Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 11



Category:Ukrainian Territorial defence battalions personnel
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 May 26%23Category:Ukrainian Territorial defence battalions personnel

Germany 1000-1803

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge Timrollpickering (talk) 00:12, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose merging
 * Category:11th century in Germany to Category:11th century in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1020s in Germany to Category:1020s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1030s in Germany to Category:1030s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1040s in Germany to Category:1040s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1060s in Germany to Category:1060s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1070s in Germany to Category:1070s in the Holy Roman Empire


 * Category:1080s in Germany to Category:1080s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1090s in Germany to Category:1090s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:12th century in Germany to Category:12th century in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1100s in Germany to Category:1100s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1110s in Germany to Category:1110s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1120s in Germany to Category:1120s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1130s in Germany to Category:1130s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1150s in Germany to Category:1150s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1160s in Germany to Category:1160s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1170s in Germany to Category:1170s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1180s in Germany to Category:1180s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1190s in Germany to Category:1190s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:13th century in Germany to Category:13th century in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1200s in Germany to Category:1200s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1210s in Germany to Category:1210s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1220s in Germany to Category:1220s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1230s in Germany to Category:1230s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1240s in Germany to Category:1240s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1250s in Germany to Category:1250s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1260s in Germany to Category:1260s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1270s in Germany to Category:1270s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1280s in Germany to Category:1280s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:14th century in Germany to Category:14th century in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1300s in Germany to Category:1300s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1320s in Germany to Category:1320s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1340s in Germany to Category:1340s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1360s in Germany to Category:1360s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1370s in Germany to Category:1370s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1390s in Germany to Category:1390s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:15th century in Germany to Category:15th century in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1400s in Germany to Category:1400s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1410s in Germany to Category:1410s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1430s in Germany to Category:1430s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1440s in Germany to Category:1440s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1450s in Germany to Category:1450s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1460s in Germany to Category:1460s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1470s in Germany to Category:1470s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1480s in Germany to Category:1480s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1490s in Germany to Category:1490s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:16th century in Germany to Category:16th century in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1500s in Germany to Category:1500s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1502 in Germany to Category:1502 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1510s in Germany to Category:1510s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1520s in Germany to Category:1520s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1522 in Germany to Category:1522 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1523 in Germany to Category:1523 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1524 in Germany to Category:1524 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1525 in Germany to Category:1525 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1526 in Germany to Category:1526 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1529 in Germany to Category:1529 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1530s in Germany to Category:1530s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1534 in Germany to Category:1534 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1535 in Germany to Category:1535 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1538 in Germany to Category:1538 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1540s in Germany to Category:1540s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1540 in Germany to Category:1540 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1541 in Germany to Category:1541 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1545 in Germany to Category:1545 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1547 in Germany to Category:1547 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1550s in Germany to Category:1550s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1552 in Germany to Category:1552 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1553 in Germany to Category:1553 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1554 in Germany to Category:1554 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1555 in Germany to Category:1555 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1560s in Germany to Category:1560s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1562 in Germany to Category:1562 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1563 in Germany to Category:1563 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1564 in Germany to Category:1564 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1570s in Germany to Category:1570s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1570 in Germany to Category:1570 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1573 in Germany to Category:1573 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1579 in Germany to Category:1579 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1580s in Germany to Category:1580s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1582 in Germany to Category:1582 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1583 in Germany to Category:1583 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1584 in Germany to Category:1584 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1585 in Germany to Category:1585 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1586 in Germany to Category:1586 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1587 in Germany to Category:1587 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1588 in Germany to Category:1588 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1589 in Germany to Category:1589 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1590s in Germany to Category:1590s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1590 in Germany to Category:1590 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1597 in Germany to Category:1597 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:17th century in Germany to Category:17th century in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1600s in Germany to Category:1600s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1603 in Germany to Category:1603 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1604 in Germany to Category:1604 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1605 in Germany to Category:1605 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1606 in Germany to Category:1606 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1610s in Germany to Category:1610s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1611 in Germany to Category:1611 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1618 in Germany to Category:1618 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1620s in Germany to Category:1620s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1621 in Germany to Category:1621 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1622 in Germany to Category:1622 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1623 in Germany to Category:1623 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1626 in Germany to Category:1626 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1627 in Germany to Category:1627 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1628 in Germany to Category:1628 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1629 in Germany to Category:1629 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1630s in Germany to Category:1630s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1630 in Germany to Category:1630 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1631 in Germany to Category:1631 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1634 in Germany to Category:1634 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1635 in Germany to Category:1635 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1640s in Germany to Category:1640s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1648 in Germany to Category:1648 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1650s in Germany to Category:1650s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1658 in Germany to Category:1658 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1660s in Germany to Category:1660s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1670s in Germany to Category:1670s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1673 in Germany to Category:1673 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1678 in Germany to Category:1678 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1680s in Germany to Category:1680s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1682 in Germany to Category:1682 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1690s in Germany to Category:1690s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1693 in Germany to Category:1693 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1698 in Germany to Category:1698 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:18th century in Germany to Category:18th century in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1700s in Germany to Category:1700s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1701 in Germany to Category:1701 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1702 in Germany to Category:1702 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1703 in Germany to Category:1703 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1709 in Germany to Category:1709 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1710s in Germany to Category:1710s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1715 in Germany to Category:1715 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1718 in Germany to Category:1718 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1720s in Germany to Category:1720s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1720 in Germany to Category:1720 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1723 in Germany to Category:1723 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1724 in Germany to Category:1724 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1730s in Germany to Category:1730s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1731 in Germany to Category:1731 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1735 in Germany to Category:1735 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1738 in Germany to Category:1738 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1740s in Germany to Category:1740s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1742 in Germany to Category:1742 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1744 in Germany to Category:1744 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1749 in Germany to Category:1749 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1750s in Germany to Category:1750s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1751 in Germany to Category:1751 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1752 in Germany to Category:1752 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1754 in Germany to Category:1754 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1755 in Germany to Category:1755 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1757 in Germany to Category:1757 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1758 in Germany to Category:1758 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1759 in Germany to Category:1759 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1760s in Germany to Category:1760s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1762 in Germany to Category:1762 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1763 in Germany to Category:1763 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1770s in Germany to Category:1770s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1770 in Germany to Category:1770 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1771 in Germany to Category:1771 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1773 in Germany to Category:1773 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1775 in Germany to Category:1775 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1776 in Germany to Category:1776 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1777 in Germany to Category:1777 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1778 in Germany to Category:1778 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1779 in Germany to Category:1779 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1780s in Germany to Category:1780s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1781 in Germany to Category:1781 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1782 in Germany to Category:1782 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1788 in Germany to Category:1788 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1789 in Germany to Category:1789 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1790s in Germany to Category:1790s in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1790 in Germany to Category:1790 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1791 in Germany to Category:1791 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1792 in Germany to Category:1792 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1793 in Germany to Category:1793 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1795 in Germany to Category:1795 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1796 in Germany to Category:1796 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1797 in Germany to Category:1797 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1798 in Germany to Category:1798 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1799 in Germany to Category:1799 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1800 in Germany to Category:1800 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1801 in Germany to Category:1801 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1802 in Germany to Category:1802 in the Holy Roman Empire
 * Category:1803 in Germany to Category:1803 in the Holy Roman Empire


 * Nominator's rationale: merge, there wasn't any state or principality within the Holy Roman Empire called Germany. Rather what is currently Germany was the center of the Holy Roman Empire most of the time. This is an unhelpful fork. (The categories have not been tagged yet.) Marcocapelle (talk) 17:52, 11 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Merge, confusing to name cats by inexistent nations at the time. Anachronistic. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 19:22, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Further comment, the United States was founded in 1776. There categories such as Category:1775 in the United States exist exclusively as redirects to Category:1775 in the Thirteen Colonies. These categories are based on political entities, not geography. Germany as one political entity was not formally established until 1871, and it would be pretty imprudent to classify it as a political entity long before it was actually unified because a few texts may refer to the region as Germany. It is confusing to everybody. We wouldn't subcategorize Pocahontas as an Category:American people, that just makes no sense, because the United States did not formally exist yet. It's anachronism, nothing more. Merge these. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 14:40, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No books about the United States before the establishment of the United States, while Germany was a common name for the region roughly equivalent to the current country. Oh, and Pocahontas is categorized in Category:American emigrants to England and through subcats in Category:American people by period by state, Category:American families of English ancestry, Category:17th-century American women (yes, that one exists), Category:American Christians, ...


 * Keep, nothing confusing about it, it is what happened in the past in what is currently Germany. When you read a history of Germany, you wouldn't expect it to start in 1865 or so surely? No objection to adding the HRE cats to articles where appropriate of course, or to make the Germany cats subcats of the HRE cat. Furthermore, "Germany" was in use for the territory at the time, see e.g. this 1800 book or this 1702 book or this book. People in those ages wouldn't look at you with incomprehension if you said something happened in Germany, it was a common indicator for what is very roughly the same as the current state. Fram (talk) 07:29, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support All these categories are at a state level. The HRE was a state in the nominated time period; Germany was not a state. We must not confuse German-speaking countries or even Germanic peoples with a state. To keep these categories would be a case of presentism - the present state of affairs colonizing the past. "Germany" in 1020 was a vastly different territory to Germany in 2020. Let us not indulge in false, ahistorical equivalences that can only be motivated by misty-eyed nostalgia for the "golden era"; leave such fantasies to Brexiteers. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:29, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Let's keep our ideas of what motivates others perhaps to ourselves? It is pertinently not true that "all these categories are at a state level", we have such categories for many different levels, e.g. for 1778 we have them for Italy, for Norway, for Wales, for England (and for Great Britain), for Nova Scotia (and for Canada), but also for even higher levels like "The Caribbean". Germany isn't even anachronistic, as for most of this period we had even a King of the Germans, but in any case there is no reason why "presentism", i.e. the current borders, aren't a useful method to categorize things, to present things to our readers, just like it is done in many scholarly historical books. What happened in year X in what is currently is Germany, in many cases still influences or is present in Germany right now. Fram (talk) 14:05, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Having almost every article in both a HRE category and a German category is a prime example of overcategorization by largely overlapping categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:16, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The HRE is a lot larger than Germany though (includes e.g. Austria, large parts of Italy, and parts of other current countries for some periods of its existence), and instead of having both in the articles, one could make the Germany cats subcats of the HRE cats instead. Fram (talk) 07:36, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
 * That would be even worse because the articles should be in the HRE categories, since that was the relevant polity at the time. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:45, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support -- The full name of the polity is (I believe) "Holy Roman Empire of the German nation", though it included what is now Belgium, Netherlands, and part of Italy. The American analogy is a bad one, because America is a continent, though it is probably being used for the English provinces (colonies) in America.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:26, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
 * State, nation and country are confused concepts. We have to make the best sense we can of this confusion, and that will mean looking at each problem seperately. I think that Germany was generally seen as distinct from the Holy Roman Empire. Exactly where the boundaries of Germany were thought to be is clearly an issue, but I think its a mistake to subsume it into the HRE, and if we did we should also subsume the other constituent territories in the relevant periods, as the boundaries of the Empire certainly changed over time. Rathfelder (talk) 19:58, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Germany was not a constituent territory of the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire consisted of a kingdom (Bohemia) and lots of duchies and counties, but none of them called Germany. See List of states in the Holy Roman Empire. Germany may occasionally have been used as a synonym of the Holy Roman Empire though. In any case there is no reason for forking. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:43, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Germany didnt have a legal existence until 1870, but that did not mean that it didnt exist. The various small states were regarded as German. The HRE was "a multi-ethnic complex of territories in Central Europe", and as the HRE article states "The imperial office was traditionally elective through the mostly German prince-electors." and "From the 1680s to 1789, Germany comprised many small territories which were parts of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation." as 18th-century history of Germany tells us. Rathfelder (talk) 21:53, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * At best this only confirms that Germany is sometimes used as the synonym of the Holy Roman Empire. It still is no reason for forking. At worst the article refers to the modern Federal Republic of Germany. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:00, 15 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:British politics
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 May 12%23Category:British politics

Category:Nine Percent

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 05:35, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting nine percent
 * Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary eponymous parent category for a single topic sub-category. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 16:50, 11 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete as unnecessary. NavjotSR (talk) 05:26, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete as unnecessary, but be careful not to orphan the subcat. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:32, 14 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Roger Williams University School of Law faculty

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 05:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Roger Williams University School of Law faculty to Category:Roger Williams University faculty
 * Nominator's rationale: Category with just one entry. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:14, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

*Merge. Not enough to be viable.Rathfelder (talk) 15:27, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge, makes sense to merge; unnecessary subcat. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 20:16, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge as even its creator (Rathfelder) has no faith in it. Oculi (talk) 18:15, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 02:07, 18 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Members of the Society for Research Synthesis Methodology

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:35, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting members of the society for research synthesis methodology
 * Nominator's rationale: Non-defining characteristic per WP:NONDEFINING and WP:COPDEF. A scholar could be in dozens of societies or clubs, from highly selective to due-based. Membership in this society does not appear particularly prestigious nor well-known. Membership is not mentioned at all in several of the articles in this category. --Animalparty! (talk) 00:58, 11 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete, membership alone is hardly ever defining. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:00, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom -- Lenticel ( talk ) 02:07, 18 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.