Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 July 4



Category:Musicals by Meredith Wilson

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy rename (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 05:25, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Musicals by Meredith Wilson to Category:Musicals by Meredith Willson
 * Nominator's rationale: Misspelling in category name (should be Willson instead of Wilson). Trivialist (talk) 23:08, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Speedy rename per C2A and C2D, see Meredith Willson. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 05:07, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Speedy clear typo. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:14, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Stade Bordelais (rugby) players

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:29, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Stade Bordelais (rugby) players to Category:Stade Bordelais players
 * Nominator's rationale: I originally created a WP:SPEEDY move for this but it was opposed. The corresponding page for the rugby union team is Stade Bordelais so I don't see why there should be disambiguation here per category naming rules. The football team certainly isn't the primary topic here. At worst this should be moved to Category:Stade Bordelais (rugby union) players anyway as this is the preferred disambiguation for rugby union only related topics. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 20:03, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Endorse (as creator) thanks, I wasn't sure so went for the opposite of the existing '(football)' cat, but I have since seen that the standard practice for other clubs with multiple sections (or 2 separate clubs with the same name) is to have no disambiguation for the rugby players when it is the more popular: examples include Stade Montois, Béziers Hérault off the top of my head from adding them to articles recently. I realise I wasn't following that rule myself with Bordelais, but wasn't sure if the rugby section was well enough known either due to its heydey being about a century ago and now merged into another club - however with RugbyFan having brought it up, I agree that it is more important than the football team which has never played higher than regional level as far as I know, so suffix should be removed. Crowsus (talk) 20:13, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment, for the earlier discussion at WP:CFDS, see Category talk:Stade Bordelais (rugby) players. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:12, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Support move to match article title. UnitedStatesian (talk) 14:23, 25 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:GlaxoSmithKline

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:30, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:GlaxoSmithKline to Category:GSK plc
 * Propose renaming Category:GlaxoSmithKline brands to Category:GSK plc brands
 * Propose renaming Category:Clinical trials sponsored by GlaxoSmithKline to Category:Clinical trials sponsored by GSK plc
 * Propose renaming Category:GlaxoSmithKline litigation to Category:GSK plc litigation
 * Propose renaming Category:GlaxoSmithKline people to Category:GSK plc people
 * Propose renaming Category:Chairmen of GlaxoSmithKline to Category:Chairmen of GSK plc
 * Nominator's rationale: On 16 May 2022, GlaxoSmithKline shortened its legal name to GSK plc, and the article was moved accordingly; page was kept at that title after RM discussion closed as no consensus. WP:CFDS was opposed. UnitedStatesian (talk) 19:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose I disagree that the article was moved accordingly. It is correct that a requested move at Talk:GSK plc was closed as no consensus, but my interpretation is that the move to GSK plc neither had nor would get consensus. "PLC" is a legal abbreviation which is not typically used in sources about the company. I am unaware of any Wikipedia rule or precedent that advises to use legal names to disambiguate company names. I would support a rename to GSK or GSK (company). "GSK plc" is not a WP:COMMONNAME that appears in cited sources.   Bluerasberry   (talk)  00:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Support I still wish there were a simpler way to note titles, but I am persuaded that the current process is understandable and I can think of no improvement to it.   Bluerasberry   (talk)  14:41, 6 July 2022 (UTC)


 * This is not the place to re-open a RM discussion for the article. The issue is, should the categories match the current article name, or remain, at least temporarily, at an out-of-date name for the company.  I would point you to Anglo American plc, Antofagasta plc, Assura plc, Berendsen plc, Carnival Corporation & plc, Clarkson plc, Cranswick plc, CRH plc, Currys plc, DCC plc, Dignity plc, Diploma plc and many others if you are looking for article titling precedent; and of course GSK plc does not appear in the sources cited in the article, because that name for the company is brand new. I assure you there will never be any source that uses GSK (company), though we have that as a redirect nonetheless. UnitedStatesian (talk) 05:01, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Note that disambiguators are not meant to be used in sources. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:15, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Which applies to both plc and (company). Which was my point. UnitedStatesian (talk) 05:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * But plc is not used as a disambiguator here. The format of GSK plc suggests that GSK plc is the common name while the format of GSK (company) suggests that GSK is the common name. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Of course plc is being used as a disambiguator, here as in the other examples: it's what we call a "natural" disambiguator. If there were no GSK (disambiguation), we would not need the plc and the article would not have it. But we do, and it does. UnitedStatesian (talk) 12:22, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * "This is not the place to re-open a RM discussion for the article" What do you think is a good way forward? Do we want another move discussion on the article main page? Those plc articles are an article titling precedent of which I am not aware, but I still have doubts that "plc" is part of any common name and see things as described above. Of course I would accept a move discussion that found consensus. My argument is not any deeper than "plc" not being a common name or a well understood part of a name, and I would say this during another move discussion. Alternatively, other ideas?   Bluerasberry   (talk)  12:45, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * @Bluerasberry I think the plc precedents (and many similar naturally disambiguated ones for just about every other corporate form, e.g. Apple Inc., Itera ASA, Heineken N.V., KOP Limited, etc., etc.) mean that you would need to open a broader discussion, such as at the village pump, that would apply consistently to these hundreds of articles. Or an approach I have used many times in the past is just move on to a different area of Wikipedia that would benefit from your good work.  Best, UnitedStatesian (talk) 13:55, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Wise! I think I will take that last suggestion. This issue has a process that is working and reasonable.  Bluerasberry   (talk)  14:41, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * @Bluerasberry I commend your choice, and look forward to when we work together down the road. Best, UnitedStatesian (talk) 16:38, 6 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Support -- WP does not like abbreviations, but in this case the current name is an abbreviation for a former name. Plc is an abbreviation for public limited company and serves to distinguish from GSK, which is a disambiguation page for this and other uses.  I note we have GSK (company), but it is a redirect to the main article.  Note the company is in the course of undertaking a major demerger, so that the categories will all need to be split in a few days hence.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:09, 7 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Union and Confederate politicians

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:31, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Union state governors to Category:Union (American Civil War) state governors
 * Propose renaming Category:Union political leaders to Category:Union (American Civil War) political leaders
 * Propose renaming Category:Confederate state governors to Category:Confederate States of America state governors
 * Propose renaming Category:Confederate political leaders to Category:Confederate States of America political leaders (over soft redirect).
 * Nominator's rationale: The page Union leads to a disambiguation page so it is better to be more precise. If I missed any similarly named pages, feel free to add them. User:Namiba 18:43, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I have added two more, tagging them now. UnitedStatesian (talk) 12:30, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Gonnym (talk) 16:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Support all as category creator of "X state governors" cats. My naming was hurriedly chosen and I appreciate nominator addressing this. BusterD (talk) 19:56, 12 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Murliganj

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy delete. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:13, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting murliganj
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:Overcategorization and specifically WP:SMALLCAT, this category contains a single article about a small town with fewer than 30k population - category has little or no potential for growth. Storchy (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete per C2F. –LaundryPizza<b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 05:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Swedish male record producers
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  17:32, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Swedish male record producers to Category:Swedish record producers
 * Nominator's rationale: Typical WP:Categorization/Ethnicity,_gender,_religion_and_sexuality fail - there's currently 117 articles in this category versus 9 in the equivalent female category, and there's no "specific relation" to gender in this occupation like there is for sport for example. Le Deluge (talk) 12:49, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It's not finished yet. Anyway see Category:Swedish male musicians, Category:Swedish men by occupation, Category:Male musicians by nationality etc. WP:Categorization/Ethnicity,_gender,_religion_and_sexuality seem to be fail - if tere is category for woman there should be also category for man and there is no thing such as "gender has a specific relation to the topic" - how? Category:Female heads of government - if there is no category for the males then it's ridicolous. It's like woman are worse or better. Eurohunter (talk) 15:34, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The default under WP:EGRS is that there should not be categories by gender. But there are exceptions. One kind is those sports where there are separate competitions for male and female (so there's categories for eg male/female footballers, but not for ice dancers). There are separate acting awards for male/females, and historically for singers (hence the male/female musician parent category) but that's now starting to change (eg Grammy Awards and Brit Awards) and never applied to "behind the scenes" categories like production. So music producers fail on that count.
 * The other main kind of exceptions to the non-gendered category rule is in those cases where it is notably rare for one gender to do something - like or . In those cases WP:EGRS allows a gendered category for the rare gender but not for the common one, as it's just not a particularly useful distinction to make if say 90% of them are one gender. Regardless of whether you have "finished", it is clearly not rare for record producers to be male, so you can't claim the rarity exemption.
 * So you appear to have no reason to claim an exemption to the rule that we don't have gendered categories. You should also note that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is no argument, and in general you should avoid WP:OVERCATEGORISATION, there's nothing wrong with a category containing 100s of articles. Le Deluge (talk) 16:58, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Support and thanks to nominator for the elaborate explanation of the guideline. Note in addition that "if there is category for woman there should be also category for man" is incorrect. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:20, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. GreenComputer (talk) 15:47, 19 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Shark Tale
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 05:37, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting shark tale
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT after removal of the redirects. (Oinkers42) (talk) 00:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete for Now Should only contain two current articles: Shark Tale and Shark Tale (video game). No objection to recreating later if it ever gets up to 5 actual articles defined by the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:17, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.