Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 21

 &lt; April 20 April 22 &gt;

Category:Russian minority interests parties

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  22:59, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Russian minority interests parties to Category:Russian diaspora political parties
 * Nominator's rationale: duplicate. Note that the category was placed in and that the 7 articles in it are already in children of the target category. Place Clichy (talk) 21:46, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge This also makes it clearer that this is not about minority interest parties within Russia. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:04, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Also fine with Delete. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:29, 26 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Just delete, a merge is not meaningful since the articles are already in children of the target category. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:07, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Just delete per Marco. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:44, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge or delete. As a bonus, we get rid of a category with a confusing name. Pichpich (talk) 17:46, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:David Bar-Hayim

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:18, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting david bar-hayim
 * Nominator's rationale: Eponymous category for a person without the volume of spinoff content needed to warrant an eponymous category. As always, everybody who has a Wikipedia article does not automatically get their own dedicated category as a matter of course -- it's useful if there are a lot of related articles that need categorization for their relationship to the eponym, but not if there are only a couple. But there are only two articles here, the eponym and one organization he's associated with, and that's not enough. Bearcat (talk) 20:00, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:EPONCAT. Place Clichy (talk) 02:38, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Pichpich (talk) 17:43, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Britain's Got Talent golden buzzer acts

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:19, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting britain's got talent golden buzzer acts
 * Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization for a non-defining characteristic. We categorize noteworthy contestants on Got Talent shows if they have articles to categorize, and we obviously categorize the winners, but we have no established history of categorizing people for whether they got the golden buzzer or not — and since all the golden buzzer actually does is guarantee a spot in the next round of the competition, but comes with no prize and doesn't guarantee victory or permanent notability in and of itself, it hardly constitutes a defining characteristic of its recipients' careers. Bearcat (talk) 19:55, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete The articles are already categorized elsewhere in the BGT tree; this stage in the contest is not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:27, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete not a defining or notable characteristic. – Meena • 18:57, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-defining. Pichpich (talk) 17:44, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Vanessa Merrell

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:20, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting vanessa merrell
 * Nominator's rationale: Eponymous category for a person without a sufficient volume of spinoff content to warrant an eponymous category. As always, every person who exists does not automatically get one of these just to contain her WP:BLP itself -- there have to be several other related articles that would need categorization for their relationship to Vanessa Merrell, but there's no evidence of that. Bearcat (talk) 19:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:EPONCAT. Place Clichy (talk) 02:37, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not even close to meeting the requirements for an eponymous category. Pichpich (talk) 17:34, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Brittany

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: downmerge. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:20, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose downmerging Category:Rulers of Brittany to Category:Monarchs of Brittany
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT (1 C, 0 P). See recent CfM. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:31, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Downmerge, redundant category layer. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:18, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hellenistic rulers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Hellenistic-era monarchs per WP:BARTENDER. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:05, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Hellenistic rulers to Category:Hellenistic monarchs
 * Alt rename Category:Hellenistic rulers to Category:Hellenistic-era monarchs
 * Nominator's rationale: All items and children are already about 'kings', 'monarchs' or 'pharaohs'. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:15, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Alt rename rationale: per WP:C2C parent Category:Hellenistic-era people, two siblings Category:Hellenistic-era historians and Category:Hellenistic-era philosophers (note: 5 other siblings don't have the "-era" suffix). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:35, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename per nom. I wonder if rulers/monarchs should be classified as Hellenistic at all, but that is a different discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:48, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Do tell. E.g. the parent is Category:Hellenistic-era people, two siblings are Category:Hellenistic-era historians and Category:Hellenistic-era philosophers. Might that be better? "Hellenistic-era"? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:35, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Hellenistic-era people to Category:Hellenistic period people — Preceding unsigned comment added by William Allen Simpson (talk • contribs)
 * Procedural oppose This is not your nomination, William. I think it's up to nom (me in this case) to add this as an Alt or addition or something, or that you should nominate this separately in your own CfR. (I would still oppose it on grammatical and WP:COMMONNAME grounds, but that's the next step). Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:25, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * (PS: Per WP:C2B the formulation should be Fooian-era people, People of the Fooian era, People of the Fooian period, or Barian people by period. There is no Fooian period people or Fooian-period people.) Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:43, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:16, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Hellenistic period monarchs. As was previously discussed, the ultimate parentage is Category:Former countries by period ==>> Category:History of Greek Antiquity by period ==>> Category:Hellenistic period ==>> Category:Hellenistic-era people. The latter should be renamed as well (nomination added).
 * -period or -era is more accurate for sure. However, the wonder I have is more about whether we should categorize monarchs by this kind of periodization at all. We wouldn't want to have an analogous Category:Modern monarchs, would we? Marcocapelle (talk) 18:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, there is some overlap with Category:Ancient Greek rulers, which ultimately goes back to Category:Ancient Greece (and its parent Category:Classical antiquity), as does Category:Hellenistic rulers. I don't know about Category:Modern monarchs, but wouldn't mind having Category:Medieval monarchs and Category:Ancient monarchs, since we've already got Category:Medieval rulers, Category:Ancient rulers, Category:Medieval kings, Category:Ancient kings etc. (Although ideally, I want to diffuse/rename all "rulers" cats of course). Category:Hellenistic-era monarchs would be a descendant of Category:Ancient monarchs, just like Category:Ancient kings. I wouldn't mind at all. (I wouldn't make Category:Ancient Greek monarchs a parent of Category:Hellenistic-era monarchs because e.g. Category:Greco-Bactrian kings had little to do with the region of "Ancient Greece" in Southeastern Europe and Asia Minor, but they're still in the Ancient Greece tree, so.... I don't know). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:19, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename to Alt for the moment but start a wider deletion discussion on Hellenistic-era. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:34, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Balance so far:
 * Hellenistic-era monarchs: 3 (Laurel, Marco primary, myself primary)
 * Hellenistic period monarchs 2 (William, Marco primary)
 * Hellenistic monarchs 2 (Marco secondary, myself secondary)
 * 2 (Laurel, Marco). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:16, 29 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Women rulers in Asia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename and re-parent. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:21, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Women rulers in Asia to Category:Women monarchs in Asia
 * * Re-parenting from Category:Asian rulers to Category:Asian monarchs
 * * Re-parenting from Category:Women rulers to Category:Women monarchs
 * Nominator's rationale: All subcategories are about empresses regnant or queens regnant. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:07, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename and re-parent per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Women rulers in Japan

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:22, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose upmerging Category:Women rulers in Japan to Category:Japanese monarchs, Category:Women rulers in Asia, Category:Japanese women by occupation, Category:History of women in Japan
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT and redundant layer. All items in it were already in childcats, so I removed them. Only doubt was whether List of female castellans in Japan could be considered "rulers"; I created Category:Female castellans in Japan for them and re-parented them to Category:Japanese nobility. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:01, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support in principle, redundant category layer, but the first merge target is not relevant (the two subcategories are in Category:Japanese emperors and Category:Japanese monarchs respectively). Marcocapelle (talk) 18:45, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah I missed that, well-spotted. I'll strike that one. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:25, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Inventors from France

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:24, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Inventors from France to Category:French inventors
 * Nominator's rationale: duiplicate and empty category of Category:French inventors Robby (talk) 15:54, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 16:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Reverse merge per precedent. Delete per William. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:02, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete — the category has only a user sandbox. DO NOT REVERSE MERGE. The parents and children are "French fooers", per guideline for "Fooian fooers".
 * Delete per WA Simpson. I removed all category assignments from User:Rbmn/sandbox. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:53, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Marcocapelle, how many orphaned categories did this editor add to their sandbox? Because I'm tagging dozens of categories that they created solely for their sandbox. This category is empty so there is nothing to Merge. Liz Read! Talk! 04:07, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * there were dozens indeed; I did not realize that none of them was a real category. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:47, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Marcocapelle, I actually did a search for "Category" on the page and found that they had added 54 categories to this user sandbox. There is also a COI issue involved that they haven't addressed yet. Liz Read! Talk! 03:37, 24 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per William Allen Simpson. Pichpich (talk) 17:39, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Copán

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: alt rename. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:26, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Rulers of Copán to Category:Kings of Copán
 * Propose renaming Category:Rulers of Palenque to Category:Kings of Palenque, Alt Category:Monarchs of Palenque
 * Propose renaming Category:Rulers of Tikal to Category:Kings of Tikal, Alt Category:Monarchs of Tikal
 * Nominator's rationale: See precedents Category:Rulers of Iximche etc.
 * WP:C2D List of kings of Copán, based on literature and individual bios calling them "kings", and the fact that it is in Category:Lists of monarchs.
 * WP:C2B main article Palenque refers to "king" 30x, "rulers" 2x. Note: 2 were female, so gender-neutral alternative Category:Monarchs of Palenque also option.
 * WP:C2B main article Tikal refers to "king(dom)" 47x, "rulers" 17x. Note: 1 may have been female, so gender-neutral alternative Category:Monarchs of Tikal also option. Note: Rulers of Tikal is an WP:UNSOURCED WP:REDUNDANTFORK of Maya rulers (better, more detailed list with some souces), they should be merged.
 * Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:18, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support, let's take "monarchs" for the latter two, in order to be on the safe side. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:56, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Alt monarchs.


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional Turkic people

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:27, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting fictional turkic people
 * Nominator's rationale: All items in this category are also already in its child Category:Fictional Turkish people. For the subcategories, the fact that each of them just so happens to speak a native language belonging to the Turkic languages family (presumably, which is incorrect, because they are all in the Category:Fictional people by country tree, so native language is mixed up with country) is WP:NONDEFINING, and has no significant bearing on their career (WP:OCEGRS). See also the "Category:Turkic rulers" CfD and other recent CfDs, as well as Articles for deletion/List of Turkic scholars. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:22, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:57, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and precedent. Even recognizing that fictional characters are more often defined by ethnic stereotypes that real-life people are, language families are not an appropriate way to do that. Place Clichy (talk) 02:35, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Medieval Turkic geographers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:28, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting medieval turkic geographers
 * Propose deleting medieval turkic mathematicians
 * Propose deleting turkic sufi religious leaders
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT, WP:NONDEFINING, see also Articles for deletion/List of Turkic scholars. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:04, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Note to admins Category:Medieval Turkic astronomers was closed as delete 9 days ago, but still hasn't been deleted. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:07, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * pinging the closer of the discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:13, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:13, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and precedent. Language families are not an appropriate way to categorize individuals. Place Clichy (talk) 02:32, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Obscures the distinction between Turkic peoples and Turkish people. –Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 06:41, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:The Real Housewives cast members
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:40, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting the real housewives cast members
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT -- wooden superman  14:44, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:16, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep The problem with WP:PERFCAT is when actors have a lot of roles that would create category clutter but half these people are known for little else and this association pretty consistently is in the intro the articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:30, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I checked the articles starting A to F and nearly all of them are not known for little else. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:17, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Here are the A-F articles where I think we wouldn't have an article if not for the show: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. That's not to say the articles don't cover what schools attended, careers, and families just that the show is defining, as reflected in the intros.
 * Taylor Armstrong mentions being an internet meme and but it's an image from the show and Luann de Lesseps mentions being a singer but the poorly received song was streamed by Bravo TV network. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:02, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:The Amazing Race (American TV series) contestants
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:41, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting the amazing race (american tv series) contestants
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT -- wooden superman  14:43, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:19, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep Click through the articles and this pretty consistently is in the intro. While traditional actors get many roles which would lead to category clutter, most of these people wouldn't have articles if they hadn't been on this show. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:33, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I checked the articles starting with A to C and some of them are known for little else indeed. But many are not. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep. The above criteria doesn't appear to fit with reality tv shows. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 14:20, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Celebrities appearing on television shows are definitely performances and undoubtedly fall foul of WP:PERFCAT. -- wooden  superman  14:08, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * If they are already celebrities, I would agree. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:31, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Checking a few at random, people like Mike White, Tyler Oakley and Jerry Eaves already had notable careers before appearing on this show, therefore an appearance on this specific show is WP:NONDEFINING.  The more general  is much more appropriate than this clear WP:PERFCAT.  -- wooden  superman  12:51, 26 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Celtic women
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename and purge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:03, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Celtic women to Category:Ancient Celtic women
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2D main article Ancient Celtic women. This main article describes the scope under Ancient Celtic women as from c. 800 BC at the earliest until about the fifth century AD. That means all women born after 500 CE need to be purged from this category. That probably means all subcategories except Category:Celtic women warriors, Category:4th-century Irish women, Category:5th-century Irish women, and Category:5th-century Welsh women. The rest aren't "Ancient". Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:13, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename and purge per nom. The category combines women who are geographically very dispersed (up to Galatia in Anatolia), should we perhaps create a subCategory:Celtic women in Galatia? Marcocapelle (talk) 19:32, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think geography is relevant in this case. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:45, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose until a suitable home can be found for those sub-cats that you propose to purge. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:38, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * They already have. Category:Women of medieval Wales, Category:Women of medieval Scotland, Category:Women of medieval Ireland. The rest isn't categorisable by period (at least, almost all Category:Breton women would be medieval, it's not a useful way of further subcategorising the by century subcats). Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:45, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * They would lose their "Celtic" parent. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:59, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Laurel Lodged That's the goal. After 500 CE, it would be inappropriate to label people 'Celtic' anymore. I began by defining the scope:
 * Ancient Celtic women: from c. 800 BC at the earliest until about the fifth century AD.
 * See also Celts: For at least 1,000 years the name Celt was not used at all, and nobody called themselves Celts or 'Celtic, until from about 1700
 * The farthest you could stretch that is including the 6th century CE, but that's it. After that, people haven't been "Celtic" for over a thousand years, and only then you get Celts (modern). Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:55, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * So Category:4th-century Irish women should still be categorised as Celtic? Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:05, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:48, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Is there a Celtic woman who is not an ancient Celtic woman? In other words, from what does "ancient" need to be disambiuated? Is there a "modern Celtic women" category? If not, then this nomination seems to be a solution in search of a problem. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:48, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * As nom said, this is a case of WP:C2D. Besides it prevents some editors to think that modern people in e.g. Wales belong here too. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:53, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Laurel has a point, which I also made when suggesting that "historical" in "historical Germanic peoples" is redundant, as Germanic peoples are defined in the opening sentence as "historical" already. On the other hand, Marcocapelle is correct that "Ancient Celtic" (or "Historical Germanic") is used to prevent some editors from thinking that it is appropriate to categorise modern people as such. There is a reason why the article Celts (modern) has "(modern)" in its title. The modern concept and its applicability to modern people(s) are contested. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:32, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename and purge insofar as Celt is a suitable categorization, only the ancient Celts qualify, and the rename would prevent misapplication of the category to others. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  01:08, 7 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Former Muslim countries in Europe
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 27%23Category:Former Muslim countries in Europe

Category:Witnesses to John Brown's execution
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:29, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting witnesses to john brown's execution
 * Nominator's rationale: A non-defining characteristic. Generally, people are not defined by having witnessed an event. User:Namiba 12:55, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm the one who created this category. The point is not that this was a defining characteristic of the individuals, but that this was a foretaste of the Civil War. It was the last event before the Civil War broke out; in fact, the Governor was afraid it was starting right then (1859). I discussed this at Virginia v. John Brown. deisenbe (talk) 13:18, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That would suggest that a list, rather than a category, would a better approach here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:35, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support it makes a good list but a bad category. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:30, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, categories are based on defining characteristics only. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:37, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete really per WP:PERFCAT. This moment in their lives is generally treated as non-defining in the articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:34, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:PERFCAT. Place Clichy (talk) 02:31, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


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Category:Grammarians by nationality
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 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 20:42, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Grammarians by nationality to Category:Grammarians by country
 * Nominator's rationale: Apart from the below exceptions, all other entries in this category are "by state/country", not "by nationality". Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:00, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose - this is part of Category:Social scientists by nationality and is 'by nationality'. Oculi (talk) 11:56, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Query how is it "by nationality" when all members, apart from the exceptions noted, are in the form "Grammarians from Foo"? Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:01, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Because in this case the nationality category "French linguists" (say) has been named to avoid confusion with 'Linguists in the French language' (who might be Belgian for instance). In other words the category is for 'French nationals who are linguists'. Much as Georgian people was renamed via 2009 March 10#Category:Georgian people to Category:People from Georgia (country); it remains a nationality category, not a 'by country' category. Oculi (talk) 12:53, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Where do you put the "French linguists" and the "Belgian linguists" who happen to live and work in Germany? Are they not Linguists from Germany? Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:23, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * What about Aditi Lahiri? Is she an Indian linguist or a linguist from the United Kingdom or both? Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:29, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Aditi Lahiri appears to be already in appropriate nationality categories. There is no need to categorise a linguist by location; we have which is as yet mercifully not subcatted by occupation (other than sportspeople). Oculi (talk) 14:37, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * But if, as you suggest, that Category:Linguists from the United Kingdom is actually a "by nationality" category, then she is in the British and the Indian linguist trees. How can this be correct? Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:16, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I did not check the article, but it is not unheard of that people have several nationalities. Especially scholars that teach in a country where they were not born. And imho a scholar native from Bar who works at the National University of Foo deserves to be categorized as both a scholar from Bar and a scholar from Foo, regardless of whether they hold a Fooian passport or not. Place Clichy (talk) 02:30, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep as is. As explained above, for linguists and grammarians it is useful to avoid the ambiguity between their country and their language of studies. There are American and British scholars of the French language, not just Belgian and Swiss. Place Clichy (talk) 02:30, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree that it useful to avoid the ambiguity that you mention, hence my nomination. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:42, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Grammarians
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 7%23Grammarians

Category:Western European people
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:30, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting western european people
 * Propose deleting central european people
 * Propose deleting southern european people
 * Propose deleting eastern european people
 * Nominator's rationale: Follow-up of recently deleted "Category:Northern European people" per WP:NONDEFINING and WP:ARBITRARYCAT. Relevant comments also applying to this nomination included:
 * There isn't even an agreed definition of what "Northern Europe" even is (by nom/myself);
 * people in these categories have nothing in common with each other (by Marcocapelle); and
 * That's not a useful way to group national people categories. The same objection also applies to Category:Eastern European people, Category:Southern European people, Category:Western European people and Category:Central European people, which BTW largely overlap with each other. There is no standard definition of where East/North/West/South/Central Europe starts and ends, making these concepts non-defining. (by Place Clichy).


 * Hence this follow-up nomination. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:54, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support No definition is possible. Boundaries are mutable. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:09, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:03, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and precedent. Too vague to be defining. Place Clichy (talk) 02:22, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. --Nagsb (talk) 18:34, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Terence Hill and Bud Spencer
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 * The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:42, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting terence hill and bud spencer
 * Nominator's rationale: Fails WP:PERFCAT -- wooden superman  09:43, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete I don't know if this is technically WP:PERFCAT since it groups the performance by the performers, not the other way around. But it's not defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:39, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. I don't see anything in WP:PERFCAT that justifies the deletion of this category. This duo is not just 2 actors, but an established act that was developed over a large career and series of films. If this was Hollywood it would probably be called a franchise, and WP:PERFCAT certainly does not forbid categories about film franchises. There are plenty of such valid categories e.g. in Category:Buddy films, such as which is similar in many ways. Place Clichy (talk) 02:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I had missed the Terence Hill and Bud Spencer joint article. I'll defer to other editors here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 04:06, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Nations at the Special Olympics World Summer Games
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename. Unopposed, NPASR. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:09, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Nations at the Special Olympics World Summer Games to Category:Nations at the Special Olympics World Games
 * Nominator's rationale: Remove "Summer" per other multi-sport event categories as winter is/can be included. Pelmeen10 (talk) 06:18, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


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Category:Rulers of Florence
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Heads of state of Florence. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 20:37, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Rulers of Florence to Category:Heads of state of Florence
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT (see the Rulers CfM for background). Because Florence was long known as the Republic of Florence (1115–1569), even though it also had a de facto de' Medici dynasty in the 1434–1569 period (known as "Lord of Florence" 1434–1494 and 1498–1532, and as "Duke of Florence" 1532–1569) functioning as a hereditary head of state, interrupted by a fiercely strictly non-hereditary republican period the absence of the de Medici' in 1494–1498 (when the Gonfaloniere of Justice served as both head of government (the Signoria of Florence) and head of state), the head of state of Florence during this entire period of time should simply be called that: "head of state of Florence". "rulers" implies sovereign hereditary monarchs, which Girolamo Savonarola and Piero Soderini were not. (Alternatively, we could create a separate Category:Gonfalonieri of Justice which we would populate with them and other gonfalonieri of justice of Florence).

William Allen Simpson (talk) 14:41, 19 April 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:58, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I propose to (re)move subcats Category:Grand Dukes of Tuscany and Category:Grand Duchesses of Tuscany to Category:Grand Duchy of Tuscany people, and I would do the same with Category:Royal houses of the Grand Duchy of Tuscany (but that itself is something of an WP:ARBITRARYCAT), because the "Republic of Florence" (a "republic with a duke" since 1532) was no longer a sovereign state by 1569; the Grand Duchy of Tuscany was its successor state, and is treated as such in our category tree. Similarly, Category:Margraves of Tuscany is not in Category:Rulers of Florence either, even though the Margraves of Tuscany "ruled" over Florence at the time as well, so everything "Tuscan" can be removed.
 * I propose to remove parents Category:Italian monarchs and Category:European rulers, because Savonarola and Soderini were not sovereign hereditary monarchs, but republican non-hereditary heads of government also functioning as heads of state.
 * I propose to remove List of mayors of Florence, because they weren't (and aren't) heads of state.
 * (On a sidenote, I suggest a separate discussion should be had on what to do with List of rulers of Tuscany. I think it's too complicated to be handled here, but I'm leaning towards a split, because there is a disconnect between the Margravate of Tuscany and the Republic of Florence of several centuries, and they are essentially two different states. From Republic of Florence to Grand Duchy of Tuscany, even though different states, there was at least arguably dynastic continuity). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:25, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename and reorganize per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:08, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep -- Rulers is an appropriately vague term to cover various titles. We should stop trying to minutely categorise people by status when dealing with relatively high level categories that will generally be containers.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:49, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Precedents of the past several months have shown the community is thinking otherwise. In the overwhelming majority of cases, it has been decided to move away from "rulers" to something clearer and more defining on a case-by-case basis. I also don't see you objecting to anything related to this specific CfR. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:43, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per detailed nomination.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Support per emerging consensus. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:10, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Austria
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename as proposed. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  23:12, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Rulers of Austria to Category:Monarchs of Austria
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2D List of monarchs of Austria, which I BOLDly renamed to prevent confusion with presidents and chancellors of the Austrian republics post-1918. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:36, 8 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename, per nom, or else to Category:Nobility of Austria. I am not entirely certain if counts and dukes should be under monarchs too. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename, per nom but we should also have Category:Nobility of Austria for barons etc. Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:55, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, though I expect that very few articles about Austrian barons exist. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:01, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 14:33, 19 April 2023 (UTC) Relisting comment: I am confused here. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep -- The term rulers is appropriately vague to cover archdukes and emperors. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:46, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Summary 3 people plus myself as nom are in favour. 1 opposed. 1 suggested a secondary option that nobody else favoured. (1 suggested creating a new separate category, which will not influence this nomination).
 * Score: 4 to 1 in favour of rename. @LaundryPizza03 does that clear things up for you? Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:11, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 11:13, 26 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:K-pop concert films
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Concert films and Category:Documentary films about K-pop and Category:K-pop concerts (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 19:43, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting k-pop concert films
 * Nominator's rationale: The concert films were moved into a created category named K-pop concert films, which I don't deem necessary just because it's in a different language. <b style="color:black; font-family:Garamond">Btspurplegalaxy</b> <b style="color:blue">💬</b> <b style="color:#9D9E9E">🖊️</b> 04:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * If not kept it should be merged to its parent categories rather than deleted. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:27, 21 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Hesse
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Nobility of Hesse. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  16:16, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Rulers of Hesse to Category:Monarchs of Hesse
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2D List of monarchs of Hesse, see precedents List of monarchs of Bavaria and List of monarchs of Württemberg. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:51, 8 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename, per nom, or else to Category:Nobility of Hesse. I am not entirely certain if counts and dukes should be under monarchs too. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:36, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak oppose There were many subdivisions of Hesse among second and third sons. Was each of these entities really sovereign? Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:17, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * there is no indication that they were subordinate to the elder brother, but formally they were all subordinate to the Holy Roman Emperor. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:51, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * What Marco says. Similarly, as I've said in a related CfR about Thuringia, there is a List of German monarchs in 1918, which indicates that Kings, Grand Dukes (including of the Grand Duchy of Hesse), Dukes and Princes can all be labelled 'monarchs', even though they were all subordinate to Wilhelm II, German Emperor. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:03, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The article Federal prince claims The [German Empire] was a federal state, with its constituent states remaining sovereign states. I find that somewhat doubtful; the whole idea of a federal state is that one gives up at least part of one's sovereignty to a supranational polity, which has control over matters such as defence and foreign policy. This is the case for the US (thus a federation), but not the EU (thus a confederation, although leaning towards federalism with ongoing integration). The Holy Roman Empire, especially after the Middle Ages, is best characterised as a confederation, while the German Empire is best considered a federation. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:13, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * All good observations. However, the Hessian state was broken into a multitude of minor states. It was only an undivided Hesse for a short period. So the scope should be limited to that time period and ought not to cover its offspring statelets. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:56, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * basically what you are saying is that Category:Landgraves of Hesse should not contain subcategories. I am not sure I would agree but in any case that is a separate discussion that can be held regardless of the this rename proposal. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:36, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I've stricken my oppose. But yes, "Landgraves of Hesse" is really the same as saying "Landgraves in Hesse" as there were only a few landgraves of the united entity. It would be like having a category "18th monarchs of Italy"; yes there were many monarchs in Italy but none of all Italy. A discussion for another day. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:53, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It's a good point for a future nomination indeed. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:28, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 14:21, 19 April 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:48, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep "Monarch" tends to refer to a king or emperor. They were princes of the Holy Roman Empire, which had constitutional institutions, but were largely self governing.  With the variety of titles used, I would suggest that "rulers" has an appropriate vagueness.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:40, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * There is a List of German monarchs in 1918, which indicates that Kings, Grand Dukes (including of the Grand Duchy of Hesse), Dukes and Princes can all be labelled 'monarchs', even though they were all subordinate to Wilhelm II, German Emperor. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:26, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:Nobility of Hesse per Marcocapelle.
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Balance so far 2 Rename to Category:Monarchs of Hesse (myself included), 1 primary and 1 secondary vote for Rename to Category:Nobility of Hesse, 1 Keep. As nom, "Nobility of Hesse" would not be my preference, but I would find it an acceptable alternative outcome. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:37, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: WP:SOVEREIGN "rulers" below the rank of king are still "monarchs": #5 European monarchs whose rank is below that of king (e.g., grand dukes, electors, dukes, princes), should be at the location "{Monarch's first name and ordinal}, {Title} of {Country}". Examples: Maximilian I, Elector of Bavaria, Jean, Grand Duke of Luxembourg. In several past and ongoing Rulers CfRs (including this one), the argument is made that e.g. "dukes" should not be categorised as "monarchs" because they are not "kings", but this guideline shows that they are "monarchs" nonetheless. I've also frequently invoked the fact that the List of German monarchs in 1918 identifies Emperors, Kings, Grand Dukes and Dukes as "monarchs", even though Grand Dukes and Dukes are below the royal level. This is not a valid argument to keep "rulers" in catnames. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:48, 5 May 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional heart attacks
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 6%23Category:Fictional heart attacks

Active shooter incidents in the United States
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 27%23Active shooter incidents in the United States

Mass shootings in Mexico by year
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 27%23Mass shootings in Mexico by year

Mass shootings in Canada by year
Relisted, see Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 27%23Mass shootings in Canada by year