direct contents at present are a person with origins in Bangladesh and one with origins in Vietnam. I would fully support containezization per precendent.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:17, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:31, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete suffers the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:54, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Dimadick (talk) 16:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

American aviators of Asian descent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no conseusus to delete/merge, so rename as nominated. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:48, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename Category:Asian-American aviators to Category:American aviators of Asian descent
 * Nominator's rationale This is a subcat of Category:American people of Asian descent by occupation which in turn is a sub-cat of Category:American people of Asian descent. Of the sister cats under the American people of Asian descent by occupation, something like 35 use the American [occupation name] of Asian descent, American women [Occupation name] of Asian descent, or American people of Asian descent in [occupation] forms (or on occasion American women of Asian descent in [occupation]). This is a clear outlyier, and there is no reason for it to nor conform to the standard form we use.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:05, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename and containerize per this discussion. Place Clichy (talk) 15:28, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete as a trivial intersection. If kept, containerize. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:28, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete suffers the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:55, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Dimadick (talk) 16:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Asian Americans, like African-Americans, have a unique history in aviation. It has been written about here, here, and here to mention a few places.--User:Namiba 15:03, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Asian-American female aviators

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:American female aviators and Category:American aviators of Asian descent, the latter of which was created as result of this discussion, which was discussed concurrently. The two discussions were read together. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:48, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge Category:Asian-American female aviators to Category:American female aviators and Category:American aviators of Asian descent
 * Nominator's rationale I am unconvinced that this intersection category is justified. Triple intersections are generally only needed when they can be clearly justified as a class. I challenge anyone to write American aviators of Asian descent as a reliably sourced article that is more than just a list. If you cannot do it, we should not have this category. If kept it clearly should be renamed to Category:American female aviators of Asian descent.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:58, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 15:29, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:25, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete suffers the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:55, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Dimadick (talk) 16:33, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. --User:Namiba 15:04, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Indigenous American female aviators

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus to delete/merge, so rename as nominated. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:25, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename Category:Indigenous American female aviators to Category:Native American female aviators
 * Nominator's rationale This is the only sub-cat of Category:Native American women that does not use the Native American form in the name. It is also the only sub-cat of Category:Native American people by occuation to use this form. All other categories either use Native American, or use a specific ethnic designation (such as Category:Navajo judges). Well there are some sub-cats of Category:Native American sportspeople that refer to a specific institution, but that is a different issue). There is very good reason for this. 1-the standard usage in the United States is Native American. 2-this is a specific ethnic group, we categorize by ethnic group, and usually assume one limit to an ethnic group is residing in a specific country. 3-the current name is more ambiguous, and could in theory by some be thought to refer to an Otavalo involved in aviation, who never even flew his plane within the airpspace of the United States of America, let alone set food on the ground in that country. Even if our Otavalo friend had infact flown on occasion to the US (which would be not a surprise), he would only be maybe part of this intended category if he became a permanent resident of the US. I will leave it to others to debate whether an immigrants from the highlands of Peru who speaks at best broken Spanish as a second language and becomes a permanent resident in the United States qualifies as "Native American" or weather he should be classed as "Hispanic and Latino American". My sister-in-law is an even more confounding individual. This is not just a hypothetical question, although I do not know there are many Otavalo in the US, I do know there are huge numbers of Nahuatl and people from various Mayan ethnic groups, as well as from other ethnic groups indigenous to Mexico and I am certain that the number of people throughout the US who are ethniclly part of groups indigenous to South American is in the thousands, far less than the millions of Americans who are ethnically linked to Spain, Portugal, or somewhere in Latin America. That number is about 40 million total (I could be off by a few million, but that is close enough for this discussion). The clear fact is we want to this unambiguously link the people to the United States and be clear to editors that is the meaning and intended scope. The target does this, this name does not. It is also the lone outlyier against over 30 other categories using the Native American form.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:51, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 15:30, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge to parent categories as a double violation of WP:OCEGRS for gender and ethnicity (or if kept, rename per WP:C2C). Marcocapelle (talk) 18:22, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * For what it is worth I just created Category:Native American aviators as a parent category for this. I am not sure the intersection is notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:55, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Then merge to Category:American female aviators and Category:Native American women only. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:11, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete suffers the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:55, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Dimadick (talk) 16:34, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Chinese-American aviators

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus to delete/merge, so rename as nominated. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:21, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename Category:Chinese-American aviators to Category:American aviators of Chinese descent
 * Nominator's rationale There are about 30 sub-cats of Category:American people of Chinese descent by occupation. This is one of only three that does not use the form American [occupation name} of Chinese descent or American people of Chinese descent in [give occupation]. It also goes against the norm created by Category:American people of Chinese descent. The other two non-conforming categories have already been nominated for renaming of some sort. There is no reason to not use the standard form for this category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:26, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename and purge . What is the relationship between Franklin Chang Díaz's astronaut career and his grandfather fleeing from China to Costa Rica at the time of the Boxer Rebellion? Place Clichy (talk) 15:35, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Change vote to purge and merge to Category:American people of Chinese descent seen the discussion on this page. Place Clichy (talk) 16:31, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:American people of Chinese descent as a trivial intersection. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:15, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete suffers the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:55, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Dimadick (talk) 16:34, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. It is a recognized subcategory worthy of its own Wikipedia article. See the New York Times and the National Park Service.--User:Namiba 17:09, 14 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Odia Diaspora

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete/merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:15, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Category:Odia diaspora
 * Delete Category:People of Odia descent
 * Delete Category:Odia American
 * Delete Category:Odia Canadian
 * Merge Category:American people of Odia descent to Category:American people of Indian descent
 * Merge Category:Canadian people of Odia descent to Category:Canadian people of Indian descent
 * Nominator's rationale To justify the parent category we should have an article Odia diaspora, so as we can be sure there are really enough reliable sources to cover this topic. We lack such an article. This is a system that violates small cat rules, and by its very existence makes it harder to find articles for no good reason. There are only 3 articles here. 1 on an American and 2 on a Canadian. The one listed American was born in Odia, but since this is covering the Odia ethnic group, which is not neccesarily the ethnicity of everyone born in the Indian state of that name, I am not positve it is applied correctly, it may be, but I see nothing in the article that actually says that Jogesh Pati is ethnically part of the Odia people. Mere birth in a place does not automatically mean the ethnic designation applies. For example Gerrit W. Gong's mother was born in Hawai'i, she was most definately not Hawai'ian, and if someone tried to put Gong in Category:American people of Hawai'ian descent they would be just plain wrong. The two Canadians are sibblings whose parents were from Odisha. That article never states that their parents were part of the Odia people. Even if such an assumptions in reasonable based on other factors, I see no reason to have 6 categories to categorize 3 articles on people from a total of 2 different families.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:19, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:13, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support 6 categories for 3 articles does not aid navigation. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Virtually empty category tree. Dimadick (talk) 16:36, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Purge the first category; delete the others more descent categories to which I have objected (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories) Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:08, 7 January 2021 (UTC) First category is now purged of all but the subcats, so delete that too. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
 * how do you mean purge the first category? If the other categories are deleted, the first one becomes empty. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:44, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
 * It's nothing but subcats now (no bios), so delete it too. My second comment above. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 00:51, 10 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Support, but ensure that all articles end off with an Indian descent category. India is a big place, but (except where there are very clear sub-ethnicities, we do not normally have descent categories below country.  Carlossuarez46 always opposes the existence of descetn categories, so that his vote should be discounted.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:41, 10 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Political organizations of minorities

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:12, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting political organizations of minorities


 * Nominator's rationale: Redundant with its only child,, which is already correctly categorized. This near-empty intermediate level does not bring much value. Place Clichy (talk) 14:01, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:12, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Japanese-American theologians

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: purge and merge to Category:American theologians and Category:American people of Japanese descent/Category:American people of Korean descent, as discussed. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:11, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename category:Japanese-American theologians to Category:American theologians of Japanese descent
 * Rename Category:Korean-American theologians to Category:American theologians of Korean descent
 * Nominator's rationale These should conform to the parents Category:American people of Japanese descent by occupation (and ultimately Category:American people of Japanese descent and Category:American people of Korean descent by occupation (and ultimately Category:American people of Korean descent.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:59, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename and purge . Per convention on ethnic/descent categories, these WP:EGRS categories should only contain people of Japanese and Korean descent (not Japanese or Korean nationals or expatriates) for which the link between descent and theology is WP:DEFINING. Place Clichy (talk) 14:42, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * If we do that, which I think is justified, we may need to ask if these categories are needed at all based on size.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:38, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Change vote to purge and merge to Category:American theologians and Category:American people of Japanese descent/Category:American people of Korean descent seen the discussion on this page. Place Clichy (talk) 16:30, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Purge and merge per discussion between JPL and Place Clichy, and similarly to the Chinese sibling category that is being discussed slightly further down on this page. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:10, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete suffers the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:55, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Dimadick (talk) 16:37, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Asian-American theologians

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete, mainly because it was the parent category for categories (discussed concurrently with this one) that were deleted. See here and here. It was difficult to read a consensus here, but I took these other discussions into account. This close does not preclude someone from creating some sort of category for theologians of Asian theology. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:42, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename Category:Asian-American theologians to Category:American theologians of Asian descent
 * Nominator's rationle The parent of this category is Category:American people of Asian descent (and the intermediate Category:American people of Asian descent by occupation). There seems no good reason to have this category not conform to that standard. After the actual results of my proposal to upmerge Category:Asian-American biblical scholars though I see that people will at times have some very unique ideas on how to apply the naming of categories for American people of Asian descent, for that reason I think having this discussion entriely seperate from that of its children categories is justified.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:44, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename and containerize per this discussion. Place Clichy (talk) 15:37, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * If enough theologians adhere to a kind of Asian theology (similar to the earlier discussion about biblical scholars, see also discussion below) then rename to e.g. Category:Theologians of Asian theologies, otherwise delete per WP:SMALLCAT and interlink the relevant articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:57, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment This and its subcategories include individuals who would be considered scholars of Asian theology, as well as scholars of Asian American theology (which are, if it is not obvious, not the same, albeit overlapping). Kwok Pui-lan and Peter Phan have written in both discourses, Chung Hyun Kyung has written primarily in terms of Asian theology, and Grace Ji-Sun Kim has written in Asian American theology. Then you have others who have not touched these topics and are simply American theologians of Asian descent (e.g. Seyoon Kim). So it is quite an entangled category if you are wanting to get rid of descent categories.--Caorongjin (talk) 09:49, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Precisely, the topic of interesting value for an encyclopedia here is Asian theology (or Asian-American theology). The ascendancy of theologians is quite irrelevant, and some Western or African Sinologists probably gave more important contributions to this topic than, say, Danny Yamashiro, the Hawaiian accident survivor turned televangelist. I am note sure that a category placed at the intersection of Asia and theology should be based on descent. Place Clichy (talk) 16:28, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * If renamed that way, it should also be reparented for sure. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:26, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Whatever happens here should also take into consideration what is done with Category:African-American theologians and Category:Womanist theologians, and I wonder if is worth considering alongside this.--Caorongjin (talk) 10:05, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * No it should not African-American is a specific ethnic identifier that refers to a defined group of people who formed as an ethnic group after over 250 years as a people in the United States. Asian American is a racial grouping, with disputed inclusion criteria, and grouping together people who generally think of themselves as specific ethnic sub-groups.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:24, 14 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete suffers the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:56, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Dimadick (talk) 16:37, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Chinese-American theologians
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 * The result of the discussion was: purge and merge to Category:American theologians and Category:American people of Chinese descent, as discussed. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:06, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename Category:Chinese-American theologians to Category:American theologians of Chinese descent
 * Nominator's rationale This is one of about 30 total subcats of Category:American people of Chinese descent by occupation. It is one of just three that uses this irregular form. There is no justification for this category not conforming with the form of X people of Y descent, that we use in thousands of categories. The parent is Category:American people of Chinese descent. We would be wise to have this category conform with that form.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:39, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename and purge . Per convention on ethnic/descent categories, these WP:EGRS categories should only contain people of Chinese descent (not nationals or expatriates) for which the link between descent and theology is WP:DEFINING. For instance:
 * C. S. Song, never described as either Chinese-American or of Chinese descent in his article, but who is from Taiwan, is already categorized at both and, which is sufficient.
 * Danny Yamashiro has an unsourced statement that he "is an American of Hawaiian, Okinawan, and Chinese ancestry" which seems to be taken from his own self-published book, hardly a RS. His evangelical work does not seem to be in any way related to Chinese or Asian culture.
 * Amos Yong is Malaysian and is never referred in article as Chinese, Chinese American or Hakka, another ethnic group featured in the article's categories, and of course this absence of statement is not supported by reliable sources. Please don't tell me you can guess from his name.
 * Anthony C. Yu, Hong Kong-born who settled in Taiwan and then the U.S., seems to be better known as a literary translator than a theologian.
 * Place Clichy (talk) 15:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Hmm, in that case we would have 2 articles, in which case we should probably upmerge.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:37, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Change vote to purge and merge to Category:American theologians and Category:American people of Chinese descent seen the discussion. Place Clichy (talk) 13:27, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Purge and merge to Category:Asian-American theologians and Category:American people of Chinese descent, per discussion above. Thanks Place Clichy for checking. This should also apply to the Japanese and Korean sibling categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:48, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete suffers the same problems all "descent" categories do (see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:56, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Dimadick (talk) 16:37, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Murdered sportspeople
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:03, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting murdered sportspeople


 * Propose deleting murdered american sportspeople‎


 * Propose deleting murdered players of american football‎


 * Propose deleting murdered american baseball players‎


 * Propose deleting murdered american basketball players‎


 * Propose deleting murdered sports competitors‎


 * Propose deleting murdered baseball players‎


 * Propose deleting murdered basketball players‎


 * Propose deleting murdered boxers‎


 * Propose deleting murdered footballers‎


 * Propose deleting murdered gaelic footballers‎


 * Propose deleting murdered rugby union players‎


 * Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. Not expected as a professional qualification. There may have been many years between the occupation and the death, making the link even weaker.


 * Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children.


 * See also: related rationale about suicides by occupation:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2020 December 27
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 12:04, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete, completely agree with nominator's rationale. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:43, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom; and my comments on similar categories. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 00:07, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Both defining but the intersection is not defining, usually a coincidence. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:33, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose Their fame may well be the cause of the murders. Dimadick (talk) 16:38, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * How do you mean "cause"? I would expect a statistical relationship between being notable and being murdered, but that is not unique to sportspeople. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:31, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 17:07, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. GiantSnowman 17:08, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Art Nouveau architecture in Bangkok
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:57, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Art Nouveau architecture in Bangkok to Category:Art Nouveau architecture in Thailand
 * Nominator's rationale: While Category:Art Nouveau architecture by city is fairly established, none of the architecture-by-style-in-Thailand categories are subdivided as such, and the suggested parent isn't so large as to need subcategorisation. All the members are already otherwise categorised under Category:Buildings and structures in Bangkok. Paul_012 (talk) 11:52, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge per WP:SMALLCAT. Not every city needs this amount of diffusion and many sibling categories could be nominated as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:39, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American scientists of Pakistani descent
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. I have also taken into account the comments in the other related discussions on this page, here and here. I have not discounted 's !vote, as was suggested. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:27, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting american scientists of chinese descent


 * Propose deleting american women scientists of chinese descent


 * Propose deleting american male scientists of indian descent


 * Propose deleting american women scientists of indian descent


 * Propose deleting american scientists of japanese descent


 * Propose deleting american scientists of pakistani descent


 * Propose deleting american scientists of taiwanese descent


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEGRS. Following this discussion about the Italian descent category, there seems to be consensus that the mere country of descent is not a defining factor for scientists that would justify these category intersections. Also note that in most cases these categories seem to be used for expatriates rather than descent. pinging contributors in the previous discussion. Place Clichy (talk) 09:56, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 12:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete — triple and quadruple intersections that do not reflect any difference in scientific performance. So easy to create these intersection categories, and so hard to delete them. A neverending process.
 * Oppose There is ample evidence that these intersections are seen as groups and defining.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:48, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Anything specific? Place Clichy (talk) 12:54, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete all per nom and my nom at this discussion about the Italian descent category. In addition to WP:OCEGRS, there's also WP:BLP to consider. A quick look at some of the members of these categories shows that editors have been adding EGRS cats without sourcing. This isn't surprising, as the claim "of X descent" is pretty difficult to source directly. Also,, shouldn't the title of this section of the log be something like "American scientists by country of origin"? The current title suggests there's just one cat under discussion. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 15:14, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 *  Delete Merge to Category:American people of Chinese descent etc., trivial intersections, e.g. the fact that someone has Pakistani grandparents have nothing to do with their performance as a scientist. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:31, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, I do not see a connection between somebody's descent and their occupation. – DarkGlow ( ✉ ) 15:51, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete same problems as usual for "descent" categories; see User:Carlossuarez46/Descent categories. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 00:08, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose The nomination ignores these people's ethnicity, which is far from trivial. Dimadick (talk) 16:40, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Agree with this, to the extent that articles should stay in the general descent categories, since those are not nominated yet. That is why I changed "delete" to "merge". I would expect that nobody except Carlossuarez46 would oppose this merge. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:06, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Every time I look at an example these are either expatriates (rather than Americans of foreign descent), not defined by their ancestry or already in a multitude of other often redundant ethnic/descent categories. E.g. Farooq Azam, born and raised up to B.Sc. in Lahore, Pakistan, is already in no less than the following categories not affected by this nomination: American people of Pakistani descent, Pakistani emigrants to the United States, Pakistani expatriate academics and American academics of Pakistani descent, in addition to the real defining categories such as Pakistani microbiologists and Pakistani marine biologists. In the spirit of consensus I could live with an upmerge to the nearest non-occupation descent category, but that does not seem necessary here. Place Clichy (talk) 12:54, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * In essence we agree. Put it differently, I agree with deletion after having ensured that everyone is already in an appropriate expatriate or emigrant category. Those who are not (if any at all) should be added to a descent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
 * In essence we agree indeed. However even in this case I would only add to a descent category articles for which this characteristic is defining and supported by reliable sources, a minimum per WP:EGRS and, in the case of living people, WP:BLPCAT. Every article does not have to be in a descent (or emigrant/expatriate) category at all cost if none applies. Place Clichy (talk) 16:53, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
 * True. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:45, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose -- These are all (or mostly) well populated. Carlossuarez46 always opposes descent categories, so that he vote should be discounted.  My view is that, even with a multiple intersection, if it can be properly populated, it should be allowed to remain.  We get something similar with expatriate sportspeople, where we frequently have to consider minuscule categories.  Distant descents (several generations) should be discouraged, but those for immigrants and the children of immigrants should be allowed.  Peterkingiron (talk) 16:21, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , I don't think your statement that 's !vote should be "discounted" is fair. The position he holds is set out in the essay he linked to and is very consistently expressed in CFD discussions – he opposes "by descent" categorization of people. He should not be punished for holding and expressing a consistent opinion that applies across many categories. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:01, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge the gendered-ethnicity-nationality-descent combinations and keep the others. Sources routinely describe scientists by their family's country of origin, see here, here, here, here, and here for just a few of the many sources. Looking over the sources, I am convinced that articles on Chinese-American, Indian-American, and other Asian diasporas in science can be written.--User:Namiba 21:55, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Operations Near Cache River, Arkansas
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:05, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Operations Near Cache River, Arkansas to Category:1862 in the United States, Category:Battles of the American Civil War in Arkansas
 * Propose merging Category:Operations on the White River (American Civil War) to Category:Battles of the American Civil War in Arkansas
 * Propose merging Category:Battles of the Operations on the Memphis & Charleston Railroad of the American Civil War to Category:Battles of the American Civil War in Tennessee


 * Nominator's rationale: Merge as WP:SMALLCAT, as there is only one article in each of these. These are sub-cats within "Campaigns" categories, but a single page about a battle does not deserve a Campaign category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:09, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge, very obvious cases of WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:33, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Obviously merge -- These are single article categories where the article does not need much more in the way of categories. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:25, 10 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional LGBT characters by occupation
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete; Category:LGBT villains and Category:LGBT superheroes moved to Category:Fictional LGBT characters. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:03, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting fictional lgbt characters by occupation


 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEF. It could be argued that the two categories inside of this category, superheroes and villains, are not occupations, merely lifestyles of the character. – DarkGlow ( ✉ ) 02:29, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete No more defining for real people than for fictional characters. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 06:27, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support in principle per nom, but add Category:LGBT villains to Category:Fictional LGBT characters in order to keep it in the LGBT tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:07, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete not every possible intersection of everything needs to be categozed by. For fictional characters their occupation is often non-defing to them as a character.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:19, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom & LaundryPizza03. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 00:08, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Would only be valid id it actually covered occupations, not character types. Dimadick (talk) 16:42, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Education missionaries
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge as nominated, primarily because Category:Missionary educators was not nominated. I will redirect Category:Education missionaries to Category:Missionary educators. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:31, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Education missionaries to Category:Missionary educators
 * Nominator's rationale: Seems to duplicate unless I'm missing something? Le Deluge (talk) 01:14, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge or reverse merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:11, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom These are missionaries who engage in education. They are missionaries because of their specific connection to a specific religion. The target is the order that represents who and what these people actually are.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:49, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Reverse Merge more logical. Not all education missionaries who support education are educators but all missionary educators are working as education missionaries. An education missionary category would include someone who builds schools but does not teach or lead teachers. They are not an educator. Education missionaries is more accurate and inclusive of the two.Breamk (talk) 14:12, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge somehow -- Reverse merge for preference as they were probably primarily missionaries, though they fulfilled that role through teaching. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:30, 10 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Royal Order of the Engabu
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:02, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/"Listifying" Category:Recipients of the Royal Order of the Engabu
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD & WP:SMALLCAT)
 * The Royal Order of the Engabu was established in 2010 by the Bunyoro kingdom within Uganda. The only article in the category, Muedzul Lail Tan Kiram, is a local royal from the Philippines with no clear connection to Uganda or Africa in general so I'm not sure why he received it. I don't know if I can say the category is "listified" since there is only 1 article but it is now linked here in the main article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete, again an obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:13, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete another case of over cat by award.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:49, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Honorary graduates of Keele University
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:01, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Upmerging Category:Honorary graduates of Keele University to Category:People associated with Keele University
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD and WP:SMALLCAT)
 * The only article in this category is Neil Baldwin (Keele University), a person with learning disabilities who was "adopted by the student body over the last 50 years as something of a mascot for Keele". Mr. Baldwin is definitely defined by his association with the school and received other awards like an honorary membership into the student body and a testimonial match, but these honours don't seem individually defining. There is no 2nd person with learning disabilities who became a Keele school mascot so this category has no growth potential, unless we add people who received honorary degrees for donating money which we've consistently found non-defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Background We've previously deleted the other categories for honorary degree recipients, including here, here and here, but this was just created last month. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NONDEF and per precedent. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:18, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NONDEF....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:18, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete This is not defining. Do not merge it. Some of these people get the award just because they are a speaker at commencement. Thus in their entire lives they are connected with the university for one day. This is not a connection that is defining. To give some examples I know well, Barack Obama was giving an honorary award when he spoke at commencement for the University of Notre Dame this was a huge controversy at U of ND because Obama supports the legal killing of unborn children through all 9 months of pregnancy for any reason, a very different position that that of the Church that sponsors Notre Dame. In the grand scheme of things this incident and its aftermath may be defining to Notre Dame, and probably at least worth mentioning in the article on that institution, it is not big enough to be defining to Obama. Another case, Thomas S. Monson spoke at commencement at Southern Utah University, this is not at all defining to Monson.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:53, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, as receiving a honorary degree is not defining. Neil Baldwin (Keele University) is already in Category:People associated with Keele University because of his specific association to the university as a mascot, not because of the honorary degree. Place Clichy (talk) 14:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete -- Having an honorary degree is generally not defining. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:32, 10 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.