Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 September 23



Category:Philosophy and culture
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 21%23Category:Philosophy and culture

Category:Foo by country by century
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:Foo by country by century

Category:Kingdom of England emigrants
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:Kingdom of England emigrants

Category:Female–female vocal duets

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename.  bibliomaniac  1  5  00:18, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Female–female vocal duets to Category:Female vocal duet songs
 * Nominator's rationale: The terminology Female–female is superfluous. Surely "Female vocal duets" suffices the same and has the same meaning with fewer words? Equally, a duet could be performance or a song, so surely we need to quantify that by saying what type of medium it is? i.e. song or performance? Finally I am confused about some of the songs in the category - there's quite a fair few that aren't duets such as Stir It Up (Patti LaBelle song) and then others like Strangers (Halsey song) features another female artist but is a duet not when both artists have equal billing i.e. the song is by both artists equally? e.g. Rain on Me (Lady Gaga and Ariana Grande song)? >> Lil-unique1  (  talk  ) — 19:26, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: No particular consensus either way, so relisting to see if there are any responses to Fayenatic London's comment. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  16:57, 15 September 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  14:37, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Support when both singers on a track are female, we only need to use the adjective once. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 14:35, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Comments: According to Duet, it means a composition rather than a performance, so I don't think "songs" needs to be addded; and if there is support for adding it, this CFD should be relisted adding the parent Category:Vocal duets and the two siblings. Likewise, if there is support for reducing "Female–female" to "Female", this should be relisted to include Category:Male–male vocal duets. Disclosure: I populated most of this category from the parent Category:Vocal duets, following consensus to split the latter category, see . I only removed a very few cases, mainly where the article had previously listed a duet cover version and that list entry had been deleted as non-notable. As for the cases mentioned, "Stir it Up" has a section "Duet version", so I accepted that as clearly notable. "Strangers" says in the lead sentence and the infobox that it features a co-singer, so again I find this sufficiently WP:defining to categorise the song as a duet. I grant that I did leave various weaker cases in the categories, but I was seeking to split the category rather than to purge it of debatable cases. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:17, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * For the sake of discussion, as a procedural nomination, here is an alternative that does not disrupt the rest of the surrounding hierarchy. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:38, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Option B
 * Propose renaming Category:Female–female vocal duets to Category:Female vocal duets
 * Propose renaming Category:Male–male vocal duets to Category:Male vocal duets


 * option B per Fayenatic London and nom. Qwerfjkl  talk  10:35, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Just noting that duet is an ensemble type as well as a composition type (as well as a verb). From the article Duet: "The term duet is also used as a verb for the act of performing a musical duet, or colloquially as a noun to refer to the performers of a duet." (Compare to quartet, octet, etc.) So the category's inclusion criteria should probably be clarified in the name. I do think the "Male-male" and "Female-female" usage is probably superfluous, but not enough to care either way. - jc37 02:01, 28 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Russian and Soviet theatre directors

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Split to Category:Russian theatre directors and  Category:Soviet theatre directors. Thank you Rathfelder for making a start on this. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:09, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Russian and Soviet theatre directors to Category:Russian theatre directors
 * Nominator's rationale: This a subcategory of Category:Russian theatre directors, which seems to rather destroy the point of it. We only have one other Russian and Soviet occupational category - explorers, which seems to make more sense.  There is also Category:Soviet theatre directors, so perhaps this should be the parent of both, if we want to keep it. Rathfelder (talk) 10:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete. Since it's entirely possible for a person to be Russian but not Soviet (e.g. a Russian person who died before 1917, or was born after 1991), and entirely possible for a person to have been Soviet but not Russian (e.g. Kazakh, Georgian, Ukrainian), we have an established practice of treating "Russian X" and "Soviet X" as two separate category trees rather than conflating them together like this. That way, a person can be filed in both categories separately if they're both relevant, and just in one category but not the other if one is relevant while the other isn't. Bearcat (talk) 11:02, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  16:57, 15 September 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl  talk  14:36, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm happy with deleting and dispersing it. We also have Category:Russian and Soviet-German people which people might like to think about as the same arguments could be applied. Rathfelder (talk) 11:44, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge manually, probably most articles belong in both the Russian and the Soviet category, but that is not certain. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:25, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * I've started sorting them out. Rathfelder (talk) 22:23, 28 September 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Death care industry
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:Death care industry

Category:People of United Empire Loyalist descent
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:People of United Empire Loyalist descent

Category:Dams in Hokkaido
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:Dams in Hokkaido

Category:Cyberwarfare in China

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  10:40, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Cyberwarfare in China to Category:Cyberwarfare by China
 * Nominator's rationale: The main article is Cyberwarfare by China, and the category content is mainly about attacks on targets outside China. This was opposed at Speedy partly because sibling cats in Category:Cyberwarfare by country use "in", not "by". Perhaps "Cyberwarfare by country" is insufficiently specific and should be split between target and attacker countries, although Category:Advanced persistent threat seems to partly cover the latter already. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:21, 23 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Support per nom; "in" and "by" are potentially going to be two parallel category trees. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:29, 25 September 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Culture in the Republic of Ireland

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  10:40, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Culture in the Republic of Ireland to Category:Culture of the Republic of Ireland (over redirect)
 * Nominator's rationale: Most categories in use the demonym form "Fooian culture", but the form "Culture of Foo" is used for Category:Culture of Georgia (country) where disambiguation is required, and Category:Culture of Northern Ireland because the term "Northern Irish" is not used. There are a few others using "of" e.g.  and . On the other hand, there are a few with multi-word names that use the form "Foo culture" e.g. . At a more local level e.g. county or city, "in" is used, but this Republic of Ireland category is the only one using "in" for the national category. – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:48, 23 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Support for increased consistency. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:04, 24 September 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Saba culture
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:Saba culture

Category:People from Orenburg Oblast
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:People from Orenburg Oblast

Category:People from Tver Oblast
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:People from Tver Oblast

Category:Ethiopian Catholic churches
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:Ethiopian Catholic churches

Category:Ethiopian Catholic cathedrals
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:Ethiopian Catholic cathedrals

Category:Eritrean Catholic church buildings
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:Eritrean Catholic church buildings

Category:Eritrean Catholic cathedrals
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 1%23Category:Eritrean Catholic cathedrals

Category:Birding and birdwatching

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  10:57, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Birding and birdwatching to Category:Birdwatching
 * Nominator's rationale: It is necessary to rename it to match the main article, Birdwatching. However, it is unclear which term should be used in Wikipedia articles; the annual subcat is Category:Birding and ornithology by year, while Category:Birdwatching sites. I have not ruled out if it is the main article which should be renamed, or if I should bundle this with the entire tree to enforce consistency. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 02:37, 23 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Category:Birding and birdwatching to Category:Birdwatching – C2D: Is synonym. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 22:28, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, this is contentious enough to need a full discussion; the current name was approved at Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 6. – Fayenatic  L ondon 23:05, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Then I'd like to take this to full discussion. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 17:14, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * No objection from me; you'll have to refer to Birdwatching; and be aware of Talk:Birdwatching. If you go ahead, please consider also nominating Category:Birding and ornithology by year & subcats for renaming to "Birdwatching and ornithology". – Fayenatic  L ondon 12:57, 16 September 2022 (UTC)


 * 'Rename per nom to match article, with the subcats subsequently speedily moved if necessary for consistency. If consensus develops to move the article at some point, the cats can speedily follow. UnitedStatesian (talk) 02:50, 27 September 2022 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.