Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 21



Category:Television stations in the Champaign–Springfield–Decatur market
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 May 28%23Category:Television stations in the Champaign–Springfield–Decatur market

Category:Japanese Players Texas Rangers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:15, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting japanese players texas rangers
 * Nominator's rationale: Nonsense category, an unencyclopedic cross-categorization. UnitedStatesian (talk) 18:43, 21 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete Likely intended to be an intersection of Category:Texas Rangers players and Category:Japanese Americans, which fails WP:EGRS. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 23:20, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment It should be Category:Japanese Texas Rangers players. The category has 5 articles which we normally consider sufficient for a category.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:19, 23 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Korean Players Texas Rangers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:19, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting korean players texas rangers
 * Nominator's rationale: Nonsense category, an unencyclopedic cross-categorization. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:41, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per a nomination that was so well-phrased, so well-thought out, that I had to use it myself. 😃 UnitedStatesian (talk) 18:44, 21 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete Likely intended to be an intersection of Category:Texas Rangers players and Category:Korean Americans, which fails WP:EGRS. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 23:20, 22 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Virtual YouTubers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:VTubers. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:58, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Virtual YouTubers to Category:VTubers
 * Nominator's rationale: Match parent article ViperSnake151   Talk  17:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support - The term VTuber has been embraced for those using avatars on other platforms as well and is not exclusive to just YouTube. The change would allow link-up to those other platforms. – WashuOtaku (talk) 23:00, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support - In every context I am aware of they are called VTubers and not Virtual YouTubers and even the article about the concept is now at VTuber. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 08:51, 30 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Infobox song with A-side or B-side quote formatting fix needed
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: soft delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:23, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting infobox song with a-side or b-side quote formatting fix needed
 * Nominator's rationale: This category is no longer applied by Infobox song, and its name does not appear to exist in template space. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:13, 21 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People of the Ottoman Empire of Ukrainian descent
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  18:46, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting people of the ottoman empire of ukrainian descent
 * Nominator's rationale: This category seems to be an undue piece of POV pushing. I noticed it today when a bunch of Ottoman royals were added by a Ukrainian football coach. This information is not supported in any of these articles. Presumably there was a Slavic courtesan involved in the Ottoman succession at some point, and that is where the premise arises, but even then, what one might except is a single sultan tagged as being of Slavic descent.
 * The are very real questions to be asked about whether the notion of this particular category can ever be substantiated given that the death of the Ottoman Empire preceded the birth of modern Ukraine and the crystallization of Ukrainian identity. Because of this, there are unlikely to be any sources labelling Slavic concubines in the Ottoman period as "Ukrainian". But again, this is somewhat needless to expound, because ultimately, it is fairly self-evident that there is not a single scrap of information in any of these articles, let alone reliable sources, mentioning anything about Ukraine or Ukrainian descent. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:09, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Also the user seems to place this to every Ottoman royalty he sees. Beshogur (talk) 09:28, 21 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Support as an obtuse piece of presentism. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:14, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Laurel Lodged: I assume you mean you disagree with my point about the anachronous nature of the category as a whole, but that was only one of two points. Perhaps the most important is that there is no information that I can see, let alone reliable sources, sourcing the attribution of this category as a concept to any of the article's that have been very recently categorized with it. If there is presentism involved, it is in the sudden tagging off half the genealogy of Ottoman sultans as somehow now of Ukrainian descent (perhaps not so coincidentally as a war is giving rise to renewed Ukrainian identity politics). Iskandar323 (talk) 08:22, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oops. Amended now. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:48, 21 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete - if kept, a neater way would be to make it a container category for eg Category:16th-century Ottoman sultans (if the unspecified premise supports this). Oculi (talk) 10:23, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete: Anachronistic, also used as propaganda tool. Beshogur (talk) 09:49, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete: The actual ancestry of Hurrem is unknown, she was probably born somewhere in today's west Ukraine. Calling her Ukrainian is unjustified. I doubt anyone considered Selim II children as being of Ukrainian descent.Marcelus (talk) 13:46, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete -- The article on Hurrem Sultan says that she was a Ruthenian and thus a Polish subject in what is now Ukraine. Descent categories are of some use within a few generations when it may still be a defining characteristic, but most of the content seems to be members of the Ottoman dynasty long after her time, when having a such a descent was a trivial characteristic.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:26, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete, the concept of a distinct Ukraine was not solidified in this period and this certainly isn't how these Ottoman people identified.-- Mvqr (talk) 11:20, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete as applied. There may well have been people resident somewhere in the Ottoman Empire in the 1880s who would have thought of themselves somewhat along the terms of "Ukranina descent", but this is being used to telegraph a minor point in ancestry that the person does not adknowledge. Descent categories need to be based on more than traceable blood, they need to reflect social organization. Likewise we need to delete all such categories where the person only allegedly discovered it based on a DNA test.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:17, 4 May 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Genevan diplomats
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: procedural close moving this back to WP:CFDS (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 20:21, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Genevan diplomats to Category:Diplomats from the Republic of Geneva
 * Nominator's rationale: rename, per WP:C2C, it should have been speedied per discussion below. Second, the current name is very confusing because it might be taken to refer to 19th- to 21st-century diplomats who happened to live in Geneva, but that is not what the category is intended for. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 21 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Category:Genevan diplomats to Category:Diplomats from the Republic of Geneva – C2C: convention within . Oculi (talk) 18:00, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Category:Genevan scholars to Category:Scholars from the Republic of Geneva (also its sole subcat is 'from the Republic of Geneva')
 * Category:Genevan businesspeople to Category:Businesspeople from the Republic of Geneva  (also its subcats are all 'from the Republic of Geneva')
 * The convention for Category:People by occupation and nationality seems to normally be to use the adjective for nationality. I think the Republic of Geneva categories should probably be changed to fit that.  Rathfelder (talk) 19:32, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Why then have you proposed Category:People from the Republic of Geneva at cfd yesterday? (2022 April 15#Category:People from the Republic of Geneva (1541–1815).) Category:People by former country, which is more relevant, does not predominantly use 'Fooian'. Oculi (talk) 14:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to work out a scheme which works, and as Category:People by former country shows its not obvious. Rathfelder (talk) 19:19, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * a "from" scheme might work better for former countries, since the whole idea of nationality is pretty recent. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:00, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It was obvious that the established scheme within was 'People from the Republic of Geneva' until Rathfelder began to insert 'Genevan' subcats at random here and there. All the Genevan ones are Rathfelder's (created in Apr 2022) but Category:Musicians from the Republic of Geneva was also created by Rathfelder (whose inconsistency is inconsistent). Follow existing schemes, or bring them to cfd. An oppose to a speedy by the creator of an outlier category should be ignored. Oculi (talk) 08:58, 19 April 2022 (UTC)


 * pinging contributors to speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree with this. Rathfelder (talk) 07:30, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * if you are okay, shall we then move it back to speedy? Marcocapelle (talk) 19:54, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes please. Rathfelder (talk) 19:58, 21 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Support down with the tyranny of demonyms. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:15, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support - C2C: convention within (which is at cfd for renaming without the brackets: 2022 April 15#Category:People from the Republic of Geneva (1541–1815)). Oculi (talk) 10:25, 21 April 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Lower Yangtze Mandarin
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2022 May 8%23Lower Yangtze Mandarin