Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 March 24



Category:Sertanejo artists

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:26, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Sertanejo artists to Category:Sertanejo musicians
 * Propose renaming Category:Sertanejo groups to Category:Sertanejo music groups
 * Nominator's rationale: Musician/music group seem to be the more appropriate terms based on the respective parents, Category:Latin musicians by genre and Category:Latin music groups by genre. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 23:37, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Support change: More inclusive and more precise. werldwayd (talk) 23:57, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Erick (talk) 14:41, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. --Just N. (talk) 13:14, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:ValdezCordovaAK-geo-stub and category

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy delete WP:G6. I found this via WP:CFDWM. For the record, 50 pages link to the Chugach stub template, and 34 pages to CopperRiver, so they are populating Category:Alaska geography stubs rather than the two separate categories that were approved here. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:19, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting and valdez–cordova census area, alaska geography stubs


 * Nominator's rationale: This area has been split in two and articles have been re-sorted with new templates. Her Pegship (?) 23:13, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:55, 25 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:25, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting people with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
 * Propose deleting sportspeople with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
 * Nominator's rationale: Clear case of WP:NONDEF. Hemiauchenia (talk) 21:55, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Both Clearly non-defining, can be discussed in the articles as appropriate. - RevelationDirect (talk) 23:08, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose Medical disorders that are discussed in the article should correspond to categories. Dimadick (talk) 12:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete both For the record I was once diagnosed with this, until about 10 years later when I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. I do not think we should be defining people by things that have been so contested. This is non-defining.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:35, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Medical errors (including an inaccurate diagnosis) are not rare. "A 2016 study of the number of deaths that were a result of medical error in the U.S. placed the yearly death rate in the U.S. alone at 251,454 deaths" However, that does not invalidate every diagnosis. Dimadick (talk) 04:57, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
 * With things like ADHD and Autism changing defintions over time and the fact that diagnosis is fueled by observation and not by tests for virus or backteria or genetic componants makes the issues even more pronounced.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, this is pretty personal stuff, not to be blown up in a public encyclopedia. However, no objection to creating a new category for activists/advocates on behalf of people with ADHD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:40, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Michael Phelps is fairly public about his ADHD and probably others but otherwise I do agree. Delete--Prisencolin (talk) 19:52, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose Other mental health related diagnoses have categories for people with those conditions (i.e. anxiety, depression, etc.), as well as categories for people with other medical diagnoses. Maybe worth deleting the Sportspeople subcategory as possibly too niche? HighlandFacts (talk) 20:24, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
 * We have hundreds of categories that violate our baisc understanding of what categories should be. The argument we should have to nominate the whole lot together to make any progress is just unreasonable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:36, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per Marcocapelle. Maybe a new advocate cat could be useful indeed. Who creates it? --Just N. (talk) 13:19, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Cousins

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Cousinship (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 09:43, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Cousins to Category:Cousin
 * Nominator's rationale: "Cousin" is the main article and it is not in plural. Same with the similar "Category:Sibling". ★Trekker (talk) 19:54, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename to Category:Cousinhood or Category:Cousinship. While the use of singular forms as opposed to plural is sometimes used to denote a category's scope as a topic category, it reads very awkwardly here, and there are topical terms that would better serve the purpose. --Paul_012 (talk) 22:13, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Agree with Paul's comments; cf. Category:Childhood, Category:Parenting rather than "Category:child" or "Category:Parent". This Ngram shows that "cousinship" is more common in literature than "cousinhood". – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:59, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Alt rename per Paul 012, if a clear majority thinks we need it. I have to admit that I'm still uneasy about the (research?) navigational usefulness of such a category. Or should we maybe delete it? --Just N. (talk) 13:29, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Cousin couples

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename; no consensus to delete. It's likely that the category will have to be monitored somewhat to ensure that biographies are not added to it. This is not an ideal situation. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:40, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Cousin couples to Category:Cousin marriage
 * Nominator's rationale: The article Cousin marriage is the main topic and the category should share its name. "Coupled cousins" makes it seem like it's a category for articles on individual coupled duos like "Category:Couples" is. ★Trekker (talk) 19:52, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete without renaming. Category:Cousin marriage has been deleted at CFD in the past (see Categories for discussion/Log/2013 September 3 and Categories for discussion/Log/2013 August 30), and the reasons why it was deletable then are still applicable now. Cousin marriage isn't a particularly remarkable or significant issue, so the existence of a small handful of articles about it does not automatically create the need for a concept category. Bearcat (talk) 20:00, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Significant or not there are five articles on the topic (enough for its own category). Categorizing those articles by their subject isn't wrong. Many things that a lot of people would not consider "noteworthy or remarkable" still have categories because it's helpful to disfuse their parent categories for example.★Trekker (talk) 20:03, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * "Five articles with some overlap" is not always automatic grounds for a category in and of itself. See the category immediately below this, where there are twelve articles but the characteristic being categorized for isn't defining of any of them. See as well Categories for discussion/Log/2012 April 30 and Categories for discussion/Log/2008 October 15, proving that there's an even longer history of cousin-marriage categories getting deleted and no compelling new reason to overturn any of the prior discussions. Bearcat (talk) 20:05, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That reasoning makes no sense since clearly all of these articles are defined by "cousin marriage". It's literally in four out of fives titles.★Trekker (talk) 20:13, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Which has what, exactly, to do with what I said? Bearcat (talk) 20:20, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Your claim that something isn't defining and that I should look below on some other unrelated random other category for deletion.
 * "See the category immediately below this, where there are twelve articles but the characteristic being categorized for isn't defining of any of them" This is not "five articles with some overlap".★Trekker (talk) 20:24, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The takeaway point was that the number of articles that happen to be present in a category is not in and of itself an exemption from other considerations as to whether a category should exist or not. Of which "defining" is one, and "this category has been deleted several times in the past, and no new reason has been given why it's suddenly more appropriate now than it was two and five and ten years ago" is another. Happening to have five articles that can be filed in it is not, in and of itself, automatic grounds for a category per se, that would allow you to ignore any of the other considerations that govern when a category should or shouldn't exist. Bearcat (talk) 20:31, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry but I don't find "this was deleted like a decade ago" to be a very good argument, Wikipedia was a different (much worse) place several years ago. I don't find any of the reasonings presented there to be very compeling. If cousin marriage is such a "insignificant" thing then why are there several articles on the topic, why is it regulated in law in several jurisdictions? Someone coming out and saying "this is no big deal" doesn't change that clearly someone else has made a big deal about it and Wikipedia and now Wikipedia has a bunch of articles on it.★Trekker (talk) 20:38, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * And also I'm not ignoring "other considerations that govern when a category should or shouldn't exist", I simply disagree that your reasoning corectly judges this category as falls under any of those.★Trekker (talk) 20:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Do not delete, in the previous discussion there were two articles in the category, now there are five, so the situation is different. WP:NONDEF does not apply either. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:36, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Nobody said NONDEF did apply. Bearcat (talk) 13:28, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Why bring it up then?★Trekker (talk) 23:20, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You said that "five articles exist" was grounds for a category in and of itself, and that any category that hits five plausible entries is automatically exempted from any of the other rules that apply to whether a category is justifiable or not. So I raised an example of a category, under discussion on this very page, where the presence of 12 articles in the category still isn't a reason why the category would automatically be acceptable, and the actual problem with it would be irrelevant, in and of itself. If the message you took from what I said is that I was applying "defining characteristic" as the crux of my reasoning against this category, then your reading comprehension skills are where the actual problem is. Bearcat (talk) 15:31, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry you misinterpreted my comment to mean that I thought every sinle thing ever could be a category just because it had five articles in it, because that was clearly not what I was implying. And I'd say your stonewalling and bringing up of irrelevant stuff is a bigger issue here. Clearly most people here so don't agree with your reasonings that this should be deleted so maybe stop BLUDGEONING already? You're starting to sound pretty uncivil.★Trekker (talk) 17:41, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If you say things that warrant responses, such as misrepresenting the things I even said in the first place or asking me questions that need answers, then my responding is not "bludgeoning" anything. Bearcat (talk) 17:15, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Have you considered that maybe someone would be confused by your very poor reasoning?★Trekker (talk) 21:23, 29 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom and put an explanatory note on the category page that this is not for biographies. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 02:25, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename The contents are better reflected by the target title.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:37, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Neutral Comment - Both Cousin marriage and List of coupled cousins appear to exist. - jc37 15:52, 12 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Films edited by Robert Wise

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:22, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting films edited by robert wise
 * Nominator's rationale: Category grouping films on a characteristic that isn't clearly WP:DEFINING. We do not have a comprehensive scheme of always categorizing films for the matter of who their editors were -- this is literally the only "Films edited by X" category that exists for any film editor in the entire history of cinema, but there's no obvious reason why Robert Wise's editing credits would occupy some special pinnacle of ubernotability over and above everybody else's. If we don't comprehensively categorize all films for who their editors were -- and no, I'm not suggesting that we should start -- then films edited by Robert Wise don't need special treatment. Bearcat (talk) 19:52, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom; this isn't a tree that is defining for most and creeping closer to the dreaded WP:PERFCAT. These should be in the filmography section of the biography if notable; and presumably, a link to the editor in the film's article, so no association is lost. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 02:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 08:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Films should be grouped by director. I see no other person involved who we really should categorize or group films by.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:37, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Not even writers?★Trekker (talk) 15:29, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment We already categorize by the film's producer, screenwriter, and music composer. Directors are not that important to a success of film in comparison to the others. Dimadick (talk) 05:00, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep'. Agree with Dimadick's commentary. Film editors are underestimated as being quite important for the film narration, comprehensibility and cinematic experience. --Just N. (talk) 13:42, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:09, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Listify - I would like to lean towards Keep, as film editing is as least as important/defining as other parts of the film creation process, but in reality there are several people typically in the editing room, and/or who contribute to the editing process in various ways, not just the editor who makes the actual edits. And so I think this is better explained in an article or list. - jc37 16:02, 12 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Croatian people of Bosnia and Herzegovina descent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:21, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting croatian people of bosnia and herzegovina descent
 * Nominator's rationale: Delete As much as I think that descent categories are not appropriate, this is among the least justified. The vast majority of the folks here are Croatian people who were born in or whose "descent" comes from Bosnia and Herzegovina when the two belonged to the same country. Similar to what would be Category:Texan people of Massachusetts descent as applied to those folks who lived in Texas when it wasn't part of the USA (pre 1845 and 1861-65). Regardless of what people think about descent categories in general, people moving around within the same country isn't something we ought categorize on. Moreover, many of these people are also claimed to be of Croatian ethnicity, so that we are left with people whose "descent" from one constituent republic of Yugoslavia is different to their claimed ethnicity; much like claiming that John McCain's children are of Panamanian descent. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:50, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Indeed "descent" of people who moved within the same federal country is pretty irrelevant. Among this category, there are probably very few people, actually not from Bosnia themselves, but whose parents had the time to live in Bosnia and Herzegovina long enough to be associated with the independent country after 1991, move to Croatia, and produce offspring which in turn had the time to grow up and do something notable enough to merit a Wikipedia article. Note that there is a strong Croat minority in BiH. If this is what we want to trace here (i.e. Croats from Bosnia who moved to Croatia proper), a double inclusion e.g. in (or a subcategory) and  (or a subcategory) is probably a better way to trace that. Out of a sample of articles (Gordan Kožulj, Zvonimir Boban, Josip Šimić, Dario Šimić), many do not actually mention any link to Bosnia or descent from Bosnia, so this category may have been filled based on last name or copied from another Wikipedia language. Place Clichy (talk) 07:51, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 13:47, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:15th-century Protestant martyrs

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:20, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:15th-century Protestant martyrs to Category:15th-century proto-Protestant martyrs
 * Propose renaming Category:15th-century Protestantism to Category:15th-century proto-Protestantism added 26 March
 * Nominator's rationale: rename to align with article Proto-Protestantism. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:48, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Support Per main article and that historical context. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:43, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I nominated the parent category for renaming too. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:56, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Support renaming that as well. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:17, 27 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. I have to admit that I didn't ever before stumble upon the notion/lemma Proto-Protestantism. --Just N. (talk) 13:50, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: The article text uses proto-Protestantism, with proto uncapitalised. --Paul_012 (talk) 13:41, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I will change the nomination accordingly. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:24, 3 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Iyer people

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 09:51, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Iyer people to Category:Tamil Brahmins and Category:Social groups of Kerala
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT, containing only two articles, which are already interlinked. The category page header implies that it is for biographies, but if there were any, they have either been deleted or removed. (The other parent categories are already on the member pages where appropriate.) – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:08, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 13:51, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Deaths by dismemberment

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. I have changed the parent category from Category:Deaths by cause to Category:Amputations. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:18, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Deaths by dismemberment to Category:Dismemberments
 * Nominator's rationale: While according to the dismemberment article, the action may be a form of killing, most articles under the category actually are about cases where the body was dismembered after the victim was killed. This should either be renamed, or split into Category:Deaths by dismemberment and a parent Category:Dismemberments if retaining membership under Category:deaths by cause is desired. I don't think the category is large enough to warrant having both, though, so prefer renaming. --Paul_012 (talk) 07:48, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. It's unclear from the few entries I looked at whether the dismemberment was pre- or post-death. Although our article dismemberment says "Dismemberment refers, in general terms, to the act of cutting, tearing, pulling, wrenching or otherwise relieving the limbs from a living thing" (emphasis added), it goes on to discuss dismemberment after death for making an example of the dismembered person or by criminals to make identification of the victim difficult, etc., which seems to assume that post-death removal of limbs is also "dismemberment". Given that, it would be impossible many years later to ascertain whether the dismemberment was the cause of death or just peri-mortal. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 02:35, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. --Just N. (talk) 13:52, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category: Voodoo deities

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: no consensus. It may be useful to split the categories to new sub-cats for Haitian Vodou, so that it would be more clear which deities are not solely Haitian. (Deities in Haitian and another form of vodou would belong in both.) – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:42, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Nominator's rationale: The spelling of Vodou as Voodoo is incorrect and racist. There is no need to separate male and female deities/lwa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nytoussaint (talk • contribs) 05:49, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Voodoo deities to Category:Vodou deities
 * Propose merging sub Category:Voodoo gods to Category:Vodou deities
 * Propose merging sub Category:Voodoo goddesses to Category:Vodou deities
 * Alt rename to "Haitian Vodou deities", per article title, purge the (very few) non-Haitian deities and re-parent the category to Category:Haitian Vodou. Note that Voodoo is a disambiguation page. I have no opinion about merging gods and goddesses. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:17, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Support Marcocapelle. I would used the spelling Voodoo, but that is an English-language spelling of a subject where the native language is French, so that we ought to follow the French spelling as used in Haiti.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:53, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose merging gendered categories. The categories follows the standard we use for the entire deities category tree. As for the rename, I am perplexed. I usually do not trust Marcocapelle's judgement when it comes to category renames or deletions (I have a long-standing suspicion that he/she does not read the articles before nominating), but in this case I am not certain which religious system is covered by the category. The disambiguation page lists related systems. West African Vodun is the common ancestor of Cuban Vodú, Dominican Vudú, Haitian Vodou, South Carolina's Hoodoo (spirituality), and Louisiana Voodoo. Are we certain that the deities are exclusive to Haitian Vodou? Dimadick (talk) 12:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I did read a number of articles, that is exactly why I said "very few". If you do not believe me, feel free to read the articles too. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:14, 25 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose The split out of gods and goddesses is standard. We should not end it in just one case like this.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:38, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose Being in the english language wikipedia requires to use the standard English and not French words for recherche and navigational use, And the split out of gods and goddesses is standard. --Just N. (talk) 13:58, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Sometimes French words are adopted in English and that appears to be the case with Haitian Vodou. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:18, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Latter Day Saint denominations by belief

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. Although I was WP:INVOLVED, the consensus is unmistakable, and I assume no-one will object to me closing this CFD (against my own suggestion). – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:03, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Monotheistic denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement to Category:Latter Day Saint denominations
 * Propose merging Category:Trinitarian denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement to Category:Latter Day Saint denominations
 * Nominator's rationale: This is a follow-up to this discussion and is the first in what may become a series of nominations to clean up . We don't need to categorize denominations by belief, so I think these can be upmerged. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:36, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:24, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Inclined to keep as these appear to be more important and WP:defining characteristics than their sub-cats. What the denominations believe is more important than their origin. The Trinitarian category seems particularly defining, as holding to a very important strand of orthodox historical Christian doctrine. Restructure though, as Trinitarian should be within Monotheistic. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:27, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * We should be careful not to project obvious mainstream Christianity categorization onto the LDS movement. The two largest denominations have a share of 98% and 1.5% within the LDS movement, so everything else has "splinter denomination" as its most defining characteristic. Also note that List of denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement hardly discusses monotheism or trinitarism as differentiating characteristics within the LDS movement. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:18, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * In my view, the type of splinter group (eg, Prairie Saint, Josephite, Rocky Mountain Saint, Rigdonite, etc.) is more defining than the trinitarian/monotheistic division. The former are discussed frequently in sources; the latter, not so much. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge -- There appear only to be four items between the two categories, of which two appear to be in both, making each an under-sized category, the usual minimum being five. I suspect that the divisions among LDS churches are of little interest to anyone beyond the LDS movement.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:02, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I think you mean three, of which two are in both – rightly, as Trinitarian is Monotheistic. But those three "items" are categories not pages, and each contain a different further sub-cat plus 6 to 10 other pages. If those sub-cats get merged to parents, then these nominated categories would become more visibly useful. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:57, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge I think these terms are trickier to define than some people think, and so this whole category system is unwise. In fact that all comes off as a POV pushing exercise by editors who are determined to define the beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in just incorrect ways. The heading basically is a ploy by extremely bigoted and hateful and vengeful enemies of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to falsely claim that members of the Church do not believe in the oneness of God, which they explicitly do believe in. This set of categories strikes me as similar to other ugly things enemies of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do such as their false claim that members of the Church believe in a different Jesus who is Satan's brother, which is theologically false, in Latter-day Saint belief Lucifer lost his divine sonship, and clearly meant to use rhetoric in ways to create hate and animosity towards members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The wording of the explanation for these categories comes off as engaging in this same type of hate filled rhetoric.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:39, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I think that this interpretation is a bit extreme; it certainly doesn't assume good faith on the part of the editor who wrote the headers. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:12, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 14:00, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Kentucky women in religion

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete.  The SandDoctor  Talk 00:34, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting kentucky women in religion
 * Nominator's rationale: It's not clear what "in religion" means nor that what is defining about it. This is the only one of its kind. User:Namiba 02:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete, hodgepodge of completely unrelated articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:26, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Grutness... wha?   00:19, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete This is a very bad category. The majority of at least Christian and especially Protestant church members in the US are women. While on the historical scale women being ministers/pastors are the minority, this is broad enough to include religious writers, where possibly a majority have been women, Christian missionaries, who in the 19th-century were so often married couples among protestants, that there is no reason to think men will ever be significantly more numerous than women. This type of category might work in a Catholic context (although that ignores the huge number of nuns), but it does not work in Protestantism, especially low church post-Great Awakening and especially post-Second Great Awakening low church Protestantism. Even in primarily Catholic countries I am not sure if this is a good category, the limiting factors are much less clear than with in politics categories, but for a place with the actual history of Kentucky such a category grouping religious devotional writers, women who headed various church committees and other things makes no sense. If you tried to do this for Utah I would point out that even though in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints missionaries are historically primarily male (not so much since 2013, but there may still be more males, different time served makes it a hard to answer question), and top leadership is all male, and those with worldwide leadership are majority male, I can show that the vast majority of participatory members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have held positions in the Church that make their Church membership defining to them and such a category a coherent one to put them in, which would make it non-defining.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:56, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Category with no defined scope and no parent category relating to religion. Dimadick (talk) 01:16, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 14:01, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Children's animated adventure television series

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:33, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting children's animated adventure television series
 * Nominator's rationale: Overly detailed category and subject to interpretation. ... disco spinster   talk  00:44, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Procedural comment, the subcategories should be tagged and listed too. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Conditional oppose, this category should not be deleted if the subcategories aren't deleted too. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:59, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * oppose Personally I find that many of the definitions of "children's series" and "children's animation" are entirely unsourced, and would not oppose trimming the category tree. But these are still adventure fiction series, and should not be left uncategorized. Dimadick (talk) 12:28, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 'Oppose' per Marcocapelle and Dimadick|. --Just N. (talk) 14:04, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American adult animated space adventure television series

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to all parents, i.e. Category:American adult animated adventure television series, Category:American adult animated science fiction television series, Category:Animated space adventure television series. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:31, 25 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting american adult animated space adventure television series
 * Nominator's rationale: Unnecessarily detailed category and subject to interpretation. ... disco spinster   talk  00:35, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

*Upmerge to parents. This is too many intersections to be useful. Do we even have the category? Well, we do, but I am not sure how The Jetsons got placed there. We may have to look at if it is being applied in a consistent way. Also, is the term widely used enough to be useful? Category:Science fantasy films?John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:59, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge to parent categories, unneeded split by "adult". Marcocapelle (talk) 06:31, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:SUBJECTIVECAT who determines whether a television is an "adult animated space adventure"? And what WP:RS would tell us anything categorized here is such? adult animated space adventure isn't written nor is animated space adventure nor is space adventure so it maybe WP:OR that this is a genre at all. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:00, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * oppose Should be merged to a science fiction or space opera category. Space opera is the subgenre which "emphasizes space warfare, melodramatic adventure, interplanetary battles, chivalric romance, and risk-taking. Set mainly or entirely in outer space". 12:31, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Dimadick (talk)
 * Upmerge This seems to many different things all merged into one.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American adult animated science fantasy television series
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to all parents, i.e. Category:American adult animated fantasy television series, Category:American adult animated science fiction television series, Category:American animated science fantasy television series. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:29, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting american adult animated science fantasy television series
 * Nominator's rationale: Over-categorization, and subject to interpretation (who is to say that these shows are "science fantasy"?). ... disco spinster   talk  00:34, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge to parent categories, unneeded split by "adult". Marcocapelle (talk) 06:31, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:SUBJECTIVECAT who determines whether a television is an "adult animated space fantasy"? And what WP:RS would tell us anything categorized here is such? adult animated space fantasy isn't written nor is animated space fantasy nor is space fantasy so it maybe WP:OR that this is a genre at all. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:01, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * oppose The category seems to be an intersection of adult animation and science fantasy. These genres exist, and the category could be merged to relevant categories about them. Dimadick (talk) 12:35, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Upmerge This seems to many different things all merged into one.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Upmerge per Dimadick and Marcocapelle. --Just N. (talk) 14:08, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American adult animated comic science fiction television series
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to all parents, i.e. Category:American adult animated comedy television series, Category:American adult animated science fiction television series and Category:American comic science fiction television series. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:26, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting american adult animated comic science fiction television series
 * Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization, no need to specify (or interpret) that one type of animated science fiction series is comical while others are not. ... disco spinster   talk  00:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge to parent categories, unneeded split by "adult". Marcocapelle (talk) 06:31, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:SUBJECTIVECAT who determines whether a television series is an "adult animated science fiction "? And what WP:RS would tell us anything categorized here is such? adult animated science fiction isn't written nor is animated science fiction ; clearly science fiction is a genre; so it maybe WP:OR that this subsubgenre? is a genre at all. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * oppose This seems to be a misconception. Science fiction comedy is a distinctive subgenre, we are not the ones interpreting it. 12:37, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Dimadick (talk)
 * Upmerge This seems to many different things all merged into one.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:02, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge to parent categories. --Just N. (talk) 14:12, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American children's animated comic science fiction television series
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep for now. There may be scope for renaming using "science fiction comedy" for clarification. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:19, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting american children's animated comic science fiction television series
 * Nominator's rationale: Over-categorization, there really doesn't need to be a category for a "comic" version of a children's animated series, and is also subject to interpretation (what would be a "non-comic" children's animated science fiction television series?). ... disco spinster   talk  00:31, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete WP:SUBJECTIVECAT who determines whether a television series is an "children's animated comic science fiction"? And what WP:RS would tell us anything categorized here is such? children's animated comic science fiction isn't written nor is animated comic science fiction; comic science fiction redirects to Science fiction comedy which is described as a subgenre of science fiction; clearly science fiction is a genre; so it maybe WP:OR that this subsubsubgenre? is a genre at all. If kept its name should reflect the name chose as "science fiction comedy" which gets rid of the idea that all animations are comics. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:58, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment "gets rid of the idea that all animations are comics" Since comics are a print medium, and animation is created for film and television, the two could not be more different. But in the case of this category, the intended parent genre is comedy, not comics. Dimadick (talk) 13:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If not kept, merge to parent categories. There is no reason to remove the content from the Children tree or from the Science fiction tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * oppose This seems to be a misconception. Science fiction comedy is a distinctive subgenre, we are not the ones interpreting it.Dimadick (talk) 12:38, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Upmerge This seems to many different things all merged into one.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:02, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If not kept, merge to parent categories. --Just N. (talk) 14:11, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Animated science fantasy television series
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: keep for now. If re-nominated, all the sub-cats should also be listed, each with specific multiple merge targets. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:16, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting animated science fantasy television series
 * Nominator's rationale: Over-categorization, and subject to interpretation (who is to say that these shows are "science fantasy"?). All the subcategories should be deleted as well for the same reasons. ... disco spinster   talk  00:26, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete WP:SUBJECTIVECAT who determines whether a television is an "animated space fantasy"? And what WP:RS would tell us anything categorized here is such? animated space fantasy isn't written nor is space fantasy so it maybe WP:OR that this is a genre at all. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 02:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I am not certain if you are joking or you have misread the category's name. The term is science fantasy, not space fantasy. Neither the category, nor discospinster mention anything concerning space. Dimadick (talk) 13:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If not kept, merge to parent categories. There is no reason to remove the content from the Animated tree or from the Science fiction tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose How is the subgenre of science fantasy open to interpretation? It is a mix of elements of both fantasy and science fiction, two genres that are usually opposed to each other. Fantasy is defined mainly by its use of magic and supernatural elements, while science fiction typically rejects either element. Dimadick (talk) 13:08, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If not kept, merge to parent categories. --Just N. (talk) 14:10, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the House Order of the Wendish Crown
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:14, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Recipients of the House Order of the Wendish Crown
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Grand Crosses of the House Order of the Wendish Crown
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Grand Commanders of the House Order of the Wendish Crown‎
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Knights of the House Order of the Wendish Crown
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OVERLAPCAT and WP:OCAWARD)
 * The Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin issued the House Order of the Wendish Crown to three groups:
 * 1: Officials from Other German States: Prince Alexander of Prussia, Prince Alfons of Bavaria, and Frederick I, Duke of Anhalt don't seem defined by the award
 * 2: Officials from Farther Afield: George V, Pakubuwono X, and Frederick VIII of Denmark are not remotely defined by the award
 * 3: Local Nobility: Frederick Francis IV, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Duke Paul Frederick of Mecklenburg and Duke Henry of Mecklenburg-Schwerin are already well categorized somewhere under Category:Mecklenburgian nobility.
 * There wasn't a list so I created one right here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:11, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Background In the past, we've deleted dozens of similar categories for high ranking visitors and those nominations are listed right here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:11, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Support deletion -- Item 3 must actually be rulers and members of the grand ducal family, but that does not affect the outcome. Clearly an AWARD.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:57, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete This is another example of overcategorization by award. Albert, Prince Consort is in 22 such categories, which is excessive, but apparently up until a few months ago he was in 30 or more.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:03, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 14:08, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Bronze Cross of Zimbabwe
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Clear consensus in favour of category deletion at this time.  The SandDoctor  Talk 00:30, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Recipients of the Bronze Cross of Zimbabwe
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD, WP:PERFCAT, WP:OVERLAPCAT)
 * There is only 1 article in this category for winning the Bronze Cross of Zimbabwe: Government Minister Giles Mutsekwa, who is already well categorized under Category:Government ministers of Zimbabwe. I can't really say the category contents are "listified" but I linked that 1 biography right here in the main article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:11, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete, obvious case of WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:34, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete The one person in this category is sufficiently and adequately categorized without this category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. --Just N. (talk) 14:09, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.