Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 8



Category:National Hockey League first-round draft picks
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 16%23Category:National Hockey League first-round draft picks

Category:Belarusian democracy movements

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:50, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Belarusian democracy movements to Category:Belarusian opposition
 * Nominator's rationale: The main article of this category is Belarusian opposition. This is the term given to the Belarusian democracy movement. Still, even if we keep "democracy movements" in the title, we should remove the plural since it's a single movement. Super   Ψ   Dro  16:40, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Speedy rename per WP:C2D. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:20, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Rename to match parent article -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:45, 14 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ngawi Regency geography stubs

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge category and template. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:54, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Ngawi Regency geography stubs to Category:East Java geography stubs
 * Nominator's rationale: Underpopulated stub category with no evidence of approval by WikiProject Stub sorting. As always, stub categories are not automatically warranted the moment there are just one or two things related to a topic -- the minimum entry fee for a stub category is 60 articles, not just two, and for that very reason stub categories have to be approved by the WikiProject and cannot just be created willy-nilly by just any editor at random. So the two articles here should be moved back to the stub category they were pulled out of in the process of creating this. I'm agnostic about whether the dedicated stub template needs to exist -- it would be harmless if it were filing its articles in the parent category, but it isn't entirely clear that it would be necessary for just two articles. So I leave the template's fate up to the discussion to decide, but the category needs at least 58 more articles before it's allowed to exist. Bearcat (talk) 15:43, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Manually merge and delete template too, the whole of Category:Ngawi Regency contains only five articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:23, 9 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:List of festivals in Bangladesh

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  22:33, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting list of festivals in bangladesh
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT for just one list. As always, "lists of X" categories are fine if there are multiple lists to file together there, but there's no navigational value in having a "lists of" category for just one list. The list was never removed from the appropriate parent categories in the process of adding this one, so no upmerging is necessary. Bearcat (talk) 14:30, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Support ditto. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:27, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per above -- Lenticel ( talk ) 00:45, 14 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:English languages

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  22:43, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:English languages to Category:Anglic languages
 * Procedural nomination, nominated at Speedy but not eligible there. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:53, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Nominator's rationale: To match the title of the eponymous section, "Anglic languages". "English languages" may cause confusion with the Macro-English languages, which refers to Early Modern English and its descendants. "Anglic languages" is similar, but it's a bit more broad, referring to Old English and its descendants. Alongside Macro-English, Anglic includes Fingallian, Yola, and Scots (as well as the mixed language Scottish Cant). ~Cherri of Arctic Circle System (talk) 01:41, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

But "Anglo-Frisian languages" is a larger group with a very different history (that adds Frisian languages, none of them being qualifiable as "English languages" or "Anglic languages" and without mutual understanding). Frisian languages share more Germanic (plus older Saxonic features, integrated later into English after the Norman invasion of British Isles and the creation of the Kingdom of England), than Anglic languages that have borrowed a lot from Norman and Medieval French (and some older vocabulary borrowed from the Vikings when they ruled Normandy in France before they were massively adopting Medieval French when they terminated the war with France and created their Duchy in relation with the Kingdom of France); Normans later conquered England and created its Kingdom, before being ruled out of Normandy and Aquitaine after very long successive wars between the two kingdoms; nothing similar occured with Frisian languages, which kept important linguistic relations with Northwestern Germanic states (that are today in Germany and the Benelux), as well with other Scandinavian states (notably via the Hanseatic League). The influence of Frisian on Anglic languages is indirect, older, and more limited: this came via the Saxonic invasion (before the Norman invasion), but Saxonic languages fused with preexisting Celtic languages that persist today only in Western England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, and Western Britanny (which came into that part of today's France after the Saxon invasion of most of England, but not because of the Norman invasion: Britanny was converted to use French language much later, centuries after the merging of the Britanny Duchy to the Kingdom of France, but Britanny successfully resisted for centuries to the Norman and later French invasions, but not to the latinisation by the church which also occured in England and other Celtic regions, but not so much in Frisian areas that kept their Germanic features). Today, Frisian languages are much closer with modern Dutch or German than with modern English (this means that the "Anglo-Frisian" grouping is more questionable (and relevant to old Medieval stages where it could be relevant only with Old English and its very modest latinisation by the Roman church). verdy_p (talk) 13:18, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Not opposing, but an alternative could be to merge to parent Category:Anglo-Frisian languages, since this only contains two subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:48, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * as previous editors of this category page, your opinions would be welcome. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:46, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree as long as this matches with Glottolog (with their support as well from the Linguist List). Note that this Anglic group includes Old English, as well as other Later Anglic languages, including Scots, Middle English, Irish Anglo-Norman, and Macro-English languages (English itself in all its regional variants, Pitcairn-Norfolk, and all English-based creoles or pidgins).
 * Tentative support It seems like a good idea, but the new name should be cited to sources which define the wider scope. A rename with no changes in the text would be confusing. Dimadick (talk) 13:33, 16 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Mayors of Grey
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 December 16%23Category:Mayors of Grey

Category:Judges educated at Eton College

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: upmerge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  22:36, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Judges educated at Eton College to Category:People educated at Eton College
 * Nominator's rationale: This has been discussed recently at 2022 August 15#Category:Judges educated at Eton College and was a no consensus keep. However the discussion was unduly influenced by user:Rathfelder and user:Bigwig7 who turned out to be the same person. Other similar categories created later by Rathfelder have all been upmerged: eg 2022 November 6#Category:Head Masters of Eton College educated at Eton,  2022 November 3#Category:Royalty educated at Eton College,  2022 October 26#Category:Racehorse trainers educated at Eton College, 2022 November 9#Category:British viceroys educated at Eton College and 2022 October 27#Harrow School. (A double upmerge does not seem necessary as Category:English judges say is diffused by century.) Oculi (talk) 01:43, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * There was also 2022 November 14#Eton College categories which unanimously upmerged Barristers, Bishops, British MPs, Clergy, Diplomats, Government ministers, Lord Lieutenants and Members of the British Royal Household educated at Eton College. Oculi (talk) 14:29, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Support as nominator. Oculi (talk) 01:43, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Thanks, Oculi! Johnbod (talk) 05:45, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:44, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Pinging participants of the previous discussion: @BD2412, @Peterkingiron, @JBchrch. — Qwerfjkl  talk  07:17, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I would still tend to keep as a logical division of the very large group of people educated at Eton College. I would also note that this particular grouping is unique in that, unlike racehorse trainers and royals, judges are ethically expected to recuse themselves from matters relating to parties where they have a conflict of interest, so a proud Eton College alum might be expected to recuse from hearing a lawsuit against Eton College. BD2412  T 13:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Being expected to recuse themselves for this reason is not a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:28, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Question: should this not also be upmerged to the other parent, Category:Judges educated at British public schools? I see no justification for removal from that hierarchy. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:39, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * That is another of Rathfelder's creations. Should we tag it for deletion right away? Marcocapelle (talk) 13:21, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * We should delete it, forthwith. I agree with Fayenatic that in the meantime it should be upmerged. Oculi (talk) 14:17, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree to upmerge pending deletion discussion. Johnbod (talk) 15:18, 16 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * I have nominated the other parent for deletion at 2022 December 16#Category:Judges educated at British public schools. Oculi (talk) 22:40, 16 December 2022 (UTC)