Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 3



Category:Percussion instruments by tradition
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 11%23Category:Percussion instruments by tradition

Category:Suzie Wong

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:05, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting suzie wong
 * Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization by association. Apart from the original novel, "franchise" article (which it's not entirely clear needs to exist as a separate topic from the original novel at all) and the articles about the film and stage adaptations, everything else here is either a person who was somehow involved with one of those things (in violation of WP:PERFCAT) or a documentary film about an actress who was in the film (cross-referencing both PERFCAT and ASSOC errors.) And if everything that doesn't actually belong here at all was removed, what was left would just be a WP:SMALLCAT, and not particularly necessary anyway since they're all already crosslinked by a navigational box. Bearcat (talk) 20:41, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Good spot, Bearcat. Delete; I have also tagged Suzie Wong (franchise) for merger to the article on the original novel. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:54, 4 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Vulgarity

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:06, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting vulgarity
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT of unclear necessity, serving only to link the eponym itself with one article about a particular type of vulgarity -- but both articles already crosslink each other in body text as it is, meaning there's no pressing need for a category to group them together. Bearcat (talk) 19:47, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:41, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. The two articles are sufficiently linked already. Category:Profanity has substantial content, and there is no need to put anything else into Category:Vulgarity. – Fayenatic  L ondon 18:00, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Pichpich (talk) 23:41, 4 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:Swoope

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:07, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting swoope
 * Propose deleting gawvi
 * Propose deleting beam (rapper)
 * Propose deleting dj official
 * Propose deleting andy mineo
 * Propose deleting jeremy soule
 * Propose deleting tunnel rats (music group)
 * Nominator's rationale: Eponymous categories for musicians without the volume of spinoff content needed to justify an eponymous category. As always, every musician who exists does not automatically get one of these just because he has an albums category, a songs category and a BLP -- he needs to have a significant volume of additional spinoff content that needs categorization for its relationship to him but doesn't already fit into established songs and albums category schemes -- such as books about him, films about him, and on and so forth. Bearcat (talk) 19:31, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Note the albums and songs categories normally link to each other thanks to the templates, but in order to have that work properly, some of the subcategories need to be renamed ("produced by" should be removed from the category name). Marcocapelle (talk) 22:42, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, particularly those with a single subcat. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 02:48, 4 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:Family of Charan Singh

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:08, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting family of charan singh
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT for the person named in the category title, his son and his grandson, based solely on family association. As at Family of Rajendra Prasad below, we do not automatically need one of these the moment two or three people with Wikipedia articles happen to be related to each other -- the basis for one of these would be if the "Singh family" were itself a topic of collective coverage and analysis as a group, which hasn't been demonstrated in any of the articles, and even if it were there would still need to be considerably more than just three people to file in it regardless. Bearcat (talk) 19:25, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:51, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:All World Gayatri Pariwar

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:09, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting all world gayatri pariwar
 * Propose deleting members of awgp
 * Nominator's rationale: Eponymous category for a topic that doesn't have a Wikipedia article about it to explain what it is or why it would be defining of the contents. The eponym exists on Wikipedia only as a redirect to a place it's associated with, not as an article about it as a thing, and the contents of the article are that place, two people associated with it, and a university that happens to be located in that same area but whose article entirely fails to explain any connection to the topic beyond geographic proximity. This is not sufficient basis for an eponymous category at all. And meanwhile, the "Members of AWGP" category only contains the same two people and a redirect. Bearcat (talk) 19:21, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Support, not a defining characteristic except for the two founders, which then fails per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:54, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:Family of Rajendra Prasad

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:11, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting family of rajendra prasad
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT for the person named in the category title, his wife and one of their children, based solely on family association. As always, we do not automatically need one of these the moment two or three people with Wikipedia articles happen to be related to each other -- the basis for one of these would be if the "Prasad family" were itself a topic of collective coverage and analysis as a group, which hasn't been demonstrated in any of the articles, and even if it were there would still need to be considerably more than just three people to file in it regardless. Bearcat (talk) 19:14, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:52, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nominator's rationale. 🌊PacificDepthstalk 05:47, 5 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:Films with make-up by Stan Winston

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:11, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting films with make-up by stan winston
 * Propose deleting films with make-up by rick baker
 * Nominator's rationale: Two isolated categories for films on a non-defining characteristic. We don't have any established scheme of "Films by make-up artist" for these to be part of -- these (both newly created within the past week) are the only "Films with make-up by So-and-So" categories that exist at all. And since films aren't defined by the matter of who did their make-up, there's no value in starting a new comprehensive scheme for this now -- but there's also no credible reason why Stan Winston or Rick Baker would be of such rarefied ubernotability as to require special treatment that other make-up artists aren't getting, either. Bearcat (talk) 18:55, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete, films are not primarily known for the person who did the make-up. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:56, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:YELP Fellows

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:12, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting yelp fellows
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT for just two people, based on membership in a youth organization (no, not what you're thinking) that isn't highly prominent enough to count as a defining characteristic of these people. And even if it could be expanded enough to justify keeping it, it would likely have to be renamed for clarity anyway, given that I had to include a "not what you're thinking" proviso above. Bearcat (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:56, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:St John fleet

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:14, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting st john fleet
 * Nominator's rationale: Category of unclear utility. The usage note here says that "the Vehicle fleet of St John Ambulance consists of a variety of vehicles from brands such as; Mercedes Benz, Toyota, Hyundai, Isuzu and Volkswagen" -- but the fact that St. John Ambulance happens to use a particular brand of vehicle wouldn't be a WP:DEFINING characteristic of the vehicle manufacturer, so there's no basis for categorizing Mercedes Benz or Toyota or Hyundai or Isuzu or Volkswagen here, and the only article actually filed in the category is one country's particular St. John Ambulance organization, which is a clear misfile as the organization is not literally a vehicle. Bearcat (talk) 18:34, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete, it is unclear how this category might be populated. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:57, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete not a defining characteristic. (that's if I understand the intended scope of the category) Pichpich (talk) 23:34, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per above -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:20, 5 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:Underserved indigenous languages

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:15, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting underserved indigenous languages
 * Nominator's rationale: Category with subjective inclusion criteria. This describes the topic of "underserved" languages as "those with a small literary corpus", but there's no clear or objective criteria for how small the literary corpus has to be in order to be small enough. Bearcat (talk) 18:30, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:00, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:Songs about body positivity

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:15, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting songs about body positivity
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT for just one song. As always, "Songs about [topic]" does not automatically need to exist for every possible topic anybody could possibly sing a song about -- it would require at least five or six articles, not just one, and it would require "songs about body positivity" to represent a collective grouping that reliable sources have already identified and analyzed as a topic in its own right. Bearcat (talk) 18:25, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:00, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:X in Boston by neighborhood

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:16, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Restaurants in Beacon Hill, Boston to Category:Restaurants in Boston
 * Propose merging Category:Restaurants in Charlestown, Boston to Category:Restaurants in Boston
 * Propose merging Category:Restaurants in East Boston to Category:Restaurants in Boston
 * Propose merging Category:Restaurants in Financial District, Boston to Category:Restaurants in Boston
 * Propose merging Category:Restaurants in Jamaica Plain, Boston to Category:Restaurants in Boston
 * Propose merging Category:Restaurants in South Boston to Category:Restaurants in Boston
 * Propose merging Category:Restaurants in North End, Boston to Category:Restaurants in Boston
 * Propose merging Category:Restaurants in South End, Boston to Category:Restaurants in Boston
 * Propose deleting Category:Bookstores in Financial District, Boston
 * Propose deleting Category:Buildings and structures in Charlestown, Boston
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT and WP:NARROWCAT. These small categories for individual neighborhoods of Boston hurt navigation. User:Namiba 18:25, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge, per nom. Might be worth noting that these small cats were created by a user who has a longtime habit of such activity. Eric talk 20:52, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Question, shouldn't it be a dual merge, also to the neighborhood parent category? Marcocapelle (talk) 22:32, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I've double-checked and each article is now in the neighborhood category as well. No dual merge is necessary.--User:Namiba 17:34, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Note I've added several similar subcategories. The only articles within then already in appropriate subcategories.--User:Namiba 18:31, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge Ultimately, it makes more sense to have a single category as it will be easier for the reader to find what he's looking for. Pichpich (talk) 23:38, 4 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom, my question has been satisfactorily answered. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:53, 5 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Lost Media

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:18, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting lost media
 * Nominator's rationale: Category of unclear necessity. The contents here are not individual works of lost media, but concept articles about "Lost [type of media]" (artworks, film, literature, television) — but all of them are already categorized in (either directly or through a subcategory) as it is, making this essentially just redundant to another category that already exists. Bearcat (talk) 18:09, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:OVERLAPCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:01, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per above -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:21, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete, it's my bad for not searching well enough. --Noilaedi (talk) 19:44, 5 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:Trilateral Commission members

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:19, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting trilateral commission members
 * Nominator's rationale: Category that was previously deleted at Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 26. As that was 15 years ago and consensus can change, I'm listing it for discussion rather than just speedy deleting it as a recreation of previously deleted content -- but it's still not entirely clear that this would be a defining characteristic of the people listed here, so CFD needs to weigh in one way or the other. Bearcat (talk) 18:04, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete, just membership of anything is hardly ever a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:02, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Minor planets by source of name, redux

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:34, 10 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Algonquian mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Arthurian legend
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Aztec mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Baltic mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Buddhist mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Celtic mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Chinese mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Egyptian mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Finnish mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Greek mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Hawaiian mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Hindu mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Inca mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Inuit mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Iroquoian mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Japanese mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Luiseno mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Maori mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Norse mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Roman mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from San mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Semitic mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Slavic mythology
 * Propose deleting Category:Minor planets named from Vanuatuan mythology

Nominator's rationale: Parent category was deleted a couple of weeks ago per Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 14 as a violation of WP:SHAREDNAME, but these were left behind even though the issues aren't substantively different — if the parent category isn't defining enough to exist, then the child categories inherently aren't defining enough to exist either. But conversely, if the child categories are defining enough to exist, then the parent category is necessary to keep them together and has to be restored, not least because the deletion of the parent left a couple of these completely orphaned from the category tree. Bearcat (talk) 17:45, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SHAREDNAME and per precedent. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:03, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SHAREDNAME, precedent and Marcocapelle. Oculi (talk) 01:40, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete as the guy who complained that brought this issue to ANI instead of following up with their own CfD. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 17:32, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * As for orphaning, I have put them all within Category:Named minor planets for now. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:49, 4 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:World Junior Table Tennis Championships
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 11%23Category:World Junior Table Tennis Championships

Category:National members of the European Union of Gymnastics
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 11%23Category:National members of the European Union of Gymnastics

Category:American settlers
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 11%23Category:American settlers

Category:Soviet people of Ukrainian descent
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:23, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting soviet people of ukrainian descent
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, after the split as decided in this previous discussion this is all that is left in the descent category. It does not seem worthwhile to keep. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:50, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Note: the proposed target in the previous discussion, Soviet Ukraininans, was merged to Category:Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic people per this other discussion. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:24, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Support The "descent" categories are typically used for intergenerational situations, so that is not a useful category for Soviet Ukrainians. While ethnic nationality was documented in Soviet times, the coverage of this is poor thus it's not a useful categorisation method now. Much better information is available on location, so Category:Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic people is sufficient for this need. SFB 15:02, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:Star Magic Batch 1-21
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:25, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 1 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 2 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 3 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 4 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 5 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 6 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 7 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 8 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 9 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 10 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 11 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 12 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 13 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 14 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 15 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 16 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 17 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 18 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 19 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 20 to Category:Star Magic
 * Propose merging Category:Star Magic Batch 21 to Category:Star Magic
 * Nominator's rationale: These categories are examples of WP:PERFCAT. User:Namiba 14:42, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  08:44, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * with a PERFCAT rationale one would expect a proposal to delete rather than to merge. Why isn't that the case here? Marcocapelle (talk) 09:53, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * I'm fine with deletion as well.--User:Namiba 18:31, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:05, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


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Category:Sexual affairs in the Evangelical Church
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Sexual abuse scandals in Protestantism. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  20:29, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Sexual affairs in the Evangelical Church to Category:Sexual abuse scandals in the Evangelical Church
 * Nominator's rationale: "Sexual affairs" has a certain connotation that is unwelcome and rather limiting in this topic. I propose "Sexual abuse scandals" for parity with Catholic Church categories. Elizium23 (talk) 09:26, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, I created this category. I worded the text incorrectly, sorry. I agree with Elizium23's proposal. I wish you a nice day. Langladure (talk) 09:57, 17 November 2022 (UTC)


 * There is not just one "Evangelical Church", but or . As e.g. Ravi Zacharias committed abuse outside a church setting (in a parachurch organization), I suggest Category:Sexual abuse scandals in evangelicalism. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:39, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Rename per User:Fayenatic london. There is no single evangelical church.--User:Namiba 17:24, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Only one of the articles using this category is actually an article about a scandal or affair. The other articles are for people who were involved with a scandal. This suggests to me that the name of the category or proposed name is still not right. It could be removed outright, as a not-defining category, but perhaps a more suitable name could be proposed. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:24, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Category:Sexual abuse scandals in evangelicalism is certainly a good option. An alternative is Category:Sexual abuse scandals in Christianity (that does not exist yet) in order to make the Catholic category a subcat of it. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:08, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose – The term "abuse" is too specific, as not all sexual scandals involve or alledge abuse. Jerry Falwell, Jr. watching his wife and the poolboy is but one example. <span style="font-family:Futura,'Century Gothic','Trebuchet MS',serif;"><b style="color:#1974D2;">Senator2029</b> <b style="color:#1974D2;">【talk】</b> 08:29, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Jerry Falwell, Jr. watching his wife and the poolboy just does not belong in the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:56, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Senator2029: How do you feel about "sexual abuse scandals" in the Catholic Church? Is that too specific? Should we recategorize into adultery and fornication scandals? What about abuse of power scandals, which is what they really are? Elizium23 (talk) 00:40, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  23:10, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment -- If we must have this it should be Category:Sexual abuse scandals in evangelical churches, but it would be better distributed to each denomination. Peterkingiron (talk) 23:02, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Peterkingiron: I disagree that we should distribute it across each Evangelical "denomination". Do you understand how many hundreds of separate entities that would entail? And do you also comprehend the internecine arguments about where the sexual abuse scandal belongs, here or there in which denomination? No way. We need to place a large umbrella as possible around this until the topic supports dividing it up to anything smaller than Evangelicalism. As it is, there will be enough trouble definining the borders of that one. Elizium23 (talk) 00:39, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  08:23, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree with Elizium23, a further split by denomination would only lead to very tiny categories. Again, making it broader ("in Christianity") instead of narrower is still an option. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:59, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * "in Christianity" would rightly parent Category:Child sexual abuse scandals in Christianity as well as Category:Catholic Church sexual abuse scandals. Alternatively, that could be created as a new parent, and this could be "in Protestantism" or "evangelicalism" as suggested above. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:39, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * 'in Protestantism' is a new suggestion by User:Fayenatic london just before the last relisting. That has clearly advantages over 'in evangelicalism' as it is easier to classify denominations as Protestant than as evangelical, and the Wikipedia category tree is also primarily based on Protestantism. What do you think? Marcocapelle (talk) 09:56, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * It's alright by me -- unless there exist Evangelicals who deny that they can be categorized as Protestant, then we'd have outliers. Elizium23 (talk) 11:31, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * But most of the articles in the category are about people, one is about a church, one is about scandals. Looking at people, Brian Houston has not been accused of abuse, but only of failing to report abuse by Frank Houston whose article is in category category:Child sexual abuse in Australia but not the above. GRACE (organization) is not a scandal, but an organisation that assists addressing the problems. Josh Duggar seems to have very little to do with a church, though a church did try to assist. Could hardly be in category:Religious figures convicted of child sexual abuse. Ted Haggard may be appropriate for the category or its proposed alternative names. -- so every entry needs to be check for suitability. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:28, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Most of the articles in the country sub-cats of Category:Catholic Church sexual abuse scandals, and in Category:Child sexual abuse scandals in Anglicanism, are also about people, so that characteristic does not preclude building a useful category. For GRACE etc I have set up Category:Response to sexual abuse scandals in Christianity, so the GRACE article could be removed from the scandals category, although I have left it there as its focus is within evangelicalism. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:22, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I have added Jim Bakker, and Emmanuel Church, Wimbledon as the latter covers the recent scandal deleted per Articles for deletion/Jonathan Fletcher. There is sufficient content here to justify a category for evangelicalism, and I have gone ahead and created the parent Category:Sexual abuse scandals in Christianity. An intermediate category for Protestantism could be added later if there are other things to add as well as the Anglicanism category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:22, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Making it a subcategory of Category:Protestantism and using 'in Protestantism' makes sense to me.--User:Namiba 17:26, 4 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Horses in mythology
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: reverse merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  15:32, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Horses in mythology to Category:Mythological horses
 * Nominator's rationale: Categories are redundant and overlap. RaidRexx (talk) 04:22, 17 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment, not every article in subCategory:Horse in Chinese mythology is about an individual mythological horse so the target Category:Mythological horses is not entirely accurate. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:57, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I guess I would need guidance on what would or wouldn't fall into one or the other, because Category:Horses in Norse mythology is under Category:Mythological horses. In a separate similar example Category:Mythological dogs has Category:Dogs in Hinduism and the page Dog in Chinese mythology. RaidRexx (talk) 22:41, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Category:Horses in Norse mythology only contains articles about horses (hence the plural -s in the category name), while Category:Horse in Chinese mythology does not. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:01, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The source article Horse in Chinese mythology is currently under discussion to be changed to "Horses in Chinese Mythology" which would bring it in line with Category:Horses in Norse mythology. RaidRexx (talk) 20:31, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep - the former is being used as a topic category (as Marcocapelle observes) and the latter is (correctly) a set subcategory. There is always a complete overlap between a category and its subcategory. Oculi (talk) 12:20, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Reverse merge I in principle would agree with Oculi, but there's not really enough content to warrant this layer. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 16:12, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * That is not an ideal solution, as it would remove the horses from Category:Mythological mammals. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:20, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Then add that to the target. Though Category:Mythological mammals appears to be a new creation this year. (They all apparently used to be under Category:Legendary mammals.) And honestly, that category's subcats should all switch to X in mythology too... - jc37 13:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  23:13, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I am in doubt between keeping per Oculi or merging as nominated by lack of sufficient content as observed by Pppery. Marcocapelle (talk) 23:20, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Reverse merge to Category:Horses in mythology, per User:Pppery. - jc37 13:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment - So following this tree up to the top, I find: Category:Legendary creatures by culture, which has: Category:Legendary creatures and Category:Mythology by culture as its parents. But then when I go to Category:Legendary creatures, it has as it's parent: Category:Mythological creatures, which has as its parent: Category:Legendary creatures. (and around we go.) - I think maybe this whole tree might need some sort of group nom combining myth and legend categories. - jc37 13:11, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've been trying to do some cleaning up in the mythology category and pages and keep running into similar issues. I reached out to WikiProject Mythology but didn't get any feed back. I've been struggling with the functional differences between Mythic/Mythical/Mythological/of Mythology/Legendary/Folklore/in Folklore/in Religion along with the nebulous Creature/Monster/Animal/Spirit. Despite reading the category guidelines multiple times, I've been struggling with it. This seemed like the place of active experts on categories. RaidRexx (talk) 19:52, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I think "X in myth and legend" might be the easiest path forward. Religion ones and spirits probably would need to be on a case-by-case basis and some could end up under both trees. Those splits by "vertebrates" and "mammals" etc, seem like WP:OR, though I understand the want for some subdivision. Also, be careful of fictional versions of these as well.  I hope that helps : )  - jc37 06:46, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * To the best of my understanding (but I may be wrong) the word "mythological" is mainly used when referring to extinguished religions while "legendary" has no connection to past or current religion. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:58, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * If that works, great. But in my past experience in previous discussions, it's murky at best, and example references often don't even try to make a distinction, and often use them pretty interchangeably, with only a semantic distinction, at best. - jc37 07:06, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  08:20, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: see also Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_November_29. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:22, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Reverse merge as more organized. Category:Horses in mythology is the broader category that fits with the related categories. Jontesta (talk) 21:01, 4 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Latin percussion
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 11%23Category:Latin percussion

American people of European descent by occupation
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 11%23American people of European descent by occupation

Medieval scientists
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 11%23Medieval scientists

Category:American men podcasters
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  13:30, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting american men podcasters
 * Nominator's rationale: Men/male doesn't meet WP:OCEGRS requirements. (The equivalent Category:British men podcasters was deleted on the same grounds in this discussion earlier this year.) Elemenopee9 (talk) 06:16, 3 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:39, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. If kept it should be renamed to per convention in . Oculi (talk) 16:57, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * below I have added the parent and sibling categories to the nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:09, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting Category:Men podcasters
 * Propose deleting Category:Australian men podcasters
 * Propose deleting Category:Canadian men podcasters
 * Propose deleting Category:Turkish men podcasters


 * Delete per nom. 🌊PacificDepthstalk 05:51, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete I'm not super familiar with policy surrounding categories, but all these categories do appear to be examples of WP:OCEGRS. TipsyElephant (talk) 00:42, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I have nominated the parallel men YouTubers category tree here. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:44, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete The inclusion of this gender in the category name is visually odd.-- Auric   talk  21:33, 10 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.