Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 July 4



Category:Silatranes

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: dual merge (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 18:52, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Silatranes to Category:Atranes
 * Nominator's rationale: Not enough content to justify a. Can't be merged further because the atranes don't fit anywhere but in Category:Heterocyclic compounds (3 rings). –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 21:57, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Question to Category:Silicon heterocycles is another parent category, shouldn't that also be a merge target? Marcocapelle (talk) 17:47, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Of course. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 20:21, 12 July 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Holocaust deniers by nationality

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge all into Category:Holocaust deniers only.  bibliomaniac  1  5  17:32, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Argentine Holocaust deniers to Category:Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Brazilian Holocaust deniers to Category:Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Bulgarian Holocaust deniers to Category:European Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Dutch Holocaust deniers to Category:European Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Egyptian Holocaust deniers to Category:Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Emirati Holocaust deniers to Category:Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Estonian Holocaust deniers to Category:European Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Filipino Holocaust deniers to Category:Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Italian Holocaust deniers to Category:European Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Lebanese Holocaust deniers to Category:Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Maltese Holocaust deniers to Category:European Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Mexican Holocaust deniers to Category:Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Polish Holocaust deniers to Category:European Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:South African Holocaust deniers to Category:Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Spanish Holocaust deniers to Category:European Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Turkish Holocaust deniers to Category:Holocaust deniers
 * Propose merging Category:Ukrainian Holocaust deniers to Category:European Holocaust deniers
 * Nominator's rationale: Category:Holocaust deniers is overly diffused by nationality into many subcats by nationality, mostly with 1 or 2 pages. However, there are enough articles in the entire tree (including larger subcats by nationality) to justify a subcat for all European countries. –Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 21:50, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Double merge all into and their respective subcats of  (with no prejudice against re-creation if enough of these people crawl out from the woodwork). We don't need a European category - it's just add an extra layer and the main cat is hardly likely to be so full as to cause problems. Note that some of the conspiracy theory categories are also dwindlingly small.Grutness...  wha?   06:28, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Double merge without creating a European intermediate layer, per Grutness. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:51, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Holocaust deniers only. While Holocaust denier is a clear and defining characteristic that is even legally defined in many countries, adding articles to would in many cases not apply as it is an imprecise term or covers too many different things. E.g.  is currently placed in  for being the chair of an organization which hosted a Holocaust denying symposium, but it would be quite a stretch to describe him as a conspiracy theorist. I agree there is no need for an intermediate European level. Place Clichy (talk) 00:23, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge all to Holocaust denier category. We do not have enough to justify placement elsewhere. Holocaust denial does not exactly work with the term "conspiracy theory", which is inprecise at best. For example, one conspiracy theory is that the events of September 11th did not happen as officially reported. The issue there is, that the official report recognizes that there was a conspiracy. So those who are not labeled "conspiracy theorists" in that case do not actually deny there was a conspiracy, they just argue it was a conspiracy between the hijackers themselves and various radiacal Islamists. In the case of the Holocaust as well, the underlying point of the Historical view is that Adolph Hitler and many associates conspired with the goal of killing all of European Jewry and also all of European Gypsydom,and with a secondary goal of reducing the Poles and possible other Slavic people to a permanent lower status within a new Germany. In some ways Holocaust deniers are actual "anti-conspiracy theorists" because they posit that a conspiracy by Hitler did not exist, and he did not actively organize to achieve these goals. Many also posit a conspiracy at the time or since then by some elements to falsely argue that the conspiracy headed by Hitler did in fact exist. Now a straight forward case of seeing a conspiracy theoriist in action is the death of John F. Kennedy where he was killed by a lone gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald, who acted on his own initiative and there is no credible evidence he ever shared his plans to kill the president with anyone else, but people have for over 55 years been trying to prove that Oswald coordinated the attack with others despite the total lack of evidence to support such an assertion.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:27, 29 July 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Holocaust denial in Japan
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. In addition I will boldly add the article to Category:Holocaust denial. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 17:50, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Holocaust denial in Japan to Category:Antisemitism in Japan
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT, only article is Shūkanshi. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 21:35, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Rattan Lal
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 * The result of the discussion was: speedily deleted WP:G7. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:10, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting Category:Rattan Lal
 * Nominator's rationale: Category only has one page. Not worthy of creation to begin with. No other articles or mainspaces exist on Wikipedia for there to be a category for this individual. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 20:56, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


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East Berlin
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge.  ✗  plicit  13:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Events in East Berlin to Category:East Berlin and Category:Events in Berlin
 * Propose merging Category:Decades in East Berlin to Category:East Berlin and Category:Decades in Berlin
 * Propose merging Category:1960s in East Berlin to Category:East Berlin and Category:1960s in Berlin
 * Propose merging Category:1970s in East Berlin to Category:East Berlin and Category:1970s in Berlin
 * Propose merging Category:1980s in East Berlin to Category:East Berlin and Category:1980s in Berlin
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, these are five categories for a total of eleven articles, most of which already are in Category:Sports competitions in East Berlin. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:34, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Support these. East Berlin was not an entity long enough to divide in this way Rathfelder (talk) 10:50, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:19, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 00:23, 17 July 2021 (UTC)


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Category:American yoga celebrities
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge.  ✗  plicit  13:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:American yoga celebrities to Category:American yoga teachers
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, we do not categorize "celebrities" per WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. Besides, one might argue that everyone who is notable and gets an article in Wikipedia is by definition a celebrity. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:19, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 *  Keep Merge - Marco, I don't care what this is called, "American yoga gurus" (sounds to me a bit too Indian), "American yoga leaders" or whatever, but the million-follower big cheeses of American yoga are not just "notable" (having garnered 3 wobbly sources in regional newspapers) but hugely important, having often worldwide influence, great wealth, their own suite of hundreds of yoga schools, the temptation behind the lamentable sexual abuse by yoga gurus, and so on and so forth. I'm actually really disappointed, given our discussion, that you should immediately have brought this to CfD. People like Pierre Bernard were notorious in their day, and I don't mean 3 wobbly regional newspaper articles notable. We need a category for the rather small number of leading American yoga figures (see Yoga in the United States for details and citations) who ride the world stage. Calling them "teachers" is basically a confusion; sure, they may do some teaching, but they project their image and their brand (see the book Selling Yoga by Andrea Jain on their brand management activities), write bestselling books, they are business people, they are indeed celebrities like Hollywood film stars in their way. This category will not be large but it is well-defined, well-documented in multiple reliable sources, and sharply distinct from the run-of-the-mill "Category:American yoga teachers". Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:06, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge; the above reply by Chiswick Chap asserts that the category "is well-defined", but does not demonstrate this by stating specific inclusion criteria. See WP:SUBJECTIVECAT and the rest of that page. For those who were notorious, it may be appropriate to create a sub-cat within the hierarchy Category:Scandals. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:23, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok, let's do that. A small number were indeed notorious. Chiswick Chap (talk) 02:19, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * It would be even better (if applicable) to create a subcategory for convicted people. If not convicted it may lead to BLP issues. See e.g. Category:Hindu religious leaders convicted of crimes. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:38, 5 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 00:23, 17 July 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Decatur Baptist College alumni
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 July 18%23Category:Decatur Baptist College alumni

Category:Flyovers in Salem, Tamil Nadu
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 17:53, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Flyovers in Salem, Tamil Nadu to Category:Buildings and structures in Salem, Tamil Nadu
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT, only one entry so far. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:11, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:20, 7 July 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Sierra Nevada (U.S.)
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename. The subcategories were not properly tagged, so they will go through WP:CFDS.  ✗  plicit  13:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to Category:Sierra Nevada
 * Nominator's rationale: The main article was moved from Sierra Nevada (U.S.) to Sierra Nevada in April 2020. The category (and all other Sierra Nevada-related categories) should also be moved for the sake of consistency. Crossover1370  (talk &#124; contribs) 07:13, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * If renamed, keep a redirect. Editors who categorize with Hotcat will need the redirect. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:11, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Speedy rename per C2D. All subcategories should be speedy renamed as well. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 22:07, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. If renamed a hatnote will be required to point to . Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:43, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep as is There's a huge difference between Category:Sierra Nevada (U.S.), which is about geographical features of the Sierra Nevada area in the United States, and "things called Sierra Nevada or that aren't related to the former." It would be weird if Sierra Nevada geographical features were in the same category as say Sierra Nevada Brewing Company. They have nothing in common. If anything the main article being moved in 2020 was the wrong thing to do. But I don't think this is a good solution. --Adamant1 (talk) 10:33, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Speedy Rename per WP:C2D. While I definitely share Adamant1's concern about the earlier rename of the main article, the place to fix a bad WP:RM is with a better WP:RM not by changing venues. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:44, 17 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Mass media in Bydgoszcz
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge.  ✗  plicit  13:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Mass media in Bydgoszcz to Category:Bydgoszcz
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently one article in it. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 07:36, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 01:39, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge Per nom. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:45, 17 July 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Factories in Bydgoszcz
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge.  ✗  plicit  13:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Factories in Bydgoszcz to Category:Buildings and structures in Bydgoszcz
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:39, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 07:36, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Is the subcategory, Category:Former factories in Bydgoszcz, worth keeping? - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:38, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not sure. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:32, 5 July 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Communications ministers of Israel
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename.  ✗  plicit  13:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Communications ministers of Israel to Category:Ministers of Communications of Israel
 * Nominator's rationale: Like the other Israeli minister categories. Quacelinz3 (talk) 03:56, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename per WP:C2C. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:55, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * rename per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 01:39, 13 July 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Culture ministers of Israel
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename.  ✗  plicit  13:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Culture ministers of Israel to Category:Ministers of Culture of Israel
 * Nominator's rationale: Like the other Israeli minister categories. Quacelinz3 (talk) 03:56, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename per WP:C2C. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:55, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * rename per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 01:39, 13 July 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Journalists of Pakistani descent
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  ✗  plicit  13:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting journalists of pakistani descent
 * Propose deleting british journalists of pakistani descent
 * Propose deleting canadian journalists of pakistani descent
 * Nominator's rationale: Non-defining triple intersections of nationality, occupation and ethnic descent. If a journalist is British or Canadian, then having a Pakistani ethnic background is not defining of their work as a journalist per se -- if they're a dual citizen of both Pakistan and either Britain or Canada, then they should certainly be categorized as both a Pakistani journalist and a British or Canadian journalist, but there's no value in trisecting all three traits. Bearcat (talk) 03:49, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Support. We should only categorise occupations by ethnicity where there is evidence that ethnicity affects practice.  And arguably Pakistani is not a well established ethnicity. Rathfelder (talk) 10:53, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:55, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 00:23, 17 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Old Mills and Granaries in Bydgoszcz
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  ✗  plicit  13:58, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting Category:Old Mills and Granaries in Bydgoszcz
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCLOCATION)
 * Most of this category contains street articles: Grodzka Street in Bydgoszcz goes past an old mill and granary, a bank, a church and a Holiday Inn hotel while Stary Port Street in Bydgoszcz goes past an old mill and granary, a post office, theatres, docks, and a sculpture. (The third article, Mill Island in Bydgoszcz, is actually about old mills and granaries in Bydgoszcz but it is now well categorized.) This is not a workable way of categorizing streets because of the category clutter it would eventually create. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:03, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Background We deleted a similar categories for roads that go by universities right here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:03, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. If by some aberrant whim the consensus is to keep, then the title's capitalisation will need changing. Grutness... wha?   02:44, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:40, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:21, 7 July 2021 (UTC)


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Category:People associated with Ostróda
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 17:56, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting Category:People associated with Ostróda
 * Nominator's rationale: Per the spirit of WP:C1, an empty category, and WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCASSOC)
 * Ostróda is a city in Poland and we've had the standard Category:People from Ostróda category although, as we recently discussed, even those "from" cats can be a bit ambiguous. This category takes that free association and embraces it by categorizing two football players (1, 2) neither of whom played for the local team or even mention this city in the articles so they shouldn't be in this category. I'm sure the category could be expanded with people who have various loose associations to the city but that runs smack into WP:OCASSOC. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:03, 4 July 2021 (UTC)


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