Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 10

 &lt; August 9 August 11 &gt;

Category:Civil wars post-1945

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: split. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  20:58, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose splitting Category:Civil wars post-1945 to Category:Civil wars of the 20th century and Category:Civil wars of the 21st century
 * Nominator's rationale: split to align with common chronology, e.g. Category:20th-century conflicts and Category:21st-century conflicts. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:13, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Split per nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:58, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm, this is part of a series, Category:Warfare post-1945 succeeding Category:Warfare of the late modern period which "covers warfare in the Industrial era (roughly 1815 to 1945)." Consider 1945–2000? – Fayenatic  L ondon 08:22, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The late modern period goes until present so Category:Warfare post-1945 should be a subcategory of Category:Warfare of the late modern period rather than a successor. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:47, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, that may be wrongly named and structured, but the intention is a category for Industrial warfare which ended with the dawn of the atomic age. So a break at 1945 is still required. Ah, but perhaps not for civil wars, as they are non-nuclear? – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:49, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Exactly, for civil wars 1945 is an arbitrary break. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:52, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * As for Category:Warfare of the late modern period, the whole 20th century is in it, so I would suggest simply editing the header, to link to late modern period instead of to industrial era, and to move post-1945 and 21st century under it. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:58, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * OK for civil wars. But as for the parent, I suggest adding a subcat Category:Warfare of the Industrial era rather than ignoring or merging the period. – Fayenatic  L ondon 07:32, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * why so? We do not usually categorize by industrial era, undoubtedly because its beginning and end are rather fuzzy and dependent on which part of the world you are considering. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:00, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Germanic archaeological cultures
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 19%23Category:Germanic archaeological cultures

Category:Far-right terrorism

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 19:58, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Far-right terrorism to Category:Right-wing terrorism
 * Nominator's rationale: merge or reverse merge, Right-wing terrorism is also referred to as hard right terrorism, extreme right terrorism or far-right terrorism. Regardless the merge direction, I think the parent category should become Category:Far-right politics. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:25, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support: Right-wing terrorism is the main article for both, and the terms are essentially interchangeable. Terrorism is naturally extremist and at the "far" end of the political spectrum, so this part is implied in the base term of "right-wing terrorism". Agree with having Category:Far-right politics as the parent. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:28, 11 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge and overwrite new page at target name. – Fayenatic  L ondon 06:19, 13 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Italic archaeological cultures

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 ( d  c̄ ) 20:00, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting italic archaeological cultures
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING WP:ARBITRARYCAT WP:NPOV WP:OR. The question whether these archaeological cultures were "Italic", "Etruscan", "Celtic" a mix or something else is hotly contested, and many articles say so explicitly. Apennine culture states: In the 19th and early 20th centuries various theorists made various imputations of ethnicity concerning the Apennine culture. In the 20th century, the Italian scholar, Massimo Pallottino, who specialized in Etruscan civilization, rejected them as oversimple. At least with reference to Italy, he discarded Kossinna's Law, which states languages and ethnic groups are to be identified with archaeological groups. Therefore, Pallottino argued that terms such as "the Terramare culture" or "the Apennine culture" have no ethnic or linguistic significance. We also don't know whether the Venetic language was Italic, Celtic or something else. Even if we associate the Este culture with the Adriatic Veneti, we are no closer to saying whether it was "Italic". We shouldn't be categorising items by language family if we've got nothing but archaeological findings that point to multiple possibilities, which are explicitly admitted; that would be Wikipedia taking a POV on a contested issue. All items and subcategories are already in Category:Archaeological cultures in Italy, so no merger is needed. Follow-up to precedents named in Articles for deletion/List of Turkic dynasties and countries, as well as Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:14, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete, if only because it is not a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:29, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Baltic archaeological cultures
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 19%23Category:Baltic archaeological cultures

Category:Baseball players suspended for drug offenses
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 19%23Category:Baseball players suspended for drug offenses

Category:Turkic archeological cultures
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 20:02, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting turkic archeological cultures
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING WP:ARBITRARYCAT WP:NPOV WP:OR. It has only 1 item right now, called Kurumchi culture, the origins of which are widely disputed. They could be Turkic, they could be Mongolic, they could be Chinese, they could be Korean etc. or a mix. Kurumchi culture states: However their discovery outside of archaeological digs by non-professionals[26] and poor documentation by Petri made their specific cultural origins impossible to categorize.[75] We shouldn't be categorising items by language family if we've got nothing but archaeological findings that point to multiple possibilities are are literally said to be impossible to categorize; that would be Wikipedia taking a POV on a contested issue. This article is already in plenty of other categories which are defining enough: Category:Archaeological cultures of Northern Asia,Category:Early medieval archaeological cultures of Asia, Category:Archaeological cultures of Siberia, Category:Archaeological cultures in Russia, Category:History of Siberia, Category:National histories. We don't need a widely disputed "Turkic" category on top of that. Follow-up to precedents named in Articles for deletion/List of Turkic dynasties and countries, as well as Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:36, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:58, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Anti-communist terrorism
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 19%23Category:Anti-communist terrorism

Category:Christians by country
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Christian religious workers by country. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:09, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Christians by country to Category:Christians by country of work
 * Alt proposal 1: renaming Category:Christians by country to Category:Christians by occupation and country
 * Alt proposal 2: renaming Category:Christians by country to Category:Christian religious workers by country; re-parent to Category:Christian religious workers
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C recently renamed sibling Category:Sports coaches by country to Category:Sports coaches by country of work. Follow-up to Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2. For better distinction from Category:Christians by nationality. All people in these subcategories are either clergy / religious leaders / bishops, or they are missionaries by mission country (i.e. country of work, the country where they do their missionary activities). The only exception is Category:Christians in the Roman Empire, but that is due to the fact that that is currently a WP:CROSSCAT of the Category:People by nationalty, Category:People by period (parent Category:Ancient Christians) and Category:People by country trees. It needs purging anyway. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:20, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Alt proposal 1 rationale: We could also make Category:People by occupation and country (currently its sibling) its parent and instead make clear that this tree is about what jobs Christians do/did in countries other than the country of their nationality. This would avoid misunderstandings about what the tree is for. So a subcategory like Category:Christians in Peru could be renamed to Category:Christians by occupation in Peru. Note that the occupation in question must be an ecclesiastical one. We're not interested in, say, expatriate golfers living in Peru who also just so happen to be Christians; that would be WP:NONDEFINING. But for missionaries and bishops, their Christian religion does define their job. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:29, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Support renaming to Category:Christians by country per Sports coaches by country of work precedent. As you say, all members carry out their work in those countries which is often not the country of their birth. Missionary activity is more akin to carrying out "the Lord's work" than an occupation (i.e. paid employment). Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:47, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Alt 2 Category:Christian religious workers by country. As the intention is to limit this to religious workers the category name should reflect that. To be parented to Category:Christian religious workers. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:42, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That actually makes a lot of sense. I didn't know that category tree existed, but it's better than the two options I proposed. Edit: added Alt proposal 2 as an option to the nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:24, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Alt2 proposal, but I do encourage us to think thru other potential exceptions, like Category:Christians in the Roman Empire.Mason (talk) 19:38, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If we want that category to be about subjects of the Roman emperor instead of people who were just residing in the Empire and doing their jobs as missionaries or bishops, then we should rename it to Category:Christians from the Roman Empire per parent Category:People from the Roman Empire. I think that would be a better solution. I don't think there were lots of Christian missionaries coming from outside the boundaries of the Empire to convert Roman subjects to a religion which was generally banned and occasionally but not systematically persecuted.
 * Christianity emerged inside the Empire itself, amongst the Empire's Judean and Galilean subjects. The earliest Christian missionaries were apostles like Paul of Tarsus, living inside the Roman Empire (in his case as a citizen in Cilicia (Roman province), but most others in Galilee and Palestine probably were Roman subjects without Roman citizenship). The only place outside the Empire where I could imagine Christian missionaries to come from and convert Roman subjects would be Osrhoene or something, but I'm not counting on it. We better just change in to from, and take it out of this "people by country of work" tree. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:43, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. Alt 2 is superior. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:44, 11 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Olympic coaches by country
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Olympic coaches by country of work. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 20:08, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Olympic coaches by country to Category:Olympic coaches by country of work
 * Alt proposal: renaming Category:Olympic coaches by country to Category:Olympic coaches by country of service
 * Propose renaming Category:Sportspeople by country to Category:Sportspeople by country of work
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C recently renamed parent/sibling Category:Sports coaches by country to Category:Sports coaches by country of work. Follow-up to Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 2. For better distinction from Category:Sportspeople by nationality. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:01, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Support renaming to Category:Olympic coaches by country of work per Sports coaches by country of work precedent. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:48, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Whatever the outcome of this proposal, the same change (if any) should be done to Category:Paralympic coaches by country -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:54, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Concur. The same changes should be done to Paralympic coaches, as well as any similar child categories Category:Sports coaches by country of work Mason (talk) 19:55, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ukrainian culture by ethnicity
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 20:13, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose upmerging Category:Ukrainian culture by ethnicity to Category:Ukrainian culture, Category:Ethnic groups in Ukraine, and Category:Culture by ethnicity
 * Nominator's rationale: Redundant layer: 1 C, 0 P. Upmerge for now to all 3 parents. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:36, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory, but merge to Category:Ukrainian culture by ethnicity and Category:European culture by ethnic group. The content is already elsewhere in thd tree of Category:Ukrainian culture. but merge to Category:Ukrainian culture and Category:European culture by ethnic group. The content is already elsewhere in the tree of Category:Ethnic groups in Ukraine. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:49, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Wait, you want a category to merge into itself? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:20, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking. I even made two mistakes 😞 Marcocapelle (talk) 11:51, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries, I agree with your suggestion! Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:28, 13 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Celtic ethnic groups
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 * The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 20:10, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting celtic ethnic groups
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT WP:OR WP:CROSSCAT between Category:People by nationality and Category:People by ethnicity. Follow-up to:
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 9
 * Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_April_21
 * Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_July_22
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 13.
 * Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:32, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Support I was not entirely convinced by the rationale in the above discussions but we now have 4 solid precedents so let's just go with it. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:57, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. No objection to the category in principle, but the current content is very inaccurate. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:52, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Any articles that would qualify for this are probably better placed in Category:Historical Celtic peoples. Anything else is Celts (modern), and is essentially the sum of all individuals who self-identify as Celts, but not really an "ethnic group". E.g. Dutch band Rapalje singing in Dutch and English is grouped as "Celtic music", but it has nothing to do with the Celtic languages. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:02, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Update Articles for deletion/Lists of Celts closed as Delete as well. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:18, 13 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Modern Indo-European peoples
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d  c̄ ) 20:13, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose upmerging Category:Modern Indo-European peoples to Category:Indo-European peoples
 * Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT WP:CROSSCAT WP:OR. Follow-up to Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 22. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:21, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge, largely overlapping scope. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:56, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Nationalist terrorism in Europe
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 19%23Category:Nationalist terrorism in Europe

Category:Political violence in the Byzantine Empire
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 19%23Category:Political violence in the Byzantine Empire

Category:Nationalist terrorism
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 19%23Category:Nationalist terrorism

Category:Albums about the Moon
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 19%23Category:Albums about the Moon

Category:Arab nationalist terrorism in Israel
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 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Terrorist attacks carried out by Arab citizens of Israel. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:15, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose deleting arab nationalist terrorism in israel
 * Nominator's rationale: This is an insubstantial category with fewer than five categorized entries. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:30, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Size is not the issue here. The category may easily be populated with dozens of similar articles. The question is whether the category is desirable or not. This must have been discussed at length in a distant past. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:10, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Only now I see the point of the category, this is about acts by Israeli citizens of Arab ethnicity. Would it nevertheless be an option to merge the category to Category:Palestinian political violence rather than plain deletion? Marcocapelle (talk) 19:04, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge to Category:Palestinian political violence per Marcocapelle. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:49, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Since they are both individual incidents, the material most directly corresponds to Category:Terrorist attacks carried out by Arab citizens of Israel, where one is already listed, so if a merge anywhere is preferable for procedural reasons then the best target for the merger would be to there. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:58, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is the better merge target. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:02, 11 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Health and disability rights organizations in the United Kingdom
Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 August 19%23Category:Health and disability rights organizations in the United Kingdom

Category:Geographic history of Czechoslovakia
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:17, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Geographic history of Czechoslovakia to Category:Geography of Czechoslovakia
 * Nominator's rationale: merge, all of Czechoslovakia's geography is meanwhile history, so we do not need two categories, and there is no Category:Geographic history by former country. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:05, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge per nom. Something like "geologic history" would perhaps have made sense, but not "geographic history". Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:18, 11 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Springfield College (Massachusetts)
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 * The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:17, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose renaming Category:Springfield College (Massachusetts) to Category:Springfield College
 * Nominator's rationale: Springfield College (Massachusetts) redirects to Springfield College; category name should match article name per WP:C2D Joeykai (talk) 03:26, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Speedy rename this as well as Category:Springfield College (Massachusetts) faculty--User:Namiba 13:58, 17 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Non-binary people by occupation
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 * The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure)  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:18, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Propose merging Category:Belgian non-binary people by occupation to Category:Belgian non-binary people
 * Propose merging Category:Indian non-binary people by occupation to Category:Indian non-binary people
 * Propose merging Category:Kenyan non-binary people by occupation to Category:Kenyan non-binary people
 * Propose merging Category:Brazilian non-binary people by occupation to Category:Brazilian non-binary people
 * Nominator's rationale: Only has one category in it, that could easily fit into Indian non-binary people, etc. Mason (talk) 01:14, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge per WP:SMALLCAT. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 03:18, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory each. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:08, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Upmerge for now without prejudice against recreation (WPAR). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:16, 11 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.