Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 July 29



Category:Wikipedian ophthalmologist

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  bibliomaniac  1  5  19:34, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

wikipedian ophthalmologist
 * Propose renaming Category:Wikipedian ophthalmologist to Category:Wikipedian ophthalmologists
 * Nominator's rationale: grammar, to comply with all other entries in Category:Wikipedians by profession. It should be plural. -- Shibboleth ink (♔ ♕) 23:12, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support. I disagree with the "plural" style of all the other entries in Category:Wikipedians by profession, but agree that at least it should be consistent across the board. Vitreology   talk  23:34, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete as a single-user category containing only its creator, who has made no ophthalmology-related edits (other than the above comment) in over a year. A merge to Category:Wikipedians interested in medicine isn't necessary as they are already in that category. If kept, Rename per nom. * Pppery * it has begun... 00:59, 30 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom and plural convention for list categories, if kept. Oculi (talk) 11:31, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per Pppery - jc37 13:10, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per Pppery. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Private Colleges

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:20, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting private colleges
 * Nominator's rationale: This just-created category duplicates the longstanding Category:Private universities and colleges. Category:Private universities already had cat redirect and I just created Category:Private colleges with the same. This page, having improper capitalization, should be deleted. The six pages added to this category appear to be already categorized under subcategories (see WP:SPECIFICCAT). &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 18:48, 29 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Speedy Delete - The category creator - User:Maruf Hossain - appears to have emptied the cat and blanked the page. See this edit summary -  - jc37 13:14, 30 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Knots and links by knot invariant

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  ✗  plicit  08:25, 4 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming Category:0 Arf invariant knots and links to Category:Knots and links with Arf invariant 0
 * Propose renaming Category:1 Arf invariant knots and links to Category:Knots and links with Arf invariant 1


 * Propose renaming Category:2 braid length knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid length 2
 * Propose renaming Category:3 braid length knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid length 3
 * Propose renaming Category:4 braid length knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid length 4
 * Propose renaming Category:5 braid length knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid length 5
 * Propose renaming Category:6 braid length knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid length 6
 * Propose renaming Category:7 braid length knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid length 7
 * Propose renaming Category:8 braid length knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid length 8
 * Propose renaming Category:9 braid length knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid length 9
 * Propose renaming Category:10 braid length knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid length 10


 * Propose renaming Category:1 braid number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid number 1
 * Propose renaming Category:2 braid number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid number 2
 * Propose renaming Category:3 braid number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid number 3
 * Propose renaming Category:4 braid number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with braid number 4


 * Propose renaming Category:0 bridge number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with bridge number 0
 * Propose renaming Category:2 bridge number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with bridge number 2
 * Propose renaming Category:3 bridge number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with bridge number 3


 * Propose renaming Category:1 crosscap number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crosscap number 1
 * Propose renaming Category:2 crosscap number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crosscap number 2
 * Propose renaming Category:3 crosscap number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crosscap number 3
 * Propose renaming Category:4 crosscap number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crosscap number 4


 * Propose renaming Category:0 crossing number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crossing number 0
 * Propose renaming Category:2 crossing number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crossing number 2
 * Propose renaming Category:3 crossing number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crossing number 3
 * Propose renaming Category:4 crossing number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crossing number 4
 * Propose renaming Category:5 crossing number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crossing number 5
 * Propose renaming Category:6 crossing number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crossing number 6
 * Propose renaming Category:7 crossing number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crossing number 7
 * Propose renaming Category:8 crossing number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crossing number 8
 * Propose renaming Category:10 crossing number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crossing number 10
 * Propose renaming Category:11 crossing number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crossing number 11
 * Propose renaming Category:12 crossing number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with crossing number 12


 * Propose renaming Category:0 genus knots and links to Category:Knots and links with genus 0
 * Propose renaming Category:1 genus knots and links to Category:Knots and links with genus 1
 * Propose renaming Category:2 genus knots and links to Category:Knots and links with genus 2
 * Propose renaming Category:3 genus knots and links to Category:Knots and links with genus 3
 * Propose renaming Category:4 genus knots and links to Category:Knots and links with genus 4


 * Propose renaming Category:3 stick number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with stick number 3
 * Propose renaming Category:6 stick number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with stick number 6
 * Propose renaming Category:7 stick number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with stick number 7
 * Propose renaming Category:8 stick number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with stick number 8
 * Propose renaming Category:9 stick number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with stick number 9
 * Propose renaming Category:10 stick number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with stick number 10
 * Propose renaming Category:11 stick number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with stick number 11


 * Propose renaming Category:0 tunnel number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with tunnel number 0
 * Propose renaming Category:1 tunnel number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with tunnel number 1


 * Propose renaming Category:0 unknotting number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with unknotting number 0
 * Propose renaming Category:1 unknotting number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with unknotting number 1
 * Propose renaming Category:2 unknotting number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with unknotting number 2
 * Propose renaming Category:3 unknotting number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with unknotting number 3
 * Propose renaming Category:4 unknotting number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with unknotting number 4
 * Propose renaming Category:5 unknotting number knots and links to Category:Knots and links with unknotting number 5


 * Propose renaming Category:0 linking number links to Category:Links with linking number 0
 * Propose renaming Category:1 linking number links to Category:Links with linking number 1


 * Nominator's rationale: Ungrammatical naming convention. Most WP:SMALLCAT instances are probably due to incomplete categorization of our articles on knots and links. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 17:06, 29 July 2021 (UTC)


 * UpMerge/Delete all these links and knots number cats - These should be a list per WP:CLS. Noting that List of mathematical knots and links already exists and could be expanded as necessary. - jc37 13:09, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete all, this causes an unreasonable amount of category clutter in the articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:28, 30 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Passenger coaches

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Passenger railroad cars per the RM passing on the main article.  bibliomaniac  1  5  19:41, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Passenger coaches to Category:Passenger cars (rail)
 * Nominator's rationale: This tree is currently using 3 different names. The article uses Passenger car (rail), the main category Category:Passenger coaches, while a sub-category Category:Railway coaches by country‎.
 * So we have "Passenger car (rail)", "Passenger coaches", and "Railway coaches". All 3 names redirect to the main article. Should the category be renamed to match the parent article (C2D)? Should it be renamed to match its sub-category? Or should it stay like this and have a situation where article and category are named completely different? Gonnym (talk) 09:28, 21 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename Passenger car (rail) has been at that name since it was created in 2004; that's a rare island of stability in Wikipedia. The entire tree should follow the main article per WP:C2D with potential country exceptions if there's a clear WP:ENGVAR with "passenger coaches". - RevelationDirect (talk) 10:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename etc per RevelationDirect. Oculi (talk) 10:30, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep as "coach" is the official and most common term used by the International Union of Railways - see for example their "List of Reports & Technical Documents" in which "passenger coach" appears 29 times whereas "passenger car" is absent. Examples of their reports include "Strength of Bodies of Passenger Coaches" and "Winter Problems on Passenger Coaches". Specifically their international thesaurus only mentions coaches in this context. "Passenger car" is primarily a North American term, so I think it may now be time to internationalise the article as well as the category. Bermicourt (talk) 13:19, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If the main article doesn't reflect a global viewpoint, the right venue is an WP:RM at Talk:Passenger car (rail). If that passes, then you can speedy rename all thee categories per WP:C2D. - RevelationDirect (talk) 17:11, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 15:49, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep -- This is an ENGVAR issue, something not necessarily resolved in favour of American usage. Rename main article - I would suggest the target should be Railway coach, as passenger coach can be a road vehicle and I think Americans may use car for goods waggons.  Peterkingiron (talk) 11:30, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
 * You are correct that the term car for freight railcars (goods waggons) is used in America (as well as Canada and Mexico). Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:15, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per Peterkingiron. -- This seems to be an ENGVAR issue indeed. --Just N. (talk) 19:52, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per RevelationDirect. Additionally, Passenger cars (rail) makes it more clear that the subject is railroad related as opposed to road transport related compared to the current name. If this category is not renamed to Passenger cars (rail), then I support Peterkingiron's proposed solution. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:15, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Further comment "Passenger car (rail)" is a meaningless term in British English, where a car is driven on a road. We understand cable cars.  Peterkingiron (talk) 20:40, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * `Use "coaches" and RM article - coach is the international standard and the category tree should follow. Grutness... wha?   02:03, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * See RM here. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:42, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Passenger railroad cars per the proposal at the RM to rename that page to Passenger railroad car per the name of the top-level page: Railroad car. - jc37 22:09, 13 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Male artists

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus.  ✗  plicit  08:25, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting male artists
 * Also propose deleting subcategories:
 * male painters
 * male sculptors
 * male artists by nationality
 * male artists by century


 * Category:19th-century male artists
 * Category:20th-century male artists
 * Category:21st-century male artists
 * Category:Male painters by nationality
 * Category:Albanian male painters
 * Category:American male painters
 * Category:Argentine male painters
 * Category:Australian male painters
 * Category:Austrian male painters
 * Category:British male painters
 * Category:Canadian male painters
 * Category:Chilean male painters
 * Category:Colombian male painters
 * Category:Croatian male painters
 * Category:Czech male painters
 * Category:Danish male painters
 * Category:Dutch male painters
 * Category:English male painters
 * Category:Finnish male painters
 * Category:French male painters
 * Category:German male painters
 * Category:Greek male painters
 * Category:Haitian male painters
 * Category:Hungarian male painters
 * Category:Indian male painters
 * Category:Irish male painters
 * Category:Italian male painters
 * Category:Mexican male painters
 * Category:Norwegian male painters
 * Category:Peruvian male painters
 * Category:Polish male painters
 * Category:Portuguese male painters
 * Category:Russian male painters
 * Category:Scottish male painters
 * Category:Serbian male painters
 * Category:Slovenian male painters
 * Category:South African male painters
 * Category:Spanish male painters
 * Category:Swedish male painters
 * Category:Swiss male painters
 * Category:Turkish male painters
 * Category:Ukrainian male painters
 * Category:Welsh male painters
 * Category:Male sculptors by nationality
 * Category:American male sculptors
 * Category:Austrian male sculptors
 * Category:British male sculptors
 * Category:Canadian male sculptors
 * Category:Czech male sculptors
 * Category:Dutch male sculptors
 * Category:English male sculptors
 * Category:French male sculptors
 * Category:German male sculptors
 * Category:Indian male sculptors
 * Category:Italian male sculptors
 * Category:Russian male sculptors
 * Category:Scottish male sculptors
 * Category:Spanish male sculptors
 * Category:Swedish male sculptors
 * Category:Turkish male sculptors
 * Category:Ukrainian male sculptors
 * Category:Albanian male artists
 * Category:American male artists
 * Category:Argentine male artists
 * Category:Australian male artists
 * Category:Austrian male artists
 * Category:Brazilian male artists
 * Category:British male artists
 * Category:Canadian male artists
 * Category:Chilean male artists
 * Category:Croatian male artists
 * Category:Czech male artists
 * Category:Danish male artists
 * Category:Dominican Republic male artists
 * Category:Dutch male artists
 * Category:Emirati male artists
 * Category:English male artists
 * Category:Finnish male artists
 * Category:French male artists
 * Category:German male artists
 * Category:Ghanaian male artists
 * Category:Haitian male artists
 * Category:Hungarian male artists
 * Category:Indian male artists
 * Category:Irish male artists
 * Category:Italian male artists
 * Category:Mexican male artists
 * Category:Norwegian male artists
 * Category:Polish male artists
 * Category:Russian male artists
 * Category:Scottish male artists
 * Category:Serbian male artists
 * Category:Slovenian male artists
 * Category:South African male artists
 * Category:Spanish male artists
 * Category:Swedish male artists
 * Category:Swiss male artists
 * Category:Syrian male artists
 * Category:Turkish male artists
 * Category:Ukrainian male artists
 * Category:Uruguayan male artists
 * Category:Welsh male artists


 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:CATGENDER. The vast majority of artists historically have been men so there is nothing notable about being a male artist, nor are there events, organizations, or awards specifically for male artists. It makes sense for there to be a women artists category‎, but as WP:CATGENDER explains, there is no need to balance that against a male category. This also applies to the subcategories under Male artists. Nosferattus (talk) 15:18, 29 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The last sentence of CATGENDER is really something. In a paragraph otherwise about sports, we just say "yeah, these ones are separate too". We could add other things to that sentence if we were so inclined, like Category:Male singers and Category:Female singers. Artists would not seem to be out of place with such company. And while I certainly appreciate that Wikipedia is a tertiary source that follows rather than leads, I'm wary of actions that further entrench our systemic bias. --BDD (talk) 15:55, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Procedural comment, the subcategories should be nominated too. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:34, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I've added the 4 direct subcategories and put notices on them. Unfortunately, there are dozens of subcategories under those, so I don't think it's practical to add all of them. Nosferattus (talk) 20:04, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I have added the remaining ones. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:15, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support in principle, per nom. Artists do not perform separately by gender, like sportspeople do, or monks and nuns. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:36, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete In general sex is not defining to artists.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:09, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep all of them. They make navigation of Wikipedia easier for users. It is very helpful for finding male artists. It is a non-diffusing subcategory anyway. Helpfulwikieditoryay (talk) 18:57, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Every category makes navigation easier, that it is not an argument for keeping. At the same time, on the negative side, every category contributes to more category clutter in the articles so we should be selective. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:31, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The point of categories is to make navigation easier. That's the argument for keeping them. Male and female are very reasonable and much needed categoires to sort things by. If we delete male, we have to delete female too. Then it would be very difficult for people to find male or female artists. This suggestion to delete them is really bad. Helpfulwikieditoryay (talk) 05:55, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
 * No, WP:CATGENDER explicitly says they do not need to be balanced. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:24, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * You are misunderstanding. They don't need to be balanced for the sake of balance. I said women's artists would need to be deleted under the same logic of deleting men's artists. Helpfulwikieditoryay (talk) 05:42, 7 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep I'll make this official. "The vast majority of artists historically have been men" is wrongheaded, and this move would absolutely further entrench our systemic bias. It's probably worth discussing clarification to CATGENDER. --BDD (talk) 14:58, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I doubt if there is reliable data about gender distribution of artists throughout the centuries, but ultimately we do have a far higher number of articles about men artists than about women artists. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:36, 6 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. GreenComputer (talk) 07:52, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per, and as creator of at least some of these. We have been dinged in the past for segregating women of a certain profession into categories by gender without doing the same for men in the same profession. This is an attempt to respond to that concern. Yes, there are a lot more male artists than female, historically...even so, if we're going to categorize by one gender we need to start thinking about doing so by both more broadly. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:45, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * We categorise women by occupation, mostly, because they are, or were, in a minority. We dont need to do that with male categories. In some professions - acting and singing for example - there are clearly male and female roles and we categorise both. I dont see that we need to do that with artists. Rathfelder (talk) 19:31, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. While I do understand that most women categories were created because they are generally in a minority as far as articles go, I actually do think that categories should make navigation easier. If the nominator's argument is that it makes sense for there to be a women artists category‎, but not a male category, then I am somewhat lost. If there is women artists category‎, then there would inveitably be a male artists category, even if it isn't titled that. So, just leave it for ease of navigation. ExRat (talk) 16:47, 3 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Trigender Wikipedians

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:34, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting trigender wikipedians
 * Nominator's rationale: Similar to Categories for discussion/Log/2021 July 28, this category has existed for 5 years and only contains two users. One is indefinitely blocked as a shared account, and the other has made no edits since January 2020. Both are already in Category:Non-binary Wikipedians, so a merge is not necessary. * Pppery * it has begun... 13:42, 29 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:20, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Spare me. Laurel Lodged (talk) 17:30, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 22:22, 13 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:2020s in Cesena
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: soft delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 13:12, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting 2020s in cesena
 * Nominator's rationale: There's not any actual significant events for the category and the 1 page in the category is already in other more specific categories DemonStalker (talk) 02:51, 29 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:2001 NASCAR Busch Series
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:NASCAR Xfinity Series and Category:2001 in NASCAR.  ✗  plicit  08:25, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:2001 NASCAR Busch Series to Category:NASCAR Busch Series
 * Nominator's rationale: Change to follow form of other NASCAR Series Categories DemonStalker (talk) 02:17, 29 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently only one article. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:15, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * NASCAR Busch Series now redirects to NASCAR Xfinity Series, and there is Category:Xfinity Series seasons; but the member article is only the first event of the 2001 series, not the series article 2001 NASCAR Busch Series. Could keep and populate, adding the lead article 2001 NASCAR Busch Series, but that would still only leave two articles in the category. Merge to Category:NASCAR Xfinity Series and Category:2001 in NASCAR. – Fayenatic  L ondon 06:17, 4 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.