Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 July 22



Category:Fictional characters who go barefoot

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  bibliomaniac  1  5  04:36, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting fictional characters who go barefoot
 * Nominator's rationale: Unneeded category. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him 20:34, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. Disclaimer: I saw this post on Discord. The category is non-defining; no sources will refer to these characters as having "barefoot" as one of their essential qualities. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 21:03, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Strong delete as WP:TRIVIALCAT and WP:NONDEFINING. And subjective/arbitrary for characters who go barefoot sometimes but not all the time. Akin to deleted categories for famous redheads and bald people. --Animalparty! (talk) 00:53, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Joke category.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 07:07, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Looking for a speedy reason, but we can wait a week with WP:TRIVIALCAT . - RevelationDirect (talk) 23:01, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete as trivial. It might very rarely be defining, but not often enough to need a category.  Peterkingiron (talk) 11:41, 24 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Novels by Steven Seagal

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep.  bibliomaniac  1  5  04:38, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting novels by steven seagal
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. Only one article in the category. And this one entry doesn't require a category like Category:Steven Seagal albums where although there are two entries, it has as a variety to a degree. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 18:41, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment I created this category because it seemed better suited than the article being placed in the eponymous . I also noticed there was precedent with over 100 single article entries within subcategories of . Thanks. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 18:53, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * From my count I found 165 categories including this one that have one entry like this. However, this one doesn't really have reason to stay as Seagal is not really a writer by trade.
 * But then should it be upmerged to a non-meaningful category like or create a "Works by" category and put the albums category there, too? Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 20:34, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it's best for the novel to be categorized under Steven Seagal's main category. Because if it were to be a works by category then it would useless since works by is usually a container category. There aren't many articles that would require one. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 20:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:SMALLCAT. It's amazing how many times the brief WP:SMALLCAT is misquoted at cfd when its single sentence includes "unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme." The "large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme" in this case is . Oculi (talk) 01:37, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per Oculi.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 07:07, 23 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Myrath
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 July 30%23Category:Myrath

Category:Fictional American people by religion

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:13, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting fictional american people by religion
 * Nominator's rationale: Other categories for Fictional characters by religion were deleted per Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_June_13. The subcat of this one can be kept as part of "by ethnicity". – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:24, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom.--User:Namiba 16:26, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom Grutness... wha?   14:06, 23 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sports in Citrus Heights, California

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: double merge (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:14, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Sports in Citrus Heights, California to Category:Citrus Heights, California
 * Nominator's rationale: Dual merge to . Per WP:SMALLCAT; category contains only 2 articles and the team based in the city went defunct after one season. User:Namiba 14:39, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Double Merge as proposed in acordance with WP:SMALLCAT. Taxman1913 (talk) 20:34, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People with Alzheimer's disease

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:19, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting Category:People with Alzheimer's disease
 * Propose Retaining and Selectively Reparenting Category:Deaths from Alzheimer's disease directly under Category:Alzheimer's disease
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NOT, WP:COP and WP:NONDEFINING (WP:TRIVIALCAT, WP:PERFCAT)
 * According to the Alzheimer's disease article, the condition is typically fatal in 3-9 years so we're really categorizing living people who haven't died of Alzheimer's disease yet or people who died in the mean time of something else which the category header makes clear:
 * "For people who have or who had Alzheimer's disease. If their death is directly related to Alzheimer's, add the person to Category:Deaths from Alzheimer's disease. If a person with Alzheimer's died from something unrelated to Alzheimer's, add them here."
 * The bigger problem is that this awful disease usually occurs later in life and these biographies are notable because of unrelated accomplishments earlier in life. For instance, actor Omar Sharif, footballer Brian Pilkington, and Patriarch of Constantinople Mesrob II Mutafyan have only passing references to the disease. Wikipedia is not for tracking every non-fatal medical condition of notable people. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:03, 20 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I am not sure I understand the proposal with respect to the selective reparenting, moving biographies to a topic category does not seem a great idea. Generally, people with Alzheimer usually do not die from Alzheimer but rather with Alzheimer, i.e. having Alzheimer is more defining than dying. Alt 1: merge Category:Deaths from Alzheimer's disease to Category:People with Alzheimer's disease; alt 2: delete both. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:46, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Since Category:Deaths from Alzheimer's disease is under the nominated category, I thought deaths subcat should be retained and kept under the topic tree, not that loose biographies be placed directly into Category:Alzheimer's disease. I meant this as a cleanup note since that doesn't require CFD action that was not tagged but is now; whether you agree with the suggestion or not, let me know if there is a clearer way to communicate it. - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:02, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The word "retaining" makes it much clearer indeed. I thought you meant reparenting certain individual articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:04, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep both cats as they are. If the subject of a bio has been diagnosed with the condition, it's relevant to their life & hence their article. Jim Michael (talk) 06:08, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep both categories as they are. Although, the subject’s cause of death is an external factor. The factor itself is usually brought on by Alzheimer’s disease. I also don’t see this discussion occurring in regards to Parkinson’s disease. 20SS00 (talk) 10:25, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. Having Alzheimer's disease is not defining. Rathfelder (talk) 23:04, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  13:58, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Like most "deaths from" and other disease-related categories, this is non-defining as Wikipedia defines the term. As to the argument that "it's relevant," that's not how it works here. "...defining characteristic is one that reliable, secondary sources commonly and consistently define, in prose, the subject as having. For example: "Subject is an adjective noun ..." or "Subject, an adjective noun, ...". If such examples are common, each of adjective and noun may be deemed to be "defining" for subject. if the characteristic would not be appropriate to mention in the lead portion of an article, it is probably not defining;"--User:Namiba 14:43, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NONDEFINING and WP:COPDEF. I say delete as well. The fact that there are many other categories for verifiable but non-defining and/or trivial medical conditions or manners of death that haven't yet been deleted does not make this one any more defining. The fastidious hyper- and over-categorization by trivia-fascinated Wikipedians needs to be stymied. We shouldn't categorize things just because a category can be imagined. --Animalparty! (talk) 03:19, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete This is jugely non-defining. A very large percentage of people who develop Alzheimer's will have been notable long before they developed it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:58, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep both categories as they are for the same reason as I stated above. Also, this discussion has been going on now for nearly a month and a half and I hardly see any consensus or decisions whatsoever being reached. I think it’s just best to leave the categories as they are. 20SS00 (talk) 15:16, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * You aren't allowed to vote twice.--User:Namiba 15:27, 2 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep I agree with Jim Michael. This a defining aspect of one's biography, and should be easily verified. In general we need more categories for medical conditions and causes of death. I would support recreating some categories deleted for absurd reasons. Dimadick (talk) 21:44, 6 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Films directed by T. Guru Prasad

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: soft delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:19, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting films directed by t. guru prasad
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. It has only film, and the article T Guru Prasad does not exist anymore. -- Ab207 (talk) 13:53, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Songs with lyrics by Jack Lawrence

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep without objection to create Category:Songs written by Jack Lawrence as a subcategory (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:25, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Songs with lyrics by Jack Lawrence to Category:Songs written by Jack Lawrence
 * Nominator's rationale: Jack Lawrence was sole songwriter on many of the entries, ie he wrote songs, not parts of songs. Richhoncho (talk) 15:56, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose I've checked the 13 entries and a lot of them are: not song but lyrics only by Jack Lawrence. The nominator has made a careless job to forget to check himself. --Just N. (talk) 08:19, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 20:05, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Split those songs writen wholly by Jack Lawrence to a new subcategory. Could you give a detailed breakdown of the entries? –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 20:10, 22 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Support renaming per Category:Songs by songwriter; songs in this category are solely ones written by Lawrence (I'm not entirely aware what the difference is, but I'm sure it exists for a reason). I assume that whoever made the category saw the parent category, Category:Songs by lyricist, and (incorrectly) followed that scheme. Sean Stephens (talk) 00:50, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * and . Firstly I did not do a 'careless job' checking what contributions Jack Lawrence made, I made it quite clear in the nomination.
 * Lawrence is a songwriter, he can contribute words, music or both together. The whole reason I did not wish to split the category is that Lawrence contributed to these songs, and where known, the articles state what his contribution was (as Justin as demonstrated) otherwise we are left with Category:Songs written by JL, Category:Songs with lyrics by JL, Category:Songs with music by JL and Category:Songs that JL contributed to, but WP is not aware of what!.
 * And for those who wish to split, are you intending to propose that all categories should be split according to contribution to specific songs. You guys are going to be working on the Lennon-McCartney & Jagger-Richard categories until the end of time . You have got some serious work to do – and not a living soul will benefit.
 * Keeping all the JL compositions together is logical, helpful and easier for the user. Why create problems?--Richhoncho (talk) 17:02, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

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 * Comment Sorry to say it again. If anyone huddles together compositions and lyrics authoring that is to be named as *careless*! Which is what the nominator repeatedly has done and even defended as the right thing to do. No, is is not "Keeping all the JL compositions together" as in actual fact a lot of the entries are not at all JL's compositions. What is so difficult to understand or to accept about my veto *Keep to the facts!* ? --Just N. (talk) 10:55, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  13:45, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Sunrise Serenade is a song written by someone else, with lyrics by Jack Lawrence, so the rename doesn't work. We just need the subcat Category:Songs written by Jack Lawrence of Category:Songs with lyrics by Jack Lawrence, as LaundryPizza03 says. Oculi (talk) 14:49, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Law clerks of Judge Learned Hand
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 July 30%23Category:Law clerks of Judge Learned Hand

Category:Localities in Salem, Tamil Nadu
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: split.  ✗  plicit  14:48, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose splitting Category:Localities in Salem, Tamil Nadu to Category:Neighbourhoods in Salem, Tamil Nadu, Category:Cities and towns in Salem district and Category:Villages in Salem district
 * Nominator's rationale: This category was speedily renamed from "Localities in Salem", which was ambiguous, but is still too vague to be useful, and contains a mixture of places in the city Category:Salem, Tamil Nadu and places in Category:Salem district. Other cities have either "Neighbourhoods in" or "Neighbourhoods and suburbs of", see Category:Neighbourhoods in Tamil Nadu. – Fayenatic  L ondon 09:37, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment see also Category:Localities in Madurai created by same user. --Bejnar (talk) 15:04, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Split per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:09, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, &#8213; Qwerfjkl talk  11:20, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Split Before I clicked on this, I assumed it was a parent category but it's just mixing things that are separate in other more specific categories. This does not make navigational sense as a non-diffusing category. - RevelationDirect (talk) 11:50, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Split per nom. The city and the district must have seperate categories. -- Ab207 (talk) 13:55, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose this change -- Some years ago we stopped having categories for towns, cities and villages, due to the difficulties of defining boundaries: I live in a village of over 6000 people in a county where there are market towns of 2000 people. Instead merge subject and all targets to Category:Populated places in Salem, Tamil Nadu.  Peterkingiron (talk) 11:54, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
 * In principle I think you are right. But this discussion is about splitting between district level and city level, not between villages and towns at district level. Category:Cities and towns in Salem district and Category:Villages in Salem district already exist as separate categories and merging them would require a separate nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:23, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If we were doing that, the target would have to be Category:Populated places in Salem district rather than in the city; but it is beyond the scope of this nomination. Category:Populated places in India goes down to the state level, not to districts. You might want to start an RFC on your proposal. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:00, 29 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:LafargeHolcim
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 12:41, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:LafargeHolcim to Category:Holcim Group
 * Nominator's rationale: LafargeHolcim has been renamed to Holcim Group on 8 July 2021. Ridwan97 (talk) 05:01, 22 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Defer to RM We currently have an open WP:RM at Talk:Holcim (2015–present) to rename that to "Holcim Group". We should defer to that outcome of that venue, whether I agree with the rename or not. RevelationDirect (talk) 11:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The page has been already named Holcim Group. Approve the change of the category page name related to the company.Ridwan97 (talk) 06:54, 30 July 2021 (UTC)


 * do you have any idea where the RM went? At Talk:Holcim (2015–present) there is a link that loops back to itself. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * kinda of a disagreement. Just proceed the category name to "Holcim Group". Ridwan97 (talk) 11:31, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I spent a good 5 minutes going in circles looking at edit histories. A related page (Talk:Holcim) was notified of the RM and then, after the RM was closed, the redirect was accidentally pointed to that same talk page instead of to Talk:Holcim Group. All fixed now! - RevelationDirect (talk) 09:52, 7 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Speedy Rename Per WP:C2D. The article was recently renamed per RM consensus at Talk:Holcim Group. - RevelationDirect (talk) 09:52, 7 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Han dynasty people related to the Three Kingdoms
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 August 26%23Category:Han dynasty people related to the Three Kingdoms