Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 11

 &lt; April 10 April 12 &gt;

Category:National Galleries of Scotland

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:National Galleries Scotland. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 14:46, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:National Galleries of Scotland to Category:National Galleries Scotland
 * Nominator's rationale: The organisation has recently rebranded and has dropped the 'of' Cnbrb (talk) 21:09, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support, and the subcats and  should go to WP:CFDS afterwards for speedy renaming. Ham II (talk) 07:45, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Per WP:C2D. While not a formal WP:RM, the article move was well discussed in the talk page. -RevelationDirect (talk) 23:58, 16 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Sex worker organizations based in

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename and merge. (closure by User:LaundryPizza03 Liz Read! Talk! 01:13, 25 April 2023 (UTC))


 * Merge Category:Sex worker organisations in Argentina to Category:Sex worker organizations
 * Merge Category:Sex worker organizations in Australia to Category:Sex worker organizations
 * Merge Category:Sex worker organisations in Brazil to Category:Sex worker organizations
 * Merge Category:Sex worker organizations in Cambodia to Category:Sex worker organizations
 * Merge Category:Sex worker organizations in Canada to Category:Sex worker organizations
 * Merge Category:Sex worker organizations in France to Category:Sex worker organizations
 * Merge Category:Sex worker organisations in Hong Kong to Category:Sex worker organizations
 * Rename Category:Sex worker organisations in India to Category:Sex worker organisations based in India
 * Merge Category:Sex worker organisations in New Zealand to Category:Sex worker organizations
 * Merge Category:Sex worker organizations in Nigeria to Category:Sex worker organizations
 * Merge Category:Sex worker organizations in Thailand to Category:Sex worker organizations
 * Rename Category:Sex worker organisations in the United Kingdom to Category:Sex worker organisations based in the United Kingdom
 * Rename Category:Sex worker organizations in the United States to Category:Sex worker organizations based in the United States (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 14:49, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organisations in Argentina to Category:Sex worker organisations based in Argentina
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organizations in Australia to Category:Sex worker organizations based in Australia
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organisations in Brazil to Category:Sex worker organisations based in Brazil
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organizations in Cambodia to Category:Sex worker organizations based in Cambodia
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organizations in Canada to Category:Sex worker organizations based in Canada
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organizations in France to Category:Sex worker organizations based in France
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organisations in Hong Kong to Category:Sex worker organisations based in Hong Kong
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organisations in India to Category:Sex worker organisations based in India
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organisations in New Zealand to Category:Sex worker organisations based in New Zealand
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organizations in Nigeria to Category:Sex worker organizations based in Nigeria
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organizations in Thailand to Category:Sex worker organizations based in Thailand
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organisations in the United Kingdom to Category:Sex worker organisations based in the United Kingdom
 * Propose renaming Category:Sex worker organizations in the United States to Category:Sex worker organizations based in the United States
 * Nominator's rationale: This is a follow-up to Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 14. Option A: rename all using "based in". Option B: rename India, UK and US; upmerge the rest to all parents in each case, as they contain only one or two articles. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:32, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support option B. Certainly change 'in' to 'based in' throughout. Oculi (talk) 20:51, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support option B. –Aidan721 (talk) 01:54, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support B per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:42, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support B per WP:SMALLCAT and precedent. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:40, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support B but the correct British (and Australian, Indian, Nigerian HK, NZ) spelling is organisation, not with a "z". Local usuage should always be preferred.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:25, 16 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Fires in Africa by year
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge and delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 14:52, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:1952 fires in Africa to Category:1952 fires and Category:20th-century fires in Africa
 * Propose merging Category:1954 fires in Africa to Category:1954 disasters in Africa and Category:1954 fires and Category:20th-century fires in Africa
 * Propose merging Category:1974 fires in Africa to Category:1974 fires and Category:20th-century fires in Africa
 * Propose merging Category:1987 fires in Africa to Category:1987 fires and Category:20th-century fires in Africa
 * Propose merging Category:1994 fires in Africa to Category:1994 disasters in Africa and Category:1994 fires and Category:20th-century fires in Africa
 * Propose deleting Category:1950s fires in Africa
 * Propose deleting Category:1970s fires in Africa
 * Propose deleting Category:1980s fires in Africa
 * Propose deleting Category:1990s fires in Africa
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, isolated single-article categories. Merging to a disasters parent is not always necessary, articles are sometimes already in a disasters by country category. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:29, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. Would creating a merge target of Category:20th-century fires in Africa be useful? Seems like it'd have enough articles to be populated. –Aidan721 (talk) 01:56, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Possibly, but as of now none of the continents has any century categories yet. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:44, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and created century categories for each continent (as well as UK and US). Many of the other continent decade categories can be nominated to be merged to century categories as well. –Aidan721 (talk) 14:12, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! I will add them as merge targets. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:24, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:31, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment It's a wonder that somebody has not proposed that they be called "African fires". Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:13, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Fires in Africa by year (2)
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 14:50, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:2000 fires in Africa to Category:2000s fires in Africa and Category:2000 fires
 * Propose merging Category:2001 fires in Africa to Category:2000s fires in Africa and Category:2001 fires
 * Propose merging Category:2002 fires in Africa to Category:2000s fires in Africa and Category:2002 fires
 * Propose merging Category:2005 fires in Africa to Category:2000s fires in Africa and Category:2005 fires
 * Propose merging Category:2009 fires in Africa to Category:2000s fires in Africa and Category:2009 fires
 * Propose merging Category:2010 fires in Africa to Category:2010 disasters in Africa, Category:2010s fires in Africa and Category:2010 fires
 * Propose merging Category:2011 fires in Africa to Category:2010s fires in Africa and Category:2011 fires
 * Propose merging Category:2013 fires in Africa to Category:2010s fires in Africa and Category:2013 fires
 * Propose merging Category:2015 fires in Africa to Category:2015 disasters in Africa, Category:2010s fires in Africa and Category:2015 fires
 * Propose merging Category:2017 fires in Africa to Category:2010s fires in Africa and Category:2017 fires
 * Propose merging Category:2018 fires in Africa to Category:2010s fires in Africa and Category:2018 fires; manually add Mbuba road tanker explosion to Category:2018 disasters in Africa
 * Propose merging Category:2019 fires in Africa to Category:2010s fires in Africa and Category:2019 fires
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, mostly 1- or 2-article categories. The difference with the nomination above is that the decade categories are proposed to be kept. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:28, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:31, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 01:56, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support


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Category:Fictional dolphins
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 18%23Category:Fictional dolphins

Category:G13 eligible AfC submissions
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 12%23Category:G13 eligible AfC submissions

Category:Chairmen of the International Cricket Council
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  19:25, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting chairmen of the international cricket council
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT and WP:NONDEFINING. This is an honorary roles, of which 4 people have ever held the role and only 2 have an article. Both are primarily known for other things, and this role is just a footnote in their career, not a defining categorisation <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 14:33, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete Per nom. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:05, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * DElete -- Mian article has an appropriate list. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:26, 16 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Presidents of the Cricket Association of Bengal
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  19:24, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting presidents of the cricket association of bengal
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NOTDEFINING, almost all of the 7 people listed are notable for other roles, and the time in this office was of minimal significance in comparison to their more notable achievements <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 14:30, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete Per nom. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:06, 12 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Veterinarians from Asia
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Same reasons as . (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  19:24, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Veterinarians from Asia to Category:Asian veterinarians
 * Nominator's rationale: Per the rest of Category:Asian people by occupation --Ferien (talk) 11:48, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support per nom. This is a speedy: WP:C2C. Oculi (talk) 15:37, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * , oops, I forgot about the speedy renaming system here, apologies. If it's eligible for speedy renaming, does this nomination get closed early and moved to the speedy page, or does it just stay here until someone decides to close it? (I'm not a regular on CfD..) --Ferien (talk) 16:49, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * As this is now opposed speedy would delay matters. Oculi (talk) 19:06, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose There is no such person as an "Asian". No such nationality exists. It is a geographic region so "from" is appropriate. The entire Category:Asian people by occupation tree should be revisited. Only one continent uses the correct form: Category:People from Antarctica. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:11, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No claim is made that 'Asian' is a nationality. We have the article Asian people, and the category, so this should be a speedy. Oculi (talk) 19:06, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No claim is being made? What then? That vegetarinism is a characteristic that is essential to or inherent to the continent? Like I said, and per my comments below, the whole "people from continent X" tree sdtructure needs to be revisited. But that's a huge body of work. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:51, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Speedy Rename per WP:C2C, per the other subcategories of Category:Asian people by occupation. I'm open minded about Laurel Lodged's broader concern about this tree in a future nomination. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:53, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Veterinarians from Africa
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Same reasons as . (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  19:23, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Veterinarians from Africa to Category:African veterinarians
 * Nominator's rationale: Per the rest of Category:African people by occupation --Ferien (talk) 11:47, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I also suggest nominating Category:Lawyers from Africa--User:Namiba 11:49, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Nominated the lawyers cat for speedy renaming. --Ferien (talk) 16:49, 12 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support - per nom. Oculi (talk) 15:34, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose There is no such person as an "African". No such nationality exists. It is a geographic region so "from" is appropriate. The entire Category:African people by occupation tree should be revisited. Only one continent uses the correct form: Category:People from Antarctica. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:10, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * 'African' adjective: of, relating to, or characteristic of the continent of Africa or its people. Oculi (talk) 19:17, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Exactly - thanks for making my argument. A person being a vegetarian might be a defining thing for that person; it is not a defining thing for the continent. There is nothing about vegetarianism that is inherent to the continent of Africa. The "Africaness" of vegetarianism is not a thing. Africa is not noted as being a continent of vegetarians. On the other hand, the fact that there are vegetarians in the continent or from the continent, is definitely a useful navigational tool. Laurel Lodged (talk)
 * "vegetarians " → "Veterinarians". Funny. Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:07, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Disclosure - to illustrate with a concrete example how "African People" is different to "People from Africa", I have WP:BOLDly created Category:People from Africa. I have populated it with sub-categories of people who are definitely from Africa as opposed to people just transiting Africa or who briefly worked in Africa such as Christian missionaries or bishops. I have parented these sub-categories to Category:People of Africa which I have also boldly created to illustrate the point of what a correct scheme would look like. This follows the form of Category:People from Antarctica (which I had no part in creating). Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:53, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename Per WP:C2C. I'm open minded about Laurel Lodged's broader concern about this tree, in a potential future nominations. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:55, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Veterinarians from South America
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename to match the rest of the category tree. The whole tree can be discussed separately. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  19:22, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Veterinarians from South America to Category:South American veterinarians
 * Nominator's rationale: Per the rest of Category:South American people by occupation --Ferien (talk) 11:47, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support - per nom. Oculi (talk) 18:43, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose There is no such person as a "South American". No such nationality exists. It is a geographic region so "from" is appropriate. Only one continent uses the correct form: Category:People from Antarctica. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:09, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename Per WP:C2C. I'm open minded about Laurel Lodged's broader concerns; we can discuss those in a future nomination of the whole tree. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:56, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Notable residents of Montana
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  19:20, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting notable residents of montana
 * Nominator's rationale: Subjective and selective criteria for inclusion. All articles are already in the appropriate subcategories so there is no need to merge. User:Namiba 11:32, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Upmerge to people from Montana A topic has to be notable to be a WP article in the first place. The articles included are a random smattering and omit many significant individuals . If other states have this category, they all should be similarly upmerged. Montanabw (talk) 14:02, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Upmerging would result in unnecessary overlap. As I wrote above, all articles in this category are already appropriately subcategorized.--User:Namiba 14:22, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. No reason to merge. –Aidan721 (talk) 18:37, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:42, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, WP:SUBJECTIVECAT and WP:ARBITRARYCAT. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:58, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. If we categorize people by the places they passed through, there is no end to it. Place Clichy (talk) 08:26, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge back to Category:People from Montana. For WP purposes only notable people have articles.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:28, 16 April 2023 (UTC)


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Category:Mountains and hills of Aruba
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename and reparent. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  19:19, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Mountains and hills of Aruba to Category:Hills of Aruba
 * Nominator's rationale: These geological formations, which measure 165 and 188 meters respectively, are monumental in their significance but mere hills in comparison to their size. Therefore, referring to them as "mountains" in the category could be misleading. Kallmemel (talk) 08:25, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * 'Lean oppose but not real strong feelings. If all other categories for similar landforms are titled “Mountains and hills” then renaming just this one is a poor idea.  The distinctinction  between a “mountain” and a “hill” is somewhat subjective and arbitrary, and absent a uniform definition, like 1000 feet pr something, a category gets into opinion. If there’s a standard (thinking of the film The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Mountain), then let’s follow it. But if we have general “Mountains and hills” categories in other places, best to stay consistent.  Montanabw (talk) 14:10, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * If the distinction between "mountain" and "hill" is somewhat subjective, (1) why have two distinct items for hill (Q54050) and mountain (Q8502). (2) there are categories with only hills. are those categories poor idea? Category:Hills of China, Category:Hills of Germany, Category:Hills of California, Category:Hills of the Philippines, Category:Hills of Berlin, Category:Hills of Australia, Category:Hills of Cheshire. Should these categories be changed to "Mountains and Hills of {place}"? Kallmemel (talk) 14:28, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support and reparent to the tree (eg Category:Hills of the Caribbean, as distinct from Category:Mountains of the Caribbean) as these are hills under any definition. There are quite a few in this tree but no . Oculi (talk) 14:33, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Note - the category was not tagged; I have remedied this. Oculi (talk) 15:23, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support and reparent per Oculi. –Aidan721 (talk) 18:39, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename, hills only are occurring more often and is certainly applicable to this case. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:45, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hong Kong people of Belgian descent
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  19:17, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting hong kong people of belgian descent
 * Nominator's rationale: As per WP:SMALLCAT. Only 1 entry and a rare ethnic category. LibStar (talk) 04:14, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. And if I'm not mistaken, "Hong Kong people" is supposed to mean he's a Hong Kong national, yes? Because the article seems to say the opposite which make that categorization inaccurate and the already present Category:Belgian people of Hong Kong descent the appropriate choice. Said article is also questionable regarding notability but my lack of knowledge of WP:NCYCLING makes it difficult to be certain. QuietHere (talk &#124; contributions) 04:24, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Possibly he acquired Hong Kong nationality when starting racing so it may not be wholly inaccurate. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:13, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. WP:SMALLCAT applies. Oculi (talk) 18:41, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


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Category:Slavic people by nationality
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  19:16, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting slavic people by nationality
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING, WP:OCEGRS. This category doesn't fit any category tree. The point of Category:people by nationality is grouping individuals as nationals (citizens/subjects) of a particular state, regardless of their other traits. Their native language is not relevant, let alone which language family their native language belongs to. This is different from Category:Slavic people by ethnicity, which is a legitimate category. See also precedents such as Germanic people by occupation. (I note that this category was nominated for a merger a few months ago; that has nothing to do with the current nom). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:01, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete, this convolutes nationality with language. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:21, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 08:28, 15 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Russian invasion of Ukraine by country
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 * The result of the discussion was: speedy rename. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  19:15, 18 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Propose renaming:Category:Russian invasion of Ukraine by country to Category:Foreign involvement in the Russian invasion of Ukraine
 * Nominators Rational: Renaming will make the category more specific as there will be a main page for this category which is Foreign involvement in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cactinites (talk • contribs)


 * Rename, even without the existence of the article it is a more natural name. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:50, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:38, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename Per WP:C2D. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:57, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.