Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 June 7



Category:BCC crystal habit

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename all as nominated, except add "Chemical elements with" at the start of the proposed category names. Create a new Category:Chemical elements by crystal structure as the parent. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:55, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:BCC crystal habit to Category:Body-centered cubic structure
 * Propose renaming Category:BCT crystal habit to Category:Body-centered tetragonal structure
 * Propose renaming Category:FCC crystal habit to Category:Face-centered cubic structure
 * Propose renaming Category:FCDC crystal habit to Category:Diamond cubic structure
 * Propose renaming Category:HCP crystal habit to Category:Hexagonal close-packed structure
 * Propose renaming Category:Hexagonal crystal habit to Category:Hexagonal structure
 * Propose renaming Category:Orthorhombic crystal habit to Category:Primitive orthorhombic structure
 * Propose renaming Category:Rhombohedral crystal habit to Category:Rhombohedral structure
 * Propose renaming Category:Simple hexagonal crystal habit to Category:Hexagonal planar structure
 * Propose renaming Category:Trigonal crystal habit to Category:Trigonal structure


 * Nominator's rationale: Appreciate Magnovvig for setting up these categories recently, but a couple issues with the names: BCC is an abbreviation, which we should avoid, and Crystal habit is the wrong terminology (habit refers to the outside of a crystal, rather than the structure of the atoms themselves). This also applies to similar categories in Category:Crystallography. &#12296; Forbes72 &#124; Talk &#12297; 22:54, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename to Category:Materials with body-centered cubic crystal structure, etc. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 03:30, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. The renaming of the first five categories makes sense --Devokewater (talk) 13:57, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * ALT 2 Rename to Category:Chemical elements with body-centered cubic crystal structure, loosely per LaundryPizza03, and per actual content. These are set categories containing chemical elements. The categories should be parented to a new Category:Chemical elements by crystal habit, in turn to be parented to Category:Chemical elements. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:37, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Seems mostly reasonable. Speechifying that this is a category for chemical elements will help keep the scope of the categories clear. (it will exclude compounds like Tungsten carbide which are part of the hexagonal crystal system, but belong to a different structure type) The parent category should be instead Category:Chemical elements by crystal structure, though. As I mentioned above, these categories are not crystal habits (such as Acicular, Amygdaloidal, Bladed, etc). These categories look vaguely like crystal families, crystal systems, lattice systems, or Bravais lattices, but under any of those categorizations, diamond cubic would not be distinguished from other face-centered cubic structures. On the other hand, trigonal is too broad a category to be a structure type, so there are definitely overlapping and mutually contradictory systems here. This will take more changes to fix, but your suggestion is an improvement on my original proposal. &#12296; Forbes72 &#124; Talk &#12297; 20:58, 18 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Lists of violent incidents in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:25, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Lists of violent incidents in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to Category:Timelines of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict
 * Nominator's rationale: To match the content of the category. In the past, pages in this category were named as "List of violent incidents in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, YYYY". Now that they're renamed, the category should be too. Triggerhippie4 (talk) 21:22, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


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Category:University towns

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:23, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting university towns
 * Propose deleting university towns in australia
 * Propose deleting university towns in austria
 * Propose deleting university towns in bahrain
 * Propose deleting university towns in belgium
 * Propose deleting university towns in canada
 * Propose deleting university towns in china
 * Propose deleting university towns in estonia
 * Propose deleting university towns in france
 * Propose deleting university towns in germany
 * Propose deleting university towns in india
 * Propose deleting university towns in iran
 * Propose deleting university towns in ireland
 * Propose deleting university towns in italy
 * Propose deleting university towns in the netherlands
 * Propose deleting university towns in new zealand
 * Propose deleting university towns in northern ireland
 * Propose deleting university towns in pakistan
 * Propose deleting university towns in the philippines
 * Propose deleting university towns in qatar
 * Propose deleting university towns in romania
 * Propose deleting university towns in scotland
 * Propose deleting university towns in south africa
 * Propose deleting university towns in spain
 * Propose deleting university towns in sweden
 * Propose deleting university towns in switzerland
 * Propose deleting university towns in the united arab emirates
 * Propose deleting university towns in the united kingdom
 * Propose deleting university towns in the united states
 * Propose deleting university towns in wales

Category tree with subjective and poorly defined inclusion criteria. A college town is not just any and every town or city that happens to have a college or university -- it's a very particular type of place where the college or university is more or less the town's entire raison d'être, because the place's economy is structured almost entirely around the university and/or student-oriented services like bars and restaurants. But the problem is that there's no precise or objective definition of how to determine whether or when any given place is sufficiently "dominated" by its university to actually be a true university or college town, so this tree has a tendency (despite repeated cleanup efforts) to indiscriminately collect every populated place that has one or more universities or colleges at all -- even places like Auckland, Barcelona, Berlin, Bucharest, London, Los Angeles, Madrid, Montreal, New York City, Paris, Rome, Toronto or Vienna, which are far too economically diversified to meet the proper definition of a "university town", regularly get filed here, and only sometimes get removed. (The same issue also affects the associated List of college towns, which is a constant hotbed of editwarring over whether the global megacities can be labelled as "college towns" or not.) We just can't keep categories whose inclusion criteria are this vulnerable to subjective interpretation: in the absence of a precise and quantifiable standard to measure the exact line at which a place has become a "university town", we can't let inclusion come down to differences of personal opinion about what the term even means. (Note that a prior discussion in 2018 failed on procedural grounds, because the parent category was nominated in isolation without any of the country-specific subcategories being batched along with it.) Bearcat (talk) 18:41, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment: I intentionally wanted to discuss this at WikiProject Europe before nominating anything for deletion. Europe has a long history of universities, older than the rest of the world, and I wanted to hear clarification on how the term "university town" is used among Europeans. I thought it possible that a "university town" or "university city" may be used for a city with a historic university, similar to how cathedral city is used in the UK. It may be beneficial to sort this way for European countries, even if not for the rest of the world. —Lights and freedom (talk ~ contribs) 20:06, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, with the specific criteria of a college town a list would be more suitable (but a different list than currently exists). University town is usually interpreted more broadly as a town or city with a university (as the current list illustrates) but that is not a very defining characteristic of a city. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:52, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Are London, Detroit and Paris university towns? New York City? Do not even get me started with places that house institutions of higher learning that do not have any or much residential housing. Also in the US are Honover, New Hampshire and Williamsburg, Virginia university towns since the institutions there have the name college? In American speech the term is "College town", partly because in general American speech people are said to "got to college" whether it is a college or a university. Arguably Ephraim, Utah is a college town, by any use of the term that considers the impact of the higher education instution and it housing out of town students on the place, yet Snow College is a junior college. Arguably Ephraim, Utah is more defined by this characteristic than Salt Lake City, Utah which has the most fully functioning university in the state, with the only medical school. This is not defining enough of the time to be worth categorizing by. The people who came up with this list concept have not thought out three big issues. 1-the number of online only instituions, 2-the number of institutions in truly large cities, where the city is little effects by it and 3-the effects of multi-campus institutions. They have also not dealt with two smaller issues 4-the effects of a place being a commuter school, such that the exact city it is located in being not very defining to it. 5-the effects of university housing being in a different city than the university, either formally owned university housing (I think the University of California, Berkeley owns some housing that it places students in in Albany, California, so is Albany a university town because it has that housing even though it has no university? and then there are other cases where significant numbers of people who are students at a place move to a surrounding city, for example I have known enough Wayne State University students who chose to live in Royal Oak, Michigan as students there to argue that Wayne State has a significant influence on Royal Oak. I have also known multiple Wayne State Students who moved from other states and took up residence in Sterling Heights, Michigan. BYU with its Samuelsonian stringent limits on where single students can live off campus one would not expect this issue to come up, but the allowed exception for living with relatives means that you have BYU students who are resident in multiple cities in Utah Valley, and some other colleges I think have this issue even more. Many of these nuances can be captures in a list, and of course even better in articles, but they do not make for this being defining to many of these cities. This becomes even more true when we realize some of these cities existed for a long time before they ever got a university.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:25, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak delete per WP:SUBJECTIVECAT I agree this may be useful but its a bit subjective since some of their universities are outside a particular town but have that town's name.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:36, 8 June 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Infectious disease-related lists

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) — hueman1 ( talk  •  contributions ) 15:59, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Infectious disease-related lists to Category:Infectious disease–related lists
 * Nominator's rationale: MOS:SUFFIXDASH. — hueman1 ( talk •  contributions ) 15:54, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


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Category:COVID-19 pandemic-related lists

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy keep. (non-admin closure) — hueman1 ( talk  •  contributions ) 15:59, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:COVID-19 pandemic-related lists to Category:COVID-19 pandemic–related lists
 * Nominator's rationale: MOS:SUFFIXDASH. — hueman1 ( talk •  contributions ) 15:50, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Songs written by Edna Osser

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: WP:SOFTDELETE (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 19:40, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting songs written by edna osser
 * Nominator's rationale: This category contains one member and there is no article for Edna Osser, so the category cannot link anything.
 * If another member is found or Edna Osser becomes an article, then this nomination for deletion should fail. Richhoncho (talk) 13:07, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Maltese merchants
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 June 23%23Category:Maltese merchants

Category:Ten-cent coins
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus.  ✗  plicit  10:53, 24 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename to Category:One-tenth unit coins. It isn't always called a cent. (Look at a recent edit I made to one of the coin articles in this category and the fact that someone reverted me.) Georgia guy (talk) 11:20, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I would agree that no-one calls ten pence (British coin) ten cents in the UK, so a rename to something is needed. Oculi (talk) 12:20, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose / alt 1 and 2, the proposed name is very artificial and made-up. Alternatives: rename to Category:Ten-cent and ten-pence coins, or split, or just keep as is. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:32, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * That name won't work either, since there are ten bani, ten satang, etc coins in there. I'd agree that it needs changing to a more neutral name, but I'm unsure what. Grutness... wha?   21:36, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. The entire tree should probably all be considered at once as it wouldn't make much sense to rename this one in isolation. We have, , , , , , , and . I created some of these and at the time couldn't come up with anything better – still can't. Good Ol’factory (talk) 05:34, 12 June 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Cyprus–Northern Cyprus relations
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge and redirect. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:21, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Cyprus–Northern Cyprus relations to Category:Cyprus peace process
 * Nominator's rationale: Everything about the relations between the two sides of Cyprus is relevant to rather than an international relations category. More specifically, the two articles currently in the category (1 and 2) relate to the peace process. Place Clichy (talk) 10:00, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Support for now until articles appear that are unrelated to the peace process. Keep a redirect though. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:02, 8 June 2021 (UTC)


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Category:United States flag flying days
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:28, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting united states flag flying days
 * Nominator's rationale: Really? Flag flying days? According to whom? This seems to be a very strange category. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:47, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete A flag flying day is a day when government buildings are required to fly the national flag. The creator of this category also created the following:• british flag flying days

• german flag flying days

• norwegian flag flying days (Deleting this one will also empty Category:Observances in Norway unless additional items are added there)

• finnish flag flying days

• swedish flag flying days IMO, this fails WP:TRIVIALCAT because the flag-flying status is hardly significant for what consists mostly of holidays. I don't think the parent Category:Flag flying days should be deleted, as it consists mostly of lists of flag flying days. All of these countries already have such a corresponding list. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 14:05, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The thing is, what govt buildings? For instance... military bases require the flag to be flown on D-Day, VJ Day, and VE Day. Fathers Day has never been a flag flying day but Mothers Day has. I put my own flag out for all those days, but a requirement? The category seems very subjective plus none of the holidays listed mention in their parent articles that you fly the flag with a listed source, so they are being put in the category with no merit as to why. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, these days are enacted as days when the US flag should fly. The days are listed in flag of the United States, where you can find references too. You give no real reason why you want it deleted, ’strange’ is no reason. It is not trivial, this is the kind of information people look for in an encyklopedia or a calendar. Ove Raul (talk) 23:26, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Related Cagegories Tagged I just tagged the related categories listed above. - RevelationDirect (talk) 11:08, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete All This feels like WP:TRIVIALCAT and is better handled by list articles like Flag flying days in Norway that can better explain the flag traditions and when laws were passed. These are just adding category clutter to New Year's Day which isn't defined by these categories. - RevelationDirect (talk) 11:12, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, these are days enumerated in law when the flag should be flown by government agencies. Many people in the country who has a flag pole also observe flag days. As has been said, it is relevant information in an encyclopedia. Dagrqv (talk) 14:12, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. Flag days are ordered by law or government decree.... How is that trivial then? --J. Patrick Fischer (talk) 16:35, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep for procedural reasons as nominator did not give a policy-based reason for deletion, so this whole discussion falls under WP:IDONTLIKEIT. If the result is to delete, then these categories should be turned into lists as RevelationDirect has suggested above before they are deleted. — Jkudlick &#x2693; (talk) 16:58, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Totally agree this info should be retained in Wikipedia in some form. - RevelationDirect (talk) 17:47, 8 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep, or if consensus is to delete, then listify. Important information and relevant to an encyclopaedia. Grutness... wha?   06:27, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


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Category:Category:Albums produced by Bangladesh (record producer)
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 * The result of the discussion was: keep. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:19, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting category
 * Nominator's rationale: The main article Bangladesh (record producer) has already been deleted per AfD. 162 etc. (talk) 05:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. There is no guidance or rule that says categories should have corresponding articles, only that that if there is both they should match. There are plenty of member articles to these 3 categories to make them a useful contribution to the categorisation scheme. I do wonder why the article was deleted, Bangladesh has made quite a contribution to music. --Richhoncho (talk) 07:45, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose - afd is an unsatisfactory venue as the suggested searches use the phrase "Bangladesh (record producer)" which returns no results, unsurprisingly. Other searches are dominated by the country Bangladesh, as might be expected. Searches on Shondrae Crawford, the actual name, return all sorts of results, such as grammy winning. Indeed the substantial contents of these 3 categories would suggest that the person is notable. Oculi (talk) 09:16, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. I would have no objection to the categories renamed Shondrae Crawford, if that was a proposal. --Richhoncho (talk) 12:00, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Category:Songs written by Bangladesh (record producer)
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 * The result of the discussion was: keep. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:20, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting category
 * Nominator's rationale: The main article Bangladesh (record producer) has already been deleted per AfD. 162 etc. (talk) 04:59, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. There is no guidance or rule that says categories should have corresponding articles, only that that if there is both they should match. There are plenty of member articles to these 3 categories to make them a useful contribution to the categorisation scheme. I do wonder why the article was deleted, Bangladesh has made quite a contribution to music. --Richhoncho (talk) 07:45, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * For the record, see Articles for deletion/Bangladesh (record producer). – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:56, 15 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Category:Song recordings produced by Bangladesh (record producer)
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 * The result of the discussion was: keep. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:23, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting category
 * Nominator's rationale: The main article Bangladesh (record producer) has already been deleted per AfD. 162 etc. (talk) 04:55, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. There is no guidance or rule that says categories should have corresponding articles, only that that if there is both they should match. There are plenty of member articles to these 3 categories to make them a useful contribution to the categorisation scheme. I do wonder why the article was deleted, Bangladesh has made quite a contribution to music. --Richhoncho (talk) 07:44, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People with Guillain–Barré syndrome
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:20, 15 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Proposing Deleting/Listifying Category:People with Guillain–Barré syndrome
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NOT, WP:COP and WP:NONDEFINING (WP:TRIVIALCAT)
 * Deborah McFadden had Guillain–Barré syndrome start as a young adult and she is partly known as a disibility rights activists. That's as defining as this category gets because it otherwise consists of people who were notable for unrelated reasons, had the syndrome in later life, and then died of something else (Examples: 1, 2, 3). There is already a separate list, List of people with Guillain–Barré syndrome, for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:06, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom, disease with 7.5% fatality rate. A Category:Deaths from Guillain–Barré syndrome would be acceptable if there are enough notable people to get over WP:SMALLCAT. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:57, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Not many people die of GBS but it is very traumatising. But in general its not sensible to categorise people by disease - even if its a disease which kills them.  Rathfelder (talk) 23:13, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People with Lyme disease
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete Category:People with Lyme disease. Category:Deaths from Lyme disease was deleted as an empty category while this discussion was ongoing. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:19, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting Category:People with Lyme disease
 * Propose Selectively Reparenting Category:Deaths from Lyme disease directly under Category:Lyme disease
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NOT, WP:COP and WP:NONDEFINING (WP:TRIVIALCAT, WP:PERFCAT)
 * According to the Lyme Disease article, 300,000 people contract the disease in the United States and 65,000 in Europe every year and it's a temporary illness. Justin Bieber had it in 2020, Michael J. Fox had it in 1997, while Debbie Gibson had it in 2013 none of which seems defining. (Avril Lavigne is in this category because she did a single charity concern for a pseudo-scientific chronic Lyme disease group but that is WP:PERFCAT.) Wikipedia is not a medical history of every disease or ailment of notable people. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:06, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Rarely lethal medical condition, with Category:Deaths from Lyme disease already covering those exceptions. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:54, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete non-defining.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 08:54, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.