Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 22

 &lt; April 21 April 23 &gt;

Category:Palestinians

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: speedy keep. Nominated by sockpuppet and no one supported a rename. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  22:51, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Palestinians to Category:Palestinian Arabs
 * Nominator's rationale: I suggest renaming the category 'Palestinians' to 'Palestinian Arabs' to make a clearer distinction between nationality and ethnicity categories. The term 'Palestinians' can be ambiguous as it refers to both. By using the term 'Palestinian Arabs', we can better differentiate between the two. Nagsb (talk) 22:09, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:11, 23 April 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:27, 23 April 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 12:51, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment The main article is Palestinians and the first sentence describes them as an "ethnonational group". (In contrast, Palestinian Arabs is a redirect to Palestinians.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 23:10, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose — Arabs are from Arabia. Palestinians are from Palestine. Also, Lebanese are from Lebanon and Egyptians are from Egypt. Genetics confirms it. That many speak a variant of Arabic-language is a result of historical conquest. Remember, Scots are not English. Also, Americans are not English and Australians are not English. That they mostly speak a variant of English-language is a result of historical conquest.
 * @William Allen Simpson for this meaning of the term Palestinians, Palestinians are from Palestine, i. e. nationals of the State of Palestine, we have . This category is for another meaning - for one specific ethnic group in the State of Palestine. This is exactly the confusion I was refering to. Nagsb (talk) 07:03, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Your edits to confine them to the State of Palestine have been reverted. The proper parent is Category:Palestine (region). Palestinian-Israelis exist. Also, Palestinians are in refugee camps in Lebanon and Jordan, and as diaspora around the world.
 * Now that you mention it, it would probably help if there was also a Category:People from Palestina (region) Category:People from Palestine (region) as a top category for all current and past people of various ethnicities in the region. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:19, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * There exists Category:Philistia with a main article. Also Category:Syria Palaestina with a main article. There isn't a Category:Palestina (region) (it seems to be covered by Palestine), but there currently exist Category:Roman roads in Syria and Palestina and Category:Women mayors of places in Palestina. All very small categories, variant spellings, and inconsistent naming with Roman Palestine.
 * Apologies for the typo. It is Category:Palestine (region) as you mentioned earlier yourself. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:00, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:27, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It is certainly confusing. We have Category:Palestinians, Category:Palestinian people and Category:People from the State of Palestine next to each other. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:11, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The first is the ethnicity, the second is the people set, and the third is by place, all pursuant to Categorization of people.
 * The three "Arab" subcategories of Category:Palestinians mainly contain biographies, should they then be moved to Category:Palestinian people? It is not a rethorical question, I am sincerely confused. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:42, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The naming is terrible. These really need to be split between people and topics.
 * There is no consistency between "Israeli Arab" and "Arab Israeli". Same with Bedouins and Druze.
 * Looking at the various subcategories, these are mixtures of Arabic-language with semitic peoples, not Arabs from Arabia per se. Apparently Egyptians call Bedouins "Arabs", but mean "nomads". The word "arab" doesn't even mean the same thing.
 * Ottomans weren't Arabs or semitic. It might be a good idea to follow the organization of Category:People from Ottoman Palestine.
 * The Mandatory Palestine tree is a mess. We can probably dispose of Category:Mixed communities in Mandatory Palestine; its only entry is Ashdod. Modern Ashdod was established in 1956. After Mandatory Palestine.
 * William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:35, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose nomination unless there is clear evidence that this is the common name for a specific group of people. In fact, if such evidence is available, it would be recommendable to write an article about the topic first. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:30, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Procedural close nominator User:Nagsb has been blocked as a sockpuppet.--User:Namiba 23:19, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * So strange. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:28, 26 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Kievan Rus' people

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:People from Kievan Rus'. (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:20, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Kievan Rus' people to Category:People from Kievan Rus'
 * Nominator's rationale: rename per the ending of Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_April_12. Presumably User:Laurel Lodged and User:Nederlandse Leeuw intended this category to be included in the nomination, but that did not actually happen. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:14, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:17, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support, I think all cats in should be renamed to "People from Foo". These are categories for peoples from locations that were at one point countries and not for nationals of former countries (then we would needed to include Diasporas by former countries as well) Nagsb (talk) 18:23, 22 April 2023 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:16, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support and I think that the suggestion by is also commendable. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:34, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, and strongly support renaming all cats in to "People from Foo" per series of precedents from the "People from the Russian Empire" CfR onwards (including "People from Austria-Hungary" etc.). Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment — I'd looked very carefully at exactly what had been agreed, since not everybody updated their older comments. This was mentioned, but the re-parent part of the nomination was never fixed.
 * Prefer Category:People of Kievan Rus', since we are not dealing (mainly) with expatriates. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:41, 30 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:16th-century Austrian literature

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  22:53, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting 16th-century austrian literature
 * Propose deleting 17th-century austrian literature
 * Propose deleting 18th-century austrian literature
 * Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Merging is not needed, the subcategory is already under appropriate parents. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:41, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support For the 16th-century Category, why is the (sole) poet Heinrich Vogtherr even categorised as Austrian? He only spent the last 2 years of his life there. He was a German national and arguably part of the HRE for all of his life. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:42, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I have recategorized the article. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:27, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 04:00, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Tornadoes by country

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  22:54, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Argentina to Category:Tornadoes in South America and Category:Weather events in Argentina
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Bangladesh to Category:Tornadoes in Asia and Category:Weather events in Bangladesh
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Brazil to Category:Tornadoes in South America and Category:Weather events in Brazil
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in China to Category:Tornadoes in Asia and Category:Weather events in China
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Cuba to Category:Tornadoes in North America and Category:Weather events in Cuba
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in the Czech Republic to Category:Tornadoes in Europe and Category:Weather events in the Czech Republic
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in France to Category:Tornadoes in Europe and Category:Weather events in France
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Germany to Category:Tornadoes in Europe and Category:Weather events in Germany
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Italy to Category:Tornadoes in Europe and Category:Weather events in Italy
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Malaysia to Category:Tornadoes in Asia and Category:Weather events in Malaysia
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Malta to Category:Tornadoes in Europe and Category:Weather events in Malta
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Nepal to Category:Tornadoes in Asia and Category:Weather events in Nepal
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in the Netherlands to Category:Tornadoes in Europe and Category:Weather events in the Netherlands
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Pakistan to Category:Tornadoes in Asia and Category:Weather events in Pakistan
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Poland to Category:Tornadoes in Europe and Category:Weather events in Poland
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Romania to Category:Tornadoes in Europe and Category:Weather events in Romania
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Russia to Category:Tornadoes in Europe and Category:Weather events in Russia
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in South Africa to Category:Tornadoes in Africa and Category:Weather events in South Africa
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Spain to Category:Tornadoes in Europe and Category:Weather events in Spain
 * Propose merging Category:Tornadoes in Ukraine to Category:Tornadoes in Europe and Category:Weather events in Ukraine
 * Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT. Not enough content in these countries. –Aidan721 (talk) 11:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Even the continent level may be unnecessary. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:57, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus' by title. WP:C2C parents Category:Nobles by country and title and Category:Kievan Rus'. No consensus for merging. This is a selective reading of the voluminous comments, amid objections to any reorganizing of the tree until the dust has settled. (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:15, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus to Category:Kievan Rus' people
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with one subcategory. If kept, rename to Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus' per WP:C2C. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:38, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Dust is settling. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:28, 22 April 2023 (UTC) William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:32, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support although a merge with Category:Princes in Rus' also seems fine. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:53, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I keep looking at this category tree and I can't make sense of it, especially the relationship between the terms 'nobles/nobility', 'princes of/in', 'royalty', and 'rulers of'. We are doing many simultaneous CfRs on Kievan Rus', all of which I support individually, but I'm kind of losing the bigger picture. I guess I'll just have to wait for the dust to settle. I think I'll wait with nominating more until the present ones have been completed. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:09, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Neutral as page creator. I created this due to it needing to be split from the noble titles category, and at the time there were a couple of subcategories which appear to have since been reorganised. --Paul_012 (talk) 01:44, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose I agree with - we wait for the dust to settle. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:39, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Not really yet. Target still needs to be renamed and Category:Princes in Rus' is still ongoing. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:17, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * does the target Category:Kievan Rus' people need to be renamed? It is not the subject of any other discussion as far as I am aware of. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:32, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Marcocapelle yes, per Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_April_12 it should be rename to People/Women from Kievan Rus' by agreement of nominator (Marcocapelle). (You didn't nominate it, but Laurel added it and you agreed to it). That hasn't happened yet. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:35, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * ok, so that discussion has been closed without anyone formally nominating Category:Kievan Rus' people. Can we now proceed with this discussion? (Of course when Category:Kievan Rus' people gets renamed to People from Kievan Rus' after all, earlier than this discussion is closed, then it still remains the proper merge target though under the new name.) Marcocapelle (talk) 18:10, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright then. I'll have another look at the category tree, hopefully I can make sense of it now. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:56, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Because Category:Kievan Rus' people was not nominated, this one had to be relisted to allow the dust to settle. Now it is nominated above, so the two nominations have to proceed together. It might have been better procedurally to wait a day.
 * Yes, that was part of the reason why I wanted to wait for the dust to settle. But when both of you pressed forward, I decided to go ahead and try to construct a proper category tree. And now I'm the one running too far ahead and not waiting for the dust to settle (whahaha!). Oh well. I'm sure we will all figure this out. I've learnt to cooperate with you for several months now, we are getting better at it. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:55, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

* People from Fooland (e.g. Category:People from Austria-Hungary, Category:Austrian people) ** Nobility of Fooland (e.g. Category:Nobility of Austria-Hungary, Category:Austrian nobility) *** Nobles of Fooland by title (diffuse, e.g. Category:Nobles of the Holy Roman Empire by title) **** Princes of/in Fooland (diffuse, e.g. Category:Princes of the Holy Roman Empire) ***** Princes of Barland (non-royalty individuals, e.g. Category:Princes of Bavaria; can have "Barian" or "Barland" in name) *** Royalty of Fooland (e.g. Category:Austrian royalty) **** Monarchs of Fooland (e.g. Category:Emperors of Austria; should have "Fooian" or "Fooland" in name) **** Princes of Fooland (individuals, e.g. Category:Austrian princes; should have "Fooian" or "Fooland" in name)) **** Princesses of Fooland (individuals, e.g. Category:Austrian princesses; should have "Fooian" or "Fooland" in name)) **** (Royal) consorts of Fooland (e.g. Category:Austrian royal consorts; should have "Fooian" or "Fooland" in name))
 * Suggested category tree for People from Kievan Rus'
 * (based on existing examples of Category:People from Austria-Hungary, Category:Austrian people, and Category:People from the Holy Roman Empire for comparison)

* People from Fooland (e.g. Category:People from Austria-Hungary, Category:Austrian people) ** People from Fooland by occupation (e.g. Category:People from the Austrian Empire by occupation, Category:Austrian people by occupation > Category:Austrian men by occupation) *** Monarchs of Fooland (e.g. Category:Emperors of Austria) *** Princes of Fooland (e.g. Category:Austrian princes) *** Princesses of Fooland? (e.g. Category:Austrian princesses is not in the people by occupation tree) *** (Royal) consorts of Fooland? (e.g. Category:Austrian royal consorts is not in the people by occupation tree)

* People from Kievan Rus' (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' people, currently in progress) ** Nobility of Kievan Rus' (currently doesn't exist; rename from Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus?) *** Nobles of Kievan Rus' by title (diffuse, currently doesn't exist; rename from Category:Noble titles of Kievan Rus?) **** Princes of/in Kievan Rus'? (diffuse; rename from Category:Princes in Rus', currently in progress) ***** Category:Princes of Pereyaslavl (non-royalty individuals) *** Royalty of Kievan Rus' (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' royalty) **** Category:Princes of Kiev ***** Grand Princes of Kiev **** Princes of Kievan Rus'? (individuals, should have "Kiev" or "Kievan Rus'" in name; can't think of any examples; should be different category than Princes of/in Kievan Rus'/diffuse) **** Princesses of Kievan Rus' (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' princesses; probably needs to be reorganised/purged, e.g. by creating siblingcat for consorts) **** Consorts of Kievan Rus'? (populate with people like Category:Wives of Vladimir the Great)

* People from Kievan Rus' (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' people, currently in progress) ** People from Kievan Rus' by occupation (currently doesn't exist) **** Category:Princes of Kiev ***** Grand Princes of Kiev *** Category:11th-century bishops in Kievan Rus' *** Category:Monks from Kievan Rus'‎ *** Princesses of Kievan Rus'? (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' princesses, see above) *** Consorts of Kievan Rus'? (see above) ** Category:Women from Kievan Rus' *** Category:Women from Kievan Rus' by century *** Nuns from Kievan Rus'‎ (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' nuns‎) *** Princesses of Kievan Rus' (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' princesses, see above) *** Consorts of Kievan Rus'? (see above)
 * please let me know what you think. I hope this makes clear why I couldn't make sense of the current category tree, which not only needs to have a couple of renamings and re-parentings, but also has Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus and Category:Princes in Rus' trying to do multiple jobs at once, and therefore failing at them. This is quite a complicated question to solve (which is why I wanted to wait for the dust to settle), but I think that now, using the existing (imperfect) examples, this is the most reasonable proposal I can currently offer. (Using indent seemed the best way to visualise this, please let me know if that's an issue). I hope we can find solutions to the remaining questions I have. Thanks in advance, and cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:34, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I’m not familiar with all of these, but to me plural Princes of Kievan Rus sounds like a set of individuals, while singular Prince of Kievan Rus is a topic about the title. —Michael Z. 23:40, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Good point. "Prince of Kievan Rus'" never existed as a title (which is why I had Category:Rulers of Kievan Rus' renamed to Category:Princes of Kiev, which did exist as a title). But maybe Prince in Kievan Rus' ("in" + singular) could play a role in this tree somewhere? E.g. should it take the place of **** Princes of/in Fooland (diffuse)? Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:59, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:32, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment — While it seems reasonable, my preference is that these had been nominated separately, instead of trying to cram too much general discussion into one place. You are not all computer or information scientists, but I've tried to give examples of careful nominations updating one part of tree at a time (usually bottom up instead of top down).
 * Agree with W.A. Simpson, this is too much to discuss at once. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:30, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, of course. I'm not saying we should agree on every part of this proposal right now, I'm just suggesting a general direction in which we could take this category tree. Each of them will still have to be discussed on a case-by-case basis (I've not nominated anything new).
 * Relevant to this CfM in particular, I would recommend renaming Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus to Category:Nobility of Kievan Rus' (per Category:Nobility of the Holy Roman Empire/Category:Nobility of Austria-Hungary), and making it a parent of Category:Noble titles of Kievan Rus (per Category:Nobles of the Holy Roman Empire by title).
 * We could then rename Category:Noble titles of Kievan Rus to Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus' by title (per Category:Nobles of the Holy Roman Empire by title, and per common parent Category:Nobles by country and title). It's now clear to me that the name of Category:Noble titles of Kievan Rus fits the other parent Category:Noble titles by country, but its contents do not; they fit the Category:Nobles by country and title tree. This is one of the reasons why the category tree is such a mess: Category:Noble titles of Kievan Rus tries to do 2 jobs at once, and thus fails at both. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:34, 24 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Heads of State of Estonia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Heads of state of Estonia. WP:C2C (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:26, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Heads of State of Estonia to Category:State Elders of Estonia
 * Alt rename to Category:Heads of state of Estonia; create new subcat Category:State Elders of Estonia
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2D main article State Elder of Estonia, which I moved per Talk:State Elder of Estonia that nobody had acted upon for 15 years, and because State Elder was used way more often in the main article itself than Head of State, and because Wikipedians don't see that 'Heads of State of Estonia' is a title rather than a position (a mistake I initially also made, because the only difference is that State is written with a capital S) by making Category:Presidents of Estonia a subcategory instead of a sibling. State Elder / Head of State and President are both titles for the position of a head of state. On an etymological note, en:wikt:vanem means (1) parent (2) elder, leader, chieftain, en:wikt:riik (genitive riigi) means (1) state, country, polity (2) government (mostly the Estonian government), so rather than "Head of State", it also makes more sense to translate Riigivanem as "State Elder" (or "State Parent"; note that "elders" in English originally meant "parents" or "ancestors", just like en:wikt:Eltern in German and en:wikt:ouders in Dutch still do). There is no Estonian equivalent meaning for "head" in vanem. Finally, see Elder (administrative title), where the meaning of elder in the sense of "older" or "oldest" is used, and vanem is also translated as "State Elder". Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 05:56, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Alt rename + new subcat rationale: in order to not leave a hole in the heads of state by country tree. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * PS: I intend to CfR Category:Rulers of Estonia for a rename to Category:Heads of state of Estonia (lowercase s) hereafter in order to correct the category trees, which are currently a mess exactly because people have been mistaking this category (failing to spot the capital S) for a generic function rather than a historic title that only existed between 1920 and 1937 and is now obsolete. (The renamed category might also include Category:Dukes of Estonia). But, one step at a time. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Alt rename to Category:Heads of state of Estonia in order to not leave a hole in the heads of state by country tree, and just create Category:State Elders of Estonia as a subcategory. Category:Rulers of Estonia can be nominated for downmerging afterwards. Same result, better sequential order. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:07, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * For procedural purposes, that might actually be a much better idea, yes. Thanks! Should we continue this CfR or withdraw it, just create that subcat, and then nom Rulers for downmerge? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:15, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Although, we would still need to get rid of the capital S. Better go for an Alt rename then yes. Just a minute... Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:28, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Marcocapelle Alt rename added, thanks again! Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:55, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Balance so far: 2 Alt rename + new subcat (myself included), no other votes. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:33, 29 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Oceanian rulers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 20:26, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Oceanian rulers to Category:Oceanian monarchs Category:Monarchs in Oceania
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT 1 C, 0 P. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 04:08, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Downmerge, redundant category layer. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:20, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Procedural problem We should perhaps await the outcome of the discussion here before engaging with this proposal. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:27, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * meaning here? – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:28, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:29, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * For merging we do not have to wait per se. If the other discussion closes as rename earlier than this discussion we can simply adapt the target here. If not, the merged Category:Oceanian monarchs should be nominated for renaming separately. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:00, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree with Marco. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:03, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Update: target Category:Oceanian monarchs has just been moved to Category:Monarchs in Oceania. Target has been amended accordingly; this won't affect the nomination. Pinging . Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:26, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support now that the procedural problem has been made moot. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:58, 10 May 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:South American rulers

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: Merge (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 20:26, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose downmerging Category:South American rulers to Category:South American monarchs Category:Monarchs in South America
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT 1 C, 0 P. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:58, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Downmerge, redundant category layer. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Procedural problem We should perhaps await the outcome of the discussion here before engaging with this proposal. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:32, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Same response as above: we don't have to wait for that outcome. The merge target can be updated as needed, the rationale remains the same. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:04, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Update: target Category:South American monarchs has just been moved to Category:Monarchs in South America. Target has been amended accordingly; this won't affect the nomination. Pinging . Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:25, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support now that the procedural problem has been made moot. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:57, 10 May 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Empresses and imperial consorts of Ethiopia

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Empresses consort of Ethiopia. WP:C2B and WP:C2C. (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:44, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Empresses and imperial consorts of Ethiopia to Category:Empresses consort of Ethiopia
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2B WP:C2C parent Category:Empresses consort. The only empress regnant of Ethiopia there has ever been is Zewditu, so we can take her out (she is already in Category:Empresses regnant). The only non-female imperial consort there has ever been is Zewditu's husband Gugsa Welle, who is currently not in the category. This clarifies, simplifies, and standardises the category's name, purposes and contents. In addition, parents Category:Rulers of Ethiopia and Category:Women rulers in Africa should be removed, as they do not apply to any category members (except Zewditu, whom I propose to remove). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:18, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Rename, remove two parents, and purge one article, it is more to the point to distinguish monarchs from consorts than to distinguish men royalty from women royalty. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:24, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Balance so far 2 Support Rename, remove two parents, and purge one article (myself included), 0 Oppose. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:08, 29 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Radio stations licensed before 1923 and still broadcasting

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) C LYDE   TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE  22:56, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting Category:Radio stations licensed before 1923 and still broadcasting
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:ARBITRARYCAT)
 * I read 1922 in radio, 1923 in radio, and 1924 in radio in vain trying to understand this seemingly arbitrary cutoff point. If this is deleted, we'll still have List of oldest radio stations. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Note When I went to tag the category, there were two hidden links (|1 and |2) both of which list the 100 oldest radio stations, which raises a WP:TOP10 issue. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:11, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, we already have the tree of Category:Radio stations by year of establishment for that. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:28, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. I suspect it may have something to do with copyright issues, as 1923 is significant in the history of U.S. copyright law, but it still doesn't seem to be a useful cat here. Perhaps it would be for Commons for PD purposes, but I don't know enough about it. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:51, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


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Category:Plants used in Ayurveda

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 22:48, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose Deleting Category:Plants used in Ayurveda
 * Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCASSOC similar to WP:PERFCAT)
 * Ayurveda is an alternative medicine system originating in India that recommends diets and herbs for health. Liquorice, Long pepper and Myrrh mention this association in passing while Aloe, Alfalfa and Rose don't mention it at all. The Clove article says that spice is used in pumpkin pies, curries, baked hams and cigarettes but we don't have categories for those uses because it would create clutter at the bottom of the article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:40, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:47, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.