Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 May 11



Category:Vermont Reds

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:16, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting vermont reds
 * Nominator's rationale: Category with just one entry and one subcategory. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:32, 11 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator. NatureBoyMD (talk) 19:20, 15 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:VoA scripted users

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:11, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting voa scripted users
 * Nominator's rationale: In theory redundant to Category:Wikipedians who use VoA script, in practice the sole content is an indefinitely blocked vandalism-only account (hence I'm proposing a deletion rather than a merge). * Pppery * it has begun... 15:45, 11 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Doesn't foster collaboration. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:26, 12 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Media manipulation theorists

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge excluding one subcategory (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:42, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose discussing media manipulation theorists
 * Nominator's rationale: according to main article, "Media manipulation is a series of related techniques in which partisans create an image or argument that favours their particular interests. Such tactics may include the use of logical fallacies, psychological manipulations, outright deception (disinformation), rhetorical and propaganda techniques, and often involve the suppression of information or points of view by crowding them out, by inducing other people or groups of people to stop listening to certain arguments, or by simply diverting attention elsewhere." The current 6 child categories (which are the only content) do not seem to reflect this definition: the science of, , and  is far from being defined by fallacy, deception or suppression of information. This may be more debatable for children  or , however I wonder if such an intermediate category would be meaningful if restricted to them.
 * Several solutions are possible including purge or mere deletion. Merging with parent may be my preference at first glance, with the exception of  which is less related to mass media than the other child categories. Place Clichy (talk) 13:30, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge all categories except Category:Voting theorists to Category:Mass media theorists, per Place Clichy. Undefined, suspected misused term. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 15:40, 12 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Pinoy jazz

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename/merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:51, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming and redirecting Category:Filipino jazz to Category:Pinoy jazz
 * Propose merging Category:Pinoy Jazz to Category:Pinoy jazz
 * Propose renaming Category:Pinoy Jazz albums to Category:Pinoy jazz albums
 * Propose merging Category:Pinoy Jazz compilation albums to Category:Compilation albums by Filipino artists, Category:Jazz compilation albums and Category:Pinoy jazz albums


 * Nominator's rationale: per Music of the Philippines and WP:SMALLCAT. – Fayenatic  L ondon 10:45, 11 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment, the term Pino Jazz does not prominently occur in the articles of this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:00, 12 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hindu warriors

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (manually as suggested, purging articles which do not belong in Category:Indian warriors. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:20, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose manually merging Category:Hindu warriors to Category:Indian warriors
 * Nominator's rationale: manually merge, this is a hodgepodge and not surprisingly we do not have a similar category for other religions. Many articles in the category are about monarchs (who should not be included in the merge), some are about people involved in a war between a Hindu state and a Muslim state (but in very different wars), while for others it is entirely unclear why they are in a religious (Hindu) category. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:51, 11 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge If you're willing to take this one, I'll support a manual merge. (I would have just nominated it as a straight delete.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:28, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure :) Marcocapelle (talk) 04:31, 12 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Merge The intersection of religion and being a warrior is not defining. Beyond this, applying "Hindu" as a religious descriptor in the pre-modern era is more complex and problematic in some cases than categorization like this suggests.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:31, 2 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Members of the United Confederate Veterans

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:50, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Members of the United Confederate Veterans
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:TRIVIALCAT
 * I certainly can't claim WP:SMALLCAT here because, at its peak, the United Confederate Veterans had 1,555 different "camps" (aka lodges/chapters). The organization represented ex-solders who had fought for the Confederacy during the American Civil War so all of these biographies should already be somewhere under Category:Confederate States of America military personnel. Simply joining a membership organization is not defining and would create category clutter.
 * We already have a separate list article, List of members of the United Confederate Veterans, for any reader interested in this topic but the contents differ so I copied the current contents right here so no work is lost if another editor wants to expand that article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:58, 11 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Background We recently deleted another membership category for another veteran group right here. - RevelationDirect (talk)
 * Delete per nom. Just membership of an organization is hardly ever defining. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:32, 11 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Explorers of the Atlantic Ocean

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:26, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting Category:Explorers of the Atlantic Ocean
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (Either WP:SMALLCAT or WP:OVERLAPCAT)
 * This category is unlikely to aid navigation because it contains two articles: Christopher Columbus made 4 voyages from Europe across the Atlantic to the Americas while Juan de Bermúdez made 11. This doesn't seem defining since both explored the Atlantic only incidentally as a means to an end, not the goal. (Bermúdez did discover Bermuda, albeit by accident on a return trip.) We could overcome WP:SMALLCAT by adding all the other articles alrea~dy in Category:Explorers of North America and Category:Explorers of South America, but that would just move the problem to WP:OVERLAPCAT. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:58, 11 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Populate. I'm not convinced it would cause a complete overlap. William Clark, Henry Ellis (governor), Juan de Fuca, Henry Timberlake... many explorers of the continents' interiors and Pacific coasts never ventured into the Atlantic. Grutness... wha?   02:46, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * That's a fair point: it wouldn't be a total overlap. - RevelationDirect (talk) 09:30, 11 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete, I do not have objections against the category as such but the two articles currently in the category do not belong. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:35, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It's now populated with over 20 articles about explorers of the Atlantic. Grutness... wha?   02:02, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
 * No, these all suffer from the same problem, they are all explorers of the Atlantic coasts (mostly the Americas) rather than of the ocean itself. If any, geologists and biologists (studying Atlantic sea life) might fit. But not sure about it. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:46, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep -- now adequately populated, though I am not sure why Sebastian Cabot is not included. The category might be better for a headnote defining its scope more precisely to the Age of Exploration.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:50, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Sebastian Cabot (explorer) is already in:
 * Category:Explorers from the Republic of Venice
 * Category:Explorers of Canada
 * Category:Explorers of Argentina
 * Category:Italian explorers of North America
 * Category:Italian explorers of South America
 * Isn't that sufficient? And doesn't this also illustrate that he explored the Americas rather than the Atlantic? Marcocapelle (talk) 18:27, 16 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete. The Atlantic Ocean is so vast that exploration of the Atlantic Ocean can refer to too many totally unrelated things to make a defining topic. What is there in common between Pytheas, Hanno the Navigator (other potentially legitimate candidates) and later explorers of the Caribbean, Southern Atlantic or the Northwest passage, besides simply being navigators and explorers? I doubt that there would be publications dedicated to the exploration of the Atlantic, all of it, and not the rest of the world. Explorers are better defined by more precise (i.e. smaller) geographies and/or by their origin. Place Clichy (talk) 08:12, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete This was not really a distinct group of explorers. I have to admit that I think in the long run we need to trim exploere categories. The fact that Sebastian Cabot is in 5 such categories is clearly excessive.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:33, 2 June 2021 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.